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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Yep, heres the "No changes" brigade, who rather say the phrase no changes than use their critical thinking skills for literally 30 seconds to realize how awful this system is.

    I look forward to vanilla servers 2.0 when they inevitably make no brainer changes. It happened to Everquests servers, its gonna happen here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thinking "no changes" is a better stance than changing this hilariously awful system, is hilarious.

    I swear "no changes" is the next "believe women". Its a catchy little saying that sounds good on its face, but upon inspection has fatal flaws. The small minded love their catchy little sayings.
    For years I have told people that Vanilla isn't all its made out to be. It had a lot of dumb and outright bad systems like the original honor system.
    But nope, people wanted Vanilla.
    Well then let them have Vanilla. The real Vanilla.

    If they like it thats great, enjoy.
    If not, I'll be right here thinking "I told you so".
    Last edited by Gorsameth; 2019-04-15 at 02:18 PM.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    This system is crap and its unethical game design putting something this unhealthy out there. R14 should not be free, it should be extremely rare and hard to get, but it should not be life destroying and toxic which it really was. Its not even about being good or simply working really hard. Its about doing underhanded shit like account sharing and dodging premades to get ahead.

    The best thing blizz can do is quietly soften the system a little bit and then ignore anyone whining about changes.
    The only thing they can do with this crap system is to stop the reduction of honor bar gained every reset if someone doesn't play. The vanilla grind was insane. I managed it because I had RL friends and we also played premade so eventually we all got it by exchanging the rank between us but was it healthy? No fucking way it wasn't.

    Not to mention that for quite sometime even if you reached R14 you couldn't retain the title achieved and so I had to re-run this crap for a second time to hold the title once a patch came that allowed you to keep the title of the highest rank achieved.

    Still I think that because the mind of many is bloated with illusions of how superb wow was back then, they should really have this system to understand how bad many things were.

    I don't say this in a vindictive manner but Im tired of all the clueless smartasses out there who glorify a game they didnt play as the complete pinnacle of wow.

  3. #263
    [QUOTE=Motorman;51075978]A lot of the vanilla stuff was embarrassingly awful. Since people asked to play classic I think they should get what they asked for. The full monty sort of speak. I think the people who have been crying for classic all these years deserve to get the real classic and nothing less.

    I am already sad that the loot system will have the 2h grace window which in turn will remove a lot of the real classic experience from players.

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    That moment when you are in Darnassus with no HS and realize that you have to go to tanaris and you are lvl 35 with no fly paths. I mean yeah in 2004 that was "the RPG journey etc" but for the modern wow player I think thats the sudden and abrupt end to all those pretentious callings about "letting us have classic back".

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    I Really dont get this bad feeling of journey .. yes if you want to get some where you walk its RPG game this is what it was always supposed to be.
    Get there you get the flight path GG problem solved for the rest of the times you need to go there.

    Role Playing Games are all about the world about dying while going somewhere or just exploring some areas EG-Whitcher/Elder Scrools ...
    If you want to play instant end game games then there are planty of non RPG games like LoL or Dota etc.

    I am waiting for a good RPG experience, love the feeling of seeing someone that has sulf hammer and realizing how much time he spent on it and how lifless he is for having a rank 14 Weapon.

    This is what missing from the MMORPG's this days the sense of getting an epic and it meant something, sense of killing Ragnaros and not killing rangnaros with 7 different difficulties doing the same dungeon on 19 levels..... either your guild can kill Onyxia or it cant ...
    Everyone on retail killed Jaina on LFR but still killed her so where is the achievement in that ? its just not RPG anymore

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    that was only possible before battlegrounds were released

    back then you were forced to solo or you would end up with less honor

    battlegrounds will be in from the start from what i understand so there is no chance of any solo player
    They did not mention playing solo. But having to play almost 24/7 is exactly how it'll be.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    The old highwarlord grind system is incredibly dumb. It rewards people who play 20 hours a day, and/or account share. Its an objectively bad system. And a perfect example of one of the things they should of changed for these servers.

