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  1. #241
    The only way to make the old system not suck, short of redesigning it - is to make people unable to do premades and dodge, sadly I don't see how thats possible.

    Unless you run in your factions current top premade, which will farm 10-12 hours each day/everyday, you won't have a chance of getting HWL.

    Kinda sucks, but that's classic for ya.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Nah, the problem is people do not understand how terrible Vanilla was, and their experience is tinted behind rose glasses literally.

    Its not 2005, where all the info is hidden inside elitistjerks for Ion and 50-100 top guilds and a few hundred more players to discuss their manual finds about how things worked.

    People do not understand the difference on how some people experienced Vanilla, and how Vanilla really worked.
    People are playing it right now. WAKE UP!
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  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilz View Post
    Only change I want to see is Blizzard monitoring people grinding towards Rank 14 and banning the fuckers that account share. Ban them for a month and strip them of all ranks.
    So just invite my brother in law over to my house so Blizzard can't see shit?
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    People are playing it right now. WAKE UP!
    And? Not even sure what your quote is.

    We are talking about ranking mafia and how all "these people that are playing it right now" according to you are gonna affect the grinding.

    Its not 2005 where 80% of the server was still trying to figure out how to equip their weapon and finish leveling in August 2005.

    Its 2019, people know where the items are and how to get them, its not gonna be 1 good guild, 2 decent guilds and 1 premade ranking group for the first 6 months dominating the server.

    And for people "playing it right now" doesnt tell me anything, the majority of private servers is people that cant afford retail WoW cause shitty country, aka South America/Eastern Europe or more like ex-USSR, its not like they can magically afford 13e/month because Classic will release.

    And devs already stated, the values in the private servers about everything is so wrong to laughable levels, even the famous Nostralius.
    Last edited by potis; 2019-04-14 at 03:24 AM.

  5. #245
    The Lightbringer crakerjack's Avatar
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    Yea I have no intention of doing those long grinds again. I think they have every right to remain in the game since that's how vanilla was, but it really is an absurd grind. I'll definitely PvP and get a decent rank, but I ain't pushing Marshal or Grand Marshal, screw that.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  6. #246
    Dreadlord Bethrezen's Avatar
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    #NoChanges

    Don't like it? Don't play it then. R14 is not for everyone.

  7. #247
    Testimonial of a former R14:cesspit.net/drupal/node/1001/.

    As of November 15th, 2005, I have successfully attained the rank of Grand Marshal (rank 14) on my Alliance Paladin. I have been PVPing, first part time then full time, since the honor system came out. I ramped up the amount of participation I had in the system as my rank advanced. I did stall at Knight-Captain (rank 8) for about six weeks after the battlegrounds came out as I focused more on Alterac Valley than the more honor rewarding Warsong Gulch.
    It took a lot of things to get where I am. It took the cooperation of a good group, the understanding of players who were willing to scale back their earnings to allow me to surpass them, and the understanding / support of my guild. I would be the ‘success story’ of the PVP / Honor system it seems.
    I can unequivocally state that I will never participate in the Honor system ever again. Even if the expansion does not reward former rank 14 players with the level 70 rewards, I will not compete to achieve new versions of the gear I have gained. The system itself is flawed, and in my opinion it is best if people do not get involved in it in. If I had known the real investment needed to advance when I started, I never would have gotten into it.
    It is easy to sit back and criticize the choices that GM/HW characters have made when they talk about how much they have had to work to get where they are. The most common statement that the uninformed make is ‘it was your choice, and you should have just stopped,’ or some iteration thereof. I can state that it is not that easy.
    There is something called the ‘Dollar Auction’ (sometimes called an ‘American Auction’), commonly used by charities, where when auctioning off an item (or, originally, simply a dollar bill) that the second place bidder must also pay what they bid, but do not receive anything in return. It is extremely common in auctions such as this for bidding to reach a rather silly level (an example is $20 for a standard $1 bill) due to whoever is currently in second place now having invested too much to lose what they are putting down on the table without getting something back. Psychological phenomena prevents the average human being from walking away when there is still a chance of receive some return on investment. Companies around the world continue to pour millions into failing divisions and projects due to the same psychological hurdle.
    The honor system plays off this same affect, leaving those who don’t achieve the GM/HW titles with, literally, hundreds of man hours invested with no return. The frustration that this can cause leads to people pushing harder than is healthy to finally get something out of the system. This is where we hear the stories of people sleeping 4-5 hours a day, and then spending all day in the system taking breaks only to eat and use the restroom. Beyond even that, you have people who have their characters played in shifts so that they can have some semblance of a life.
    I know people who have spent vacation days from their real life job in an effort to push hard for a next rank or complete the final weeks of the rank 13 to rank 14 transition. I have done it myself, taking four days off of work (November 7 – 10, 2005), so that I could guarantee myself the extra points so that I did not have to continue competing the week of November 15 – 21, 2005.
    Even on a ‘soft’ server like Argent Dawn, where the competition is nowhere near as steep as the PVP servers such as Blackrock, Shattered Hand, or Archimonde, those that have achieved rank 14 have at times succumbed to exhaustion, psychological burnout, and general malaise in regards to the game. The system creates a burnout or shell shock affect in the players that participate in it, causing them to cut back on or cease playing the game entirely. In effect, this system can cost Blizzard customers just as constant overtime can cost a company an employee. Anecdotally, many different players on the Blizzard forums report that the rank 14s on their servers all but vanish after achieving their ranks.
    There are many achievement oriented people that play MMORPGs, and that is precisely who the Honor system is attempting to hook into participating. Just as the game itself is potentially psychologically addicting (just like a gambler’s addiction, which is very real), the Honor system is even more so. The need to get to that next hurdle or accomplishment to prove to oneself that one is progressing can be extremely strong. This type of compulsion will not show up in everyone, but that is simply due to the fact that every person is different. What affects one person mentally is not guaranteed to work on another. This can lead to decisions that adversely affect the self, just like a gambling addict that sells his car for money to take to a casino.
    In summary, I find that the Honor system is not something that is either healthy or constructive. Blizzard has created a system that people can abuse themselves with, and should make changes to it so that the intensive, consecutive time requirements currently in the system are no longer the case. This would be both to show care for their PVP oriented populace, and to retain the customers that often quit after either finishing or no longer wishing to participate in the system. Compete at your own risk.

