I agree they need to have a reward system based on skill and not time spent. But how are they going to do that without ruining the "authentic vanilla experience"?
I agree they need to have a reward system based on skill and not time spent. But how are they going to do that without ruining the "authentic vanilla experience"?
Just let the no lifers pvper have their vanilla grind.
Selfish of you to take that away from them.
Are people really complaining they'll have to play a lot and put in a lot of hours to be in the top ranks of pvp?
You mean like the top ranked PvE guilds that put in insane hours to get world first in new raids?
Did people think classic was going to be easy or something? There's a reason most things from vanilla have been changed. Personally I remember quite enjoying pvp in vanilla but I only did it for fun, not for top ranks. Is that the point? So if you don't find doing it fun, don't do it. If people do find it fun, leave them to it.
The Vanilla pvp Rank system will always be a better design then some RNG paid lootbox some games use to get some of it's content.
Just because few people at a time can get it, doesn't mean there need to be some easy alternative catering to everyone.
WoW already lead to 4 difficulties of the same raids which is a stupid direction they took too far.
TBC had epics with resilience from Arena, not exactly a brilliant alternative either.
And they also gave the titles of Vanilla away later on via Rated battlegrounds, so people can get their Grand Marshal/High Warlords in WoW right now (since Cataclysm)
Last edited by Teri; 2019-04-13 at 12:55 AM.
Nah, that way you will have something like 10 people/week running around in late aq/naxx entry 2 hands making it unplayable for everyone else.
Because people now know and everyone will rush Rank 10 for free gear and then a few for the rest, but higher % would mean what i said above.
Back then it would be 10 players total running around in total by the time AQ gates started opening, and i am counting the casters in there also, so more like barely 2-3 2hands, and i am saying 2hands cause thats where the most broken scaling is, everyone gained insane stats obviously but them R14 2hands.
The % of players is fine, its just a bad system of an archaic logic.
It shouldnt be changed, but anyone glorifying it or saying "It was hard" is just being silly.
Last edited by potis; 2019-04-13 at 01:16 AM.
"Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Does anyone know if they've officially announced whether the Battleground system will be in anyway cross realm, with Battlegroups or otherwise?
It's just about possible if they had every server linked for battlegrounds, or at least large enough battlegroups, that it would be nigh impossible for any one single PvP group to have a monopoly on the brackets for their server (because of so many concurrent games occuring) that keeping the system as is would be basically fine.
OF course a big issue there is that players will lose some of their server identity when doing BGs, although my personal experiences of the battlegroup system wasn't so much worse than "one server BGs" but then I was on a moderately carebear battlegroup (Vindication), maybe the more populated ones you never saw an enemy twice I don't know.
Whilst yes there are people complaining that the system is stupid (and to some degree we all admit it ain't perfect) and needs total overhaul, we should happily ignore them in favour of NOCHANGES, absolutely. However my personal grief, as I outlined last page, is how it is handled by the 2019 crowd of players. Rather than the "having to be one of the top contributors every week for 3 or 4 months", which in itself isn't too much to ask (hell it really *ought* to be the reward for whoever spends the most time PVPing), it's the potential social fallout from "PvPing more than you're allowed to according to the ranking group" that is the issue.
@Jastall @potis I don't know if you agree with me that the "ranking mafia" is an issue to be fixed or one to be celebrated, but I'd be interested to hear what you think
Nah, the problem is people do not understand how terrible Vanilla was, and their experience is tinted behind rose glasses literally.
Its not 2005, where all the info is hidden inside elitistjerks for Ion and 50-100 top guilds and a few hundred more players to discuss their manual finds about how things worked.
People do not understand the difference on how some people experienced Vanilla, and how Vanilla really worked.
They have this delusion that everything was perfect because it had RPG elements and everyone was friendly with the occasional ninja looter because they had so much fun running <Insert irrelevant 58-60 dungeon here> after the gazillion class changes and dungeon changes.
I said this before, i realized how completely out of place/knowledge the community was while i was in a lesson at Uni and because i finished the assignment early (PC requirement class so, internet access, yay!) i decided to check the wow forums for the first time cause i realized "Hey, people actually post there its not only elitistjerks, lets see" and this was in October 2006.
I still remember the "shock" of a post and then the majority of similar posts.
"Finally cleared all of BRD this sunday doing a 12h marathon with friends!" and they have been level 60 for close to a year according to the post.
So something i cleared in 4-5 hours when i was a clueless Alliance druid level 60 noob , in March-April 2005 and then in 2-3 hours on my rerolled Warrior in June 2005 as level 58 because we knew the place, it takes the majority of the playerbase, with 2342343 buffs and nerfs to everything, 12 hours? What?