    I know they are scared of opening pandoras box in regards to changes, but this one was a no brainer. Huge mistake.

    Anyone have an argument why this system is not embarrassingly awful?
    It's not a mistake, the goal is to have vanilla like it was, so if it's different THEN that's a huge mistake. Doing something you don't want is not a mistake, be cause what you want does not matter.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    what are you talking about? people did not afk in battlegrounds like AV because they were earning honor from it that would be a retarded way to earn honor

    people afked in battlegrounds like AV because they lasted hours and needed breaks

    when AV was first released level 1 characters could enter as well
    Sorry but I did. I used Autohotkey to be afk as an Alliance in the tower at the Alliance bridge. The battle would go on forever at that bridge, so I could farm honor and reputation for hours. It was mainly for the reputation though.

    Stop speaking for everyone else, please.

  7. #267
    [QUOTE=PavelGolub;51076015]
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    A lot of the vanilla stuff was embarrassingly awful. Since people asked to play classic I think they should get what they asked for. The full monty sort of speak. I think the people who have been crying for classic all these years deserve to get the real classic and nothing less.

    I am already sad that the loot system will have the 2h grace window which in turn will remove a lot of the real classic experience from players.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That moment when you are in Darnassus with no HS and realize that you have to go to tanaris and you are lvl 35 with no fly paths. I mean yeah in 2004 that was "the RPG journey etc" but for the modern wow player I think thats the sudden and abrupt end to all those pretentious callings about "letting us have classic back".

    - - - Updated - - -


    I Really dont get this bad feeling of journey .. yes if you want to get some where you walk its RPG game this is what it was always supposed to be.
    Get there you get the flight path GG problem solved for the rest of the times you need to go there.

    Role Playing Games are all about the world about dying while going somewhere or just exploring some areas EG-Whitcher/Elder Scrools ...
    If you want to play instant end game games then there are planty of non RPG games like LoL or Dota etc.

    I am waiting for a good RPG experience, love the feeling of seeing someone that has sulf hammer and realizing how much time he spent on it and how lifless he is for having a rank 14 Weapon.

    This is what missing from the MMORPG's this days the sense of getting an epic and it meant something, sense of killing Ragnaros and not killing rangnaros with 7 different difficulties doing the same dungeon on 19 levels..... either your guild can kill Onyxia or it cant ...
    Everyone on retail killed Jaina on LFR but still killed her so where is the achievement in that ? its just not RPG anymore
    I agree with you, but classic wow does not really fit the "go out in the world, explore and see what you find". The zones in the whole game is level based, meaning you cant go everywhere and play as lets say a lvl 26. There are certain zones for you to play in. If you travel to the wrong zones, you will just die without ever achiving anything. Or zones with mobs that are grey, giving you no XP. So if you are in Darnassus and must get to Tanaris, theres lots of zones you just gotta run through. Sure at lvl 60 you can go anywhere and do anything, but then again, low lvl zones and mobs wont be a challenge at all.

  8. #268
    [QUOTE=crusadernero;51076053]
    Quote Originally Posted by PavelGolub View Post

    I agree with you, but classic wow does not really fit the "go out in the world, explore and see what you find". The zones in the whole game is level based, meaning you cant go everywhere and play as lets say a lvl 26. There are certain zones for you to play in. If you travel to the wrong zones, you will just die without ever achiving anything. Or zones with mobs that are grey, giving you no XP. So if you are in Darnassus and must get to Tanaris, theres lots of zones you just gotta run through. Sure at lvl 60 you can go anywhere and do anything, but then again, low lvl zones and mobs wont be a challenge at all.
    Which is the essence of RPG game , you cant beat mobs lvl 50 when you are 20 and the zones doesn't scale.
    Either you are strong enough or not , want to do a 25 quest at lvl 20 find a group = RPG elements.

