Sticking to the old high warlord grind system is a huge mistake

[Sezh]

For years and years, the immensely toxic and hateful vanilla fanbase have been proudly stating that every single aspect with zero exceptions is better than every feature of retail. I want them to get exactly Vanilla and nothing else, no changes, so either:
A: They realize they were wrong
B: They actually keep playing, and what they said was true, earning my respect.
What I don't want, is people saying "Well yeah, Classic sucks. But it's because it's not original Vanilla. That shit was much better".

[tikcol]

im not sure why you keep bringing up amounts of honor it was different for every server and if you killed off all competition you could lower the amount by huge numbers and still progress at the same rate

you may just be getting the way your PvP group decided who was ranking up first confused with how the game gave out rank points

no brackets each standing had its own set amount of points given

Even though honor is relative it matters inside each bracket like I explained. I can assure you that I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Brackets always existed, people just didn't know how it worked back in the day. The PvP pool decided how many spots each bracket had available. On a 2.5k pop realm like I said there's around 10 spots for bracket 1, probably a bit less.

Standing 1 always got a fixed amount of 12k RP

If all the other players from bracket 1 got almost the same amount of honor as the standing 1 player they got rewarded almost 12k RP but never 12k RP.

The top bracket 2 player always received at most 11K RP, if all the players from bracket 2 got almost the same amount of honor as the top player from bracket 2 then they would receive virtually the same amount of RP, around 10.9k RP. The point of the community assigned brackets is to ensure everyone inside each bracket gets rewarded almost the maximum amount of ranking points(RP) for their bracket.

This is because it's possible for a player inside bracket 2 to receive 11k RP and the last player from bracket 2 to receive 10,1k RP. You don't want that, hence community assigned bracket spots. To make this happen all players inside each bracket need to have farmed virtually the same amount of honor.-

The same goes for bracket 3 and bracket 4.

Brackets are nothing else but the percentage of players from the pvp pool each week. The more players that were in that pool the higher the number of players per bracket.

The numbers of honor I'm giving aren't fixed, I'm just giving them so it's easier to understand.

[Bakis]

The orignial system sucked dick but with some kind of Trump fanaticism the "no changes" squad will parrot it as usual.
Classic should by all intent and purpose mimic the original as far as possible but changing some parts as dumb as the original pvp system would make sense. At some point quality much stomp original garbage in small ways.

[Uurdz]

The old highwarlord grind system is incredibly dumb. It rewards people who play 20 hours a day, and/or account share. Its an objectively bad system. And a perfect example of one of the things they should of changed for these servers.

I know they are scared of opening pandoras box in regards to changes, but this one was a no brainer. Huge mistake.

Anyone have an argument why this system is not embarrassingly awful?

I'm presuming you are trolling but if you are not:

1. Some people like that system. You don't get High Warlord by logging in and doing RBG for 10 hours on a weekend. Tough. There are some things in game you will NEVER get and that is fine with people who like classic.

2. Pandora's box. If that, then what else? The long ghost runs? The long flight path? The pooly balanced classes that just aren't viable to use? Where do you start and where do you stop?

[tikcol]

ok you seem to be getting decay mixed up with brackets existing

decay was what limited players from flooding the higher ranks there was no bracket system (this could of given you the illusion that players were earning the same number of RP because the higher ranks needed to make up for the larger decay)

each standing revived a different amount of rank points
the bracket system you are talking about is nothing but a PvP group deciding who will get rank 14 next (nothing to do with skill)

the only other thing that could explain this is i never played after the massive nerfs were applied to how hard it was to rank up i only played before and when battlegrounds first came out you might be talking about the noob friendly honor system

I'm not mixing anything up.

Bracket BreakPt % RP BreakPt
1 0.002 0.2 12 000 0.003
2 0.007 0.5 11 000 0.008
3 0.017 1.0 10 000 0.020
4 0.037 2.0 9 000 0.035
5 0.077 4.0 8 000 0.060
6 0.137 6.0 7 000 0.100
7 0.207 7.0 6 000 0.159
8 0.287 8.0 5 000 0.228
9 0.377 9.0 4 000 0.327
10 0.477 10.0 3 000 0.436
11 0.587 11.0 2 000 0.566
12 0.715 12.8 1 000 0.697
13 0.858 14.3 400 0.845
14 1.000 14.2 0 1.000

Decay is a fixed loss of your total of RP (20%) each week, there's nothing else to it.

A rank 10(40k RP) player loses 20% of their RP which amounts to 8000 RP. In order to progress or don't fall in rank he needs to farm at least 8k RP which is bracket 4.

I'm done with you btw you're clearly ignorant and are pretending to understand something you just don't. Once again I advise you to stop spreading misinformation. You do not understand the system and you clearly have problems with the english language because I can't be more clear than this. I've been creating brackets for players for years now, I understand the math and the system.

If you want to spend some time educating yourself I'll leave this here so you can learn some humility

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Hono...-2.0_formulas)

[tikcol]

you got the old system mixed up with the nerfed vanilla system

What system exactly do you think Classic will introduce? Hmm?