I can write pages of how Vanilla actually worked community wise, but mmo-champion always has that "FUCK YOUR OPINION AND FACTS, WE HAD FUN WIPING IN ZUL GURUB WITH FREEBIE RANK 14 GEAR IN DECEMBER 2006 IN PRE-TBC PATCH", "Who are you tell me" "and you have no proof" and all that usual random shit popping around in this forum 24/7.
Things are gonna be 10000% stupider now because all the info is out there and its not only gonna be 100 people/server having a clue how things worked.
Its gonna be way more, the majority is gonna be delusional people that believe they can achieve something with X amount of time, while there will be a group doing XXX amount of time and they have lost be default.
Everything in Vanilla is based in time first and skill after because its literally joke content.
For 2005, with no experience, terrible PCs and 250ms at BEST, it was the best game on Earth.
For full on experience of 15 years on what to farm/skip etc, and average of 40ms? Yeahhhh.
The ranking mafia is gonna be way, way way tougher assuming they dont open 200 servers and people end up rerolling on emptier servers to be alone and get their Rank 14 only to transfer back to a full server to PvE after.
I didnt answer the BG part cause if crossrealm opens at any time before the last 3 months of Classic, its not "Vanilla experience".
Last edited by potis; 2019-04-13 at 04:03 AM.
I'm so excited for the old Honour system. Made PvPing actually feel worth it and earning the gear is the biggest accomplishment in the game. But you're right we should just give full HWL gear to anyone who plays more than 3 WSG's to the end.
Get the fuck out of here.
Fair cop, thank you. Apparently Battlegroups were brought in in 1.12 and that's the patch they were aiming for I thought, but yeah nothing concrete on that yet.
- - - Updated - - -
I mean, considering they're putting in loot sharing because a few GMs back them would do it so some poeple think that's "true vanilla" and they can't be arsed with the manpower that would require these days, that a human is gonna be tracking PvP stuff or hours online is very much wishful thinking.
Yeah the old ranking system sucks. It doesn't reward people that are good, but reward them for, lets be honest... not having a life. (It can sometimes be both) It is not fun doing 20+ AVs a day with a premade, 7 days a week. But that's how vanilla was. Maybe a few years down the road they will change it, or maybe they won't.
3-4% is just too much. I understand where you're coming from but in a hypothetical server with a 5k pvp pool, there would be 200 players each week on bracket 1 earning insane amounts of RP. It wouldn't just make it easier for people invested in ranking to rank, it would be a shit show of players not very interested in pvp earning high ranks every single week.
The vanilla honor system is flawed on many levels in my opinion, but making changes like this would warrant a ton of other changes not only for pvp systems but in player behavior as a whole
The grind system is one of the most iconic systems of Vanilla, changing it would be one of the largest departures from the game that could be done. Vanilla PVP was about having no life, which subjectively to me is terrible but it's certainly not objectively bad based on that reason alone. I'm sure plenty of players look back on that time fondly, plenty of players absolutely wanted to be playing the game every day and that system allowed them to set themselves apart from others based on sheer dedication.
I do think it's a bad system, but that's purely based on personal reasons and preferences, you need to find a better reason to justify massively changing the PVP game than just claiming it's "objectively bad". I don't think the game needs to be changed, the only people who are going to go for High Warlord are unemployed 20 year olds and that's fine, it doesn't need to be a PVP system that caters to the masses or casuals.
If you played during Vanilla you're probably too old to play Classic properly anyway.
This is silly, it's not difficult to replicate the game on the Legion core, I feel like you're one of those people who look at it like it's some magical mumbo jumbo that can't be replicated, like it's some organic being. It's just programming, they have all the information they need to replicate it exactly. Any differences will be negligible differences, irrelevant nitpicks that a minority of folks are going to blow out of proportion "I eat this food and my health reached 100% 0.1s too fast, game is ruined".
The biggest difference from 2006 is that we're going to be playing with low latency on 4k monitors at 60fps+, just like we can on the original client. Blizzard have already confirmed that spell-batching is in, so gameplay should be exactly like Vanilla.
Last edited by Bigbazz; 2019-04-13 at 02:16 PM.
Probably running on a Pentium 4
Yeah even as I was suggesting it I realised that even increasing the bracket to 1% instead of 0.5 is just making it too easy. I'm now hoping that the BG system is cross realm as it would have been in 1.12 (as far as I can research at least, happy to be corrected) either through battlegroups or just all in one pot; so that it can dampen ths mafia gameplay, but we'll just have to see.
I know it is pretty whiny to complain about it, but in my limited experience on the pirate servers, too many people in the ranking groups are just such utter assholes that severly lessen my enjoyment of the game (obviously I'm not saying "most" just there have always been enough of them) that having to get "in" with that crowd is a big turn off