    The traveling through dangerous zones is part of it too , be smarter with planing your lvling path if this is what you are so scared of this run from SW to Tanaris.
    People like instant gratification this days and that's why RPG elements disappear.

    Runing through Wetlands at lvl 12 to get to dark shore is dangerous because of your choice instead of buying a portal from a mage.

    Yes some zeons become grey because you are getting stronger and progressing so you can go back and do it alot easier for reputation or gold at level 60 and you get rewarded with money and rep instead of XP for "helping the struggling village".

    Anyway we are basically saying the same thing.
    I dont care if its wow Classic or some other game that has it right the RPG elements and not some generic 25 levels kind of do the same crap with a mob with different skill to get X ilvl more.

    Either you can slay the dragon and get your T2 helmet or go back to dungeons until you can. "ONE BOSS TO RULE THEM ALL"
    Last edited by PavelGolub; 2019-04-15 at 03:09 PM.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    haha oh yes! Spend your whole evening walking down to tanaris.
    OFFTOPIC
    Or just take the boat to Menethil, then Boat to Theramore and take 10 minuites swimming/walking down the coast. . . Teldrassil to Tanaris is max 25 minutes journey even with no flying. . .

    I get the point he was trying to make but he picked a terrible example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I don't say this in a vindictive manner but Im tired of all the clueless smartasses out there who glorify a game they didnt play as the complete pinnacle of wow.
    As someone who sounds like they have been a part of a ranking group back in 2005/6; are you aware of how they have developed in the pirate server scene? The idea of a community effort to coordinate ranking so that there is minimal "wasted effort" involved for the rankers does sound great on paper, people working together etc. but because of hte effort and time investment involved, people are a lot more ... underhand (frankly) in how they go about ensuring this. And most of that has absolutely nothing to do with playing PvP, which would be pretty much "anything goes". But when it invovles heavy cross faction collusion and server blacklisting just because someone has a lot of free time and wants to PvP a lot with it. . . it goes beyond a community effort into something more toxic. I'd be interested to ehar your thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
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    Trebuchets new meta.

  10. #270
    [QUOTE=PavelGolub;51076147]
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post

    Which is the essence of RPG game , you cant beat mobs lvl 50 when you are 20 and the zones doesn't scale.
    Either you are strong enough or not , want to do a 25 quest at lvl 20 find a group = RPG elements.

    The traveling through dangerous zones is part of it too , be smarter with planing your lvling path if this is what you are so scared of this run from SW to Tanaris.
    People like instant gratification this days and that's why RPG elements disappear.

    Runing through Wetlands at lvl 12 to get to dark shore is dangerous because of your choice instead of buying a portal from a mage.

    Yes some zeons become grey because you are getting stronger and progressing so you can go back and do it alot easier for reputation or gold at level 60 and you get rewarded with money and rep instead of XP for "helping the struggling village".

    Anyway we are basically saying the same thing.
    I dont care if its wow Classic or some other game that has it right the RPG elements and not some generic 25 levels kind of do the same crap with a mob with different skill to get X ilvl more.

    Either you can slay the dragon and get your T2 helmet or go back to dungeons until you can. "ONE BOSS TO RULE THEM ALL"
    As you said, I agree with you. People just forget alot of things regarding classic. This is one important aspect I think alot of people forget.

    Personally cant wait for classic

  11. #271
    No sugar free vanilla here! It comes along with all the fat boy/girl diabetes inducing goodness you loved to hate!

  12. #272
    The Lightbringer Daish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomgan View Post
    Sorry but I did. I used Autohotkey to be afk as an Alliance in the tower at the Alliance bridge. The battle would go on forever at that bridge, so I could farm honor and reputation for hours. It was mainly for the reputation though.