    This system is crap and its unethical game design putting something this unhealthy out there. R14 should not be free, it should be extremely rare and hard to get, but it should not be life destroying and toxic which it really was. Its not even about being good or simply working really hard. Its about doing underhanded shit like account sharing and dodging premades to get ahead.

    The best thing blizz can do is quietly soften the system a little bit and then ignore anyone whining about changes.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    The best thing blizz can do is quietly soften the system a little bit and then ignore anyone whining about changes.
    Sure thing! And we all go back to private servers asap...
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    Sure thing! And we all go back to private servers asap...
    Lol yeah right, less than 0.1% would go back to private servers over that, and who cares about those really. It'll be a few thousand nuts out of like 4 million that'll try classic once it comes out. Most original vanilla players would agree since the system is shite and 99.9% of the people wouldn't know or care if they made the bracket 0.5% instead of 0.3% or something.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    It rewards people who play 20 hours a day
    The system doesnt directly reward you for playing 20 hours a day, it rewards the player that accumilated the most Honor, unfortunatly that means that to get the most amount of honor it rewards the player to play for the majority every day in the week.
    If everyone just played 10 battlegrounds per week, then someone who tried to rank up, they'd only need to play 11 battlegrounds. It's an arms race to get the most Honor in a week. It's not a set amount of play time for over months.

    The system would be fine if players would play a health amount. But players insists to play unhealthy amount and gets rewarded for it. I am for the having the system in the game, because the world would be less filled with the "Red = Dead"-people whenever im out in the world doing things.

  11. #251
    The Patient Whistl3r's Avatar
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    If they were making a new game then this post may have some relevance and some legs but they're not, they're remaking classic.

  12. #252
    Hello!
    How do you like this idea? we leave the old pvp ranking system, etc. but we divide items between ranks, say, from 11 to 14, and the weapon will be available only for the 14th rank, if you got a weapon from pve, you will not need to try grind HWL and leave it to people who have free time / goal / honor and etc.

  13. #253
    Wake up!

    Rated battlegrounds is the only solution.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Cassyx View Post
    Hello!
    How do you like this idea? we leave the old pvp ranking system, etc. but we divide items between ranks, say, from 11 to 14, and the weapon will be available only for the 14th rank, if you got a weapon from pve, you will not need to try grind HWL and leave it to people who have free time / goal / honor and etc.
    So no change then?

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Yep, heres the "No changes" brigade, who rather say the phrase no changes than use their critical thinking skills for literally 30 seconds to realize how awful this system is.

    I look forward to vanilla servers 2.0 when they inevitably make no brainer changes. It happened to Everquests servers, its gonna happen here.

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    Thinking "no changes" is a better stance than changing this hilariously awful system, is hilarious.

    I swear "no changes" is the next "believe women". Its a catchy little saying that sounds good on its face, but upon inspection has fatal flaws. The small minded love their catchy little sayings.
    I have very little interest in playing classic as I already went through it the first time around but I honestly want them to implement the vanilla PVP system just to show the idiots in here that think it is a good idea how truly terrible the old system was. Bring on the tears.