From someone that read the Classic PvP Update and took from there that battlegrounds would be introduced from the start I can only assume you probably got the pvp system wrong too.

Read, think, then answer. Instead of regurgitating the same non-sense over and over

[tangers58]

The old highwarlord grind system is incredibly dumb. It rewards people who play 20 hours a day, and/or account share. Its an objectively bad system. And a perfect example of one of the things they should of changed for these servers.

I know they are scared of opening pandoras box in regards to changes, but this one was a no brainer. Huge mistake.

Anyone have an argument why this system is not embarrassingly awful?

So don't get High Warlord?

[tikcol]

do you know when the honor system was nerfed? maybe look that up on your time line

it was not when battlegrounds were introduced

buddy, they're not implementing the first honor system. Is it that hard to understand?

They're implementing this one

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Hono...-2.0_formulas)
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Honor_system_(pre-2.0)

[Hottage]

The old highwarlord grind system is incredibly dumb. It rewards people who play 20 hours a day, and/or account share. Its an objectively bad system. And a perfect example of one of the things they should of changed for these servers.

I know they are scared of opening pandoras box in regards to changes, but this one was a no brainer. Huge mistake.

Anyone have an argument why this system is not embarrassingly awful?

I made Grand Marshal playing 16h a day without account sharing on one of the most popular Alliance servers in my battle group.
I also never let my team AFK dodge other premades, and we faced tweams which deliberately exploited Warsong Gulch to stop us from winning.

If you wanted to get Rank 14 there were two options:
> Be bad and account share until your ass bleeds.
> Be good enough to win 95%+ of your games for maximum honor return.

Was the system in classic a brutal, unbalanced bullshit test of endurance? Yes.
Should it be nerfed or changed? No.
Will I be doing it again? Absolutely not, haha.

[tikcol]

that's not the vanilla honor system that's a nerfed patched up version

so they are going to start pre-battlegrounds but use the honor system from more then 1 year after battlegrounds had been released?

GG that's not a vanilla honor system then that's the nerfed bitch version

you should of just said they were not using the original vanilla honor system would of saved everyone a lot of time

This is when I know you're full of shit. The only difference between the old and new honor system is this

Patch 1.8.0 (10-Oct-2005): The percentage of players that may reach ranks 6 through 14 has been increased.

Everything else is the same

[Thunderball]

there were no brackets in the original system

X amount of ranks creates X amount of decay there was a "LIMITED" pool of RP to counter X decay that's where the limitation is drawn from

all they did was throw more RP at players with a lower standing to increase the LIMITATION placed on ranks by the decay

that extra RP came in the form of brackets before this there were NO brackets

good work failing to understand such a basic concept

Ofc there were brackets. The patch just increased RP again for lower standings.

[tikcol]

there were no brackets in the original system

X amount of ranks creates X amount of decay there was a "LIMITED" pool of RP to counter X decay that's where the limitation is drawn from

all they did was throw more RP at players with a lower standing to increase the LIMITATION placed on ranks by the decay

that extra RP came in the form of brackets before this there were NO brackets

good work failing to understand such a basic concept

That was NEVER the case.


Patch 1.5.0 (2005-06-07):
Dishonorable kills - gained by killing a trivial Civilian NPC - now has a negative impact on a player's RP. Enough dishonorable kills will reduce a player's rank all the way to zero.
Players may now see an "estimated contribution point value" in the combat log for an honorable kill. Note that this value does not take diminishing returns against the same player into account, and is therefore "estimated".
"Team Contribution Points" has been renamed to "Honor"
Added tooltips to the different elements of the Honor System UI.
Players will see their last week's kill data in the "Last Week" section of the Honor System UI even if they did not achieve the 25 honorable kills required to gain standing or rank.


Patch 1.6.0 (12-Jul-2005):
The honor screen now displays a bar indicating how far along your current rank you are (Scout, Private, etc). This will let you know whether you are moving towards your next rank or falling back towards your previous rank from week to week.
There is a new "This Week" section of the Honor tab, which will display PvP accomplishments of the current week.
The "This Session" section of the Honor tab has been changed to "Today", and will now display the entirety of your accomplishments for the day instead of the most recent session.
Honor system reward items with a rank requirement will now require a lifetime "highest rank" of that rank, rather than requiring the character to currently have the required rank.
Players rank 11 or higher can now chat in the WorldDefense channel.
The WorldDefense and LocalDefense channels will now display your rank as well as your name when chatting.

Patch 1.7.0 (13-Sep-2005): Players may no longer purchase items that require a PvP rank unless they meet the rank requirement at the time of purchase.

Patch 1.8.0 (10-Oct-2005):
The percentage of players that may reach ranks 6 through 14 has been increased.
Lower-level players should advance in the Honor System more quickly than they had previously (although this change does not affect the highest ranks they can achieve).