    Stop speaking for everyone else, please.

    that amount of honor was "insignificant"

    /ɪnsɪɡˈnɪfɪk(ə)nt/
    adjective
    1.
    too small or unimportant to be worth consideration.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    that amount of honor was "insignificant"

    /ɪnsɪɡˈnɪfɪk(ə)nt/
    adjective
    1.
    too small or unimportant to be worth consideration.
    But I still did it, and you stated it as fact that people only went afk in AV to take a break. I could quote the definition of "fact", but that would be rude, so I would never do that.

    It may be insignificant to you, but it was better than being offline and earning no honor at all.

  14. #274
    The Lightbringer Daish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomgan View Post
    But I still did it, and you stated it as fact that people only went afk in AV to take a break. I could quote the definition of "fact", but that would be rude, so I would never do that.

    It may be insignificant to you, but it was better than being offline and earning no honor at all.
    honor had no fixed value it was based on the standing you reached that week............

    you were earning nothing

  15. #275
    The Patient neik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    It rewards people who play 20 hours a day
    Aye lmao.

    #Nochanges

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    As someone who sounds like they have been a part of a ranking group back in 2005/6; are you aware of how they have developed in the pirate server scene? The idea of a community effort to coordinate ranking so that there is minimal "wasted effort" involved for the rankers does sound great on paper, people working together etc. but because of hte effort and time investment involved, people are a lot more ... underhand (frankly) in how they go about ensuring this. And most of that has absolutely nothing to do with playing PvP, which would be pretty much "anything goes". But when it invovles heavy cross faction collusion and server blacklisting just because someone has a lot of free time and wants to PvP a lot with it. . . it goes beyond a community effort into something more toxic. I'd be interested to ehar your thoughts.
    Hi there. I believe every "only one may rise" scenario is inherently toxic in the end. The way we did it back in the days was that we had a pact: RL friends playing together with an agreement that we will be the same 10-11-12 (we never went over that number and only played WSG) that will eventually get to R14 one week each and then whoever got it would step back for the next one (play less hours pass the spot to a new guy etc).

    I believe that it all went to hell for us when blizzard said that "you can retain your biggest title if you had that title on date XX/XX/XX". Now thats where me and some other people who wanted to retain R14 for the future started the blind pushing (I became Grand Marshal quite a few times over the years but back then I was being proactive) so thats where it all started to be "toxic" because many of us where pushing for the R14 at the same time.

    Its a very bad system no question about it. It will be next to impossible to grind if it stays this way.

    Please allow me to also say this: We grinded R14 because we was more or less a steamrolling train that was utilizing addons/ventrillo and very good organization back then with stable connections etc.

    Needless to say the play scene of 2004-2006 was very basic our opponents were mostly no match for our organized group that was doing WSG and WSG only. Also do note that back in the days rogue ninja caps could end a WSG in a matter of minutes.

    So there you have it in a nutshell. Do I think/feel that modern playerbase can work toward that goal? Its an exercise in futility and rightfully so. We are not in the era of cannon fodder players/soldiers etc. So its not easy to convince worthy players with their own history in life and game to play as mere soldiers for someone else.

    Personally regardless of my "keep it original" sentiment, I think that pvp ranking should at the very least not have deteriorating honor for people who don't play. Let everyone reach R14 after all that grind they will certainly deserve it.

  17. #277
    Merely a Setback Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    The old highwarlord grind system is incredibly dumb. It rewards people who play 20 hours a day, and/or account share. Its an objectively bad system. And a perfect example of one of the things they should of changed for these servers.

    I know they are scared of opening pandoras box in regards to changes, but this one was a no brainer. Huge mistake.

    Anyone have an argument why this system is not embarrassingly awful?
    People wanted it
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    People wanted it
    Yeah people have been wanting Vanilla back because of the old pvp system for more than 10 years now.

    ...

  19. #279
    Merely a Setback Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    Yeah people have been wanting Vanilla back because of the old pvp system for more than 10 years now.

    ...
    Well, why else would you demand vanilla back than to get.. well, vanilla?
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  20. #280
    Why is it wrong to reward people that put a lot of time into something they like to do?
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