  16. #256
    The crying for classic servers has been going on for years. Now when its finally close, threads like this pops up.

    No shit the honor system back then was horrid and bad. It required nolifing it. Thats how it was back then.

    In all of the "I want classic now because X/Y" threads over the years, only the good stuff is brought up. Theres lots of sucky shit in classic that more and more people will discover they had forgotten. After that, this forum will be filled with crying and moaning. Because after all, those who enjoy the game will, you know, spend theyre time playing the game.


    I see no reason whatsoever for Blizzard to change the pvp honor grind system. This was the system they had back then, this is the system we should get when they release classic once again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarnaxxx View Post
    I have very little interest in playing classic as I already went through it the first time around but I honestly want them to implement the vanilla PVP system just to show the idiots in here that think it is a good idea how truly terrible the old system was. Bring on the tears.
    Once the pvp honor system has been going for a bit, the crying of the forums will be huge. People are used to getting everything without having to nolife stuff.

    I will play classic again, but I dont care much about the pvp honor system. I'll do pvp for the fun of it, dont care about the rank. But I know alot of people will.

  17. #257
    It was awful because it was open to scamms (people in your team could start killing mobs awarding dishonorable kills to sabotage you).
    It was awful because it was encouraging account sharing.

    It was not awful for the time you had to invest towards reaching tier 14
    It was not awful for having only 0,1% of the pvpers getting the highest rank!

    In the end though it was Vanilla, and since each of us has a different set of preferences regarding potential changes, i would rather have no changes at all, than having my Vanilla turned into Chocolate!

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulatomten View Post
    So no change then?
    Ye my bad, i actualy tought u get hwl gear only for 14 rank, shuld google it before post, but still they can spred gear for lower ranks, not like all gear for lower ranks but 1 by 1 pice per rank and strat give like 1 epic pice from rank 8, but now , mostly is just my subjective tought, sry xD

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Anyone have an argument why this system is not embarrassingly awful?
    A lot of the vanilla stuff was embarrassingly awful. Since people asked to play classic I think they should get what they asked for. The full monty sort of speak. I think the people who have been crying for classic all these years deserve to get the real classic and nothing less.

    I am already sad that the loot system will have the 2h grace window which in turn will remove a lot of the real classic experience from players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Theres lots of sucky shit in classic that more and more people will discover they had forgotten. After that, this forum will be filled with crying and moaning.
    That moment when you are in Darnassus with no HS and realize that you have to go to tanaris and you are lvl 35 with no fly paths. I mean yeah in 2004 that was "the RPG journey etc" but for the modern wow player I think thats the sudden and abrupt end to all those pretentious callings about "letting us have classic back".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethrezen View Post
    #NoChanges

    Don't like it? Don't play it then. R14 is not for everyone.
    Actually it was, I traded it over 10 times to friends and we controlled who gets it and who doesn't. Don't lie to people.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    A lot of the vanilla stuff was embarrassingly awful. Since people asked to play classic I think they should get what they asked for. The full monty sort of speak. I think the people who have been crying for classic all these years deserve to get the real classic and nothing less.

    I am already sad that the loot system will have the 2h grace window which in turn will remove a lot of the real classic experience from players.

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    That moment when you are in Darnassus with no HS and realize that you have to go to tanaris and you are lvl 35 with no fly paths. I mean yeah in 2004 that was "the RPG journey etc" but for the modern wow player I think thats the sudden and abrupt end to all those pretentious callings about "letting us have classic back".

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    Actually it was, I traded it over 10 times to friends and we controlled who gets it and who doesn't. Don't lie to people.
    haha oh yes! Spend your whole evening walking down to tanaris. Theres many, many weird stuff in classic that will surprise alot of people. It will be interesting to see how the community really reacts to it all. One thing is to discuss it, talk about it and dream about it. Its very different to actually play it and experience this every day.

    Especially in a time were the battle for gamers time is bigger than ever.

    Dont get me wrong - I'll play classic when it launches, but I wont no life it. I'll probably spend forever reaching max lvl, if ever. I still remember the bad stuff and im not really sure how I will react when faced with them in game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassyx View Post
    Hello!
    How do you like this idea? we leave the old pvp ranking system, etc. but we divide items between ranks, say, from 11 to 14, and the weapon will be available only for the 14th rank, if you got a weapon from pve, you will not need to try grind HWL and leave it to people who have free time / goal / honor and etc.
    No. This pvp system was what we had back then, it should be in classic now to. If they change this, its a short trip to LFD and much more. Bring on the wow classic world as it was back then, if not, they should not even bother releasing it.

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