You're also talking out of your ass, spreading misinformation from 10 year old memory from a system you didn't understand back then, even less today.

I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong with actual data but I can assure you, you won't find it because you're wrong and I'm tired of proving you wrong.

[Juggsa]

People That didnt play vanilla dont understand this. Its not just a huge grind. Its a system that needs to be exploited and abused in order to get rank 14. You cant get rank 14 without account swapping and having a predetermined person who gets it. You can never do this by your own.

I’m all for no changes, but this is one thing that have to. Oh and overpowered silly items and engineering.

[Jamie081]

Vanilla WoW getting a system from Vanilla. Is that smashing your rose-tinted glasses?

[Warning]

Would've been better to fix this toxic system a little bit. For example by allowing people two ways to access a certain bracket: IE bracket 14 (starts at 12000 RP) would be top 0.3% of players OR a minimum of 300k honor farmed, bracket 13 (starting at 11000RP) would be top 0.8% OR a minimum of 200k honor farmed. That way there would be at least a cap on how much no-lifing, cartel forming and general toxic stuff that can be done, because I expect its actually going to be worse than it was before now.

[tikcol]

what exactly do you think your linking? you have no data there kid

once again the limitation on players reaching higher ranks was created by RP vs Decay it has nothing to do with brackets

how old were you back then? do you only have misinterpreted information from private servers and not the original game

there was a progression cap on the speed you could progress each week but that had nothing to do with how many players could be between the ranks that decay came into effect for

I have linked you countless times all the data you could possibly need to understand that you're delusional about the system. If you're going to start acting like a little kid over being proven wrong then there's nothing else I can do here besides leaving you in your stubborn and willing ignorance

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Hono...-2.0_formulas)
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Honor_system_(pre-2.0)

Educate yourself and stop regurgitating misinformation.

[Ettan]

Old system all the way.

It is a massive grind. But so is everything else in vanilla (in one way shape or form). The game literally revolves araund it.
If you dont like that, then I would advice you to do something else. Because this game is a grind.

As for cartels or w/e
This is not really a thing, it is only in your head if you let it.
Form your own or join a pvp guild/ premade group.
And dont risk grouping with randoms for world pvp/ pve ; no disshonorable kills.

Premade - usually you win more; faster honor gain.
Doing world pvp while queueing; also a boon.

Can the people within those guilds/ premades coordinate with eachother; yes.
It is a group effort, so this should certainly be allowed. (Again dont like it; join another pvp guild/premade or form your own).

As for cross faction colaberation, its not very common and not really all that effective, as you always have a pvp solution to it.

Unless this cartel is so mighty or the server so dead that they can make everyone on the opposing side stop queueing just because your group is queueing.
But that is abit far fetched, no?

Queue dodging, is a thing and pmuch all premades do it if they need to. But that has never not been the case.

[MacPewPew]

good luck account sharing when they have better ways to determine when that's happening. Do you want to get banned accounts, because that's how you are gonna get banned accounts.

[tikcol]

lol you have no idea what your talking about all that information in those two links are

the only time he mentions bracket correctly is when referring to how many people "EXIST" in that current rank never mentioning standing

do your self a fav and google the words approximation and estimation to understand what everything in your links is doing

how old were you when people were grinding these ranks 5-10 years old??

lol no wonder you were talking about needing X honor per week lol

ill make it very simple for you the more people fighting over standing 1 the "Longer" i know the word "Longer" may be hard to understand but the "Longer" it will take for those players to reach rank 14 if there are to many people fighting over rank 14 they may never be able to over come the decay to reach rank 14 it had nothing to do with the amount of players on the server

jesus this is sad

the only time the word bracket is used correctly in your links is when he refers to how many players can exist within each rank based on DECAY vs RP

X Decay requires X RP to keep players within those "brackets"

STANDING was the only way you could judge your RP the CP the (Honor points) meant nothing

yep, delusional. Apparently you have a hard time with the english language too. Those wiki posts are not wrong, they have references which in case you forgot to see are official documentation from blizzard. You're being stubborn because you're wrong.

I'm going to put in bold the only things you have correct in this post, everything else is delusional garbage. And even that is somewhat wrong, honor points do matter inside each bracket between all the player inside the bracket.

I'm not letting you get away with your misinformation campaign. I'll shove it in your face as long as possible.

[micwini]

Yep, heres the "No changes" brigade, who rather say the phrase no changes than use their critical thinking skills for literally 30 seconds to realize how awful this system is.

I look forward to vanilla servers 2.0 when they inevitably make no brainer changes. It happened to Everquests servers, its gonna happen here.

- - - Updated - - -



Thinking "no changes" is a better stance than changing this hilariously awful system, is hilarious.

I swear "no changes" is the next "believe women". Its a catchy little saying that sounds good on its face, but upon inspection has fatal flaws. The small minded love their catchy little sayings.

If you used your critical thinking skills, you would come to the conclusion that Blizz' goal is to deliver an authentic experience of how the game was when it launched. This "bad system" was part of it.