Chicago reports 24 shootings and five murders in one weekend

[Themius]

i dont understand how can this continue,
they (police) know there are gangs, know who are the members,
so why havent they cleaned up the city yet? is it because that would be racist ? lol

If you don't understand the issue, perhaps not come to silly conclusions?

For instance, biker gear is allowed to be sold on the free market, despite the fact those biker gangs are involved in drug trade and murders. Why is outlaw motor club merchandise allowed despite the number of deaths and drug trafficking charges?

[Vash The Stampede]

I think something really needs to be done about these gangs.

Universal Basic Income is the answer. Criminal activity is usually the result of poverty.

[RussianGoblin]

If you don't understand the issue, perhaps not come to silly conclusions?

For instance, biker gear is allowed to be sold on the free market, despite the fact those biker gangs are involved in drug trade and murders. Why is outlaw motor club merchandise allowed despite the number of deaths and drug trafficking charges?

So what is the reason those gangs are not dealt with if they and their members are known to the police?

Merchandise is a different thing... even if its popular among some gangs it cant be just banned.

What i was trying to say is, if the police know that there is a violent gang operating in a certain area, and know who are the members (and im sure they do know)
why not prepare a big sweep op and crack down on them, shoot them if they resist?

[Themius]

So what is the reason those gangs are not dealt with if they and their members are known to the police?

Merchandise is a different thing... even if its popular among some gangs it cant be just banned.

What i was trying to say is, if the police know that there is a violent gang operating in a certain area, and know who are the members (and im sure they do know)
why not prepare a big sweep op and crack down on them, shoot them if they resist?

It isn't popular among gangs

It is the gang selling the merchandise themselves and then using those proceeds to buy and traffic drugs

The issue goes to a legal one you need the court system.

[RussianGoblin]

It isn't popular among gangs

It is the gang selling the merchandise themselves and then using those proceeds to buy and traffic drugs

The issue goes to a legal one you need the court system.

im not familiar with that organization, however if theyre a known criminal group then again how is it that theyre allowed to operate?
corrupt police/government taking a cut from their revenue? -.-

[Themius]

im not familiar with that organization, however if theyre a known criminal group then again how is it that theyre allowed to operate?
corrupt police/government taking a cut from their revenue? -.-

Because we don't just arrest people unless there is clearly a crime. For instance the Mafia is a thing, and people know the mafia exist but unless a mafioso is caught in the act or tied to something criminal while it is known he is a criminal until there is a solid reason to arrest he will remain free.

[breadisfunny]

we need a forced cultural change in these areas.

send in the military and execute every single gang member. outlaw hiphop and rap, give incentives to either not have children, or to keep two partners together to raise the child.

i agree it's time we end the gangs with force if neccesary.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So what is the reason those gangs are not dealt with if they and their members are known to the police?

Merchandise is a different thing... even if its popular among some gangs it cant be just banned.

What i was trying to say is, if the police know that there is a violent gang operating in a certain area, and know who are the members (and im sure they do know)
why not prepare a big sweep op and crack down on them, shoot them if they resist?

You are aware they need evidence to get people off the streets right? Even if the cops know some one is part of a gang they can’t just lock them up unless they have proof that person has committed a crime, it’s the whole reason courts exist.

It more so sounds like you want the punisher to deal with people not the legal system.

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i agree it's time we end the gangs with force if neccesary.

How would you do that you figure? Derps seems to be leaning towards mass murder in the streets and re-education camps which will no doudt be a hit with the public, Would you agree with such things?

[RussianGoblin]

You are aware they need evidence to get people off the streets right? Even if the cops know some one is part of a gang they can’t just lock them up unless they have proof that person has committed a crime, it’s the whole reason courts exist.

It more so sounds like you want the punisher to deal with people not the legal system.

but many of those criminals do have a crime record, were arrested and released.
often when i read news and theres something about a major crime, in 90% cases theres something like "x was known to police for years" mentioned.
besides with all the CCTV and drones available, im sure police do have evidence of them committing some crimes (even the minor ones) so a justification for arrest should be easy to produce.
anyway i think the legal system is broken.

about the punisher thing, lol yes you got me there

[Lorgar Aurelian]

but many of those criminals do have a crime record, were arrested and released.
often when i read news and theres something about a major crime, in 90% cases theres something like "x was known to police for years" mentioned.
the legal system is broken.

about the punisher thing, lol yes you got me there

Of course the legal system is broken that’s what happens when your based on people reoffending so you can make more money instead of rehabilitation. If you want less crimes from reoffenders you need to either make rehabilitation the focus or lock people up for ever like judge dread.

Or murder I guess if the punisher is your sort of thing.

[hynx]

I think something really needs to be done about these gangs.

Chicago needs stricter gun laws...oh wait

[RussianGoblin]

Of course the legal system is broken that’s what happens when your based on people reoffending so you can make more money instead of rehabilitation. If you want less crimes from reoffenders you need to either make rehabilitation the focus or lock people up for ever like judge dread.

Or murder I guess if the punisher is your sort of thing.

Yes im glad that we can agree on it (that the system is broken).

In my home country/city we do not have any large scale organized crime,
murders are rather rare but still if something bad happen then yeah - "x was known to police" in almost every case.
usually its just some hooligan groups vandalizing public property at night or stealing.

Depending on the seriousness of crime of course, but in general i do not believe in rehabilitation.

[Nellise]

Chicago needs stricter gun laws...oh wait

Sorry for the language, but holy fuck can people read already? We've talked about it in this thread (and every other Chicago murder thread). Chicago's strict gun control laws were overturned as unconstitutional 5-10 years ago (depending on the specific law). It's about average with the rest of the country for gun laws these days. And Chicago's murder problem really only escalated the last 4 years after those strict laws were gone.

[Rennadrel]

I'm not surprised at all. On a slightly offtopic note, I saw a headline yesterday that said London had a higher murder rate than New York now. Thought that was interesting.

Welcome to cultural enrichment! /S

But seriously, places with strong ethnic enclaves are rife with violence and gang problems. It happens everywhere, because it's either a clash of cultures or a clash of religions.

[Sezh]

Being this ignorant to the topic.

I'm certainly not one to jump on the bandwagon and proclaim that Chicago is proof that gun control cannot work, but I will say that Chicago is proof that reactionary gun control isn't very effective, and this is clearly a social problem and not a gun access one.

Look, no matter the nuances of this issue, and how complicated it actually is. There is one simple fact that can never be ignored: More guns will always mean more deaths. If there was not a single gun in circulation amongst civilians, less people would die. Period. So on a principal level, the issue is simple; guns are tools meant for murder, and they will fulfill their purpose.

[Rennadrel]

You are aware they need evidence to get people off the streets right? Even if the cops know some one is part of a gang they can’t just lock them up unless they have proof that person has committed a crime, it’s the whole reason courts exist.

It more so sounds like you want the punisher to deal with people not the legal system.

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How would you do that you figure? Derps seems to be leaning towards mass murder in the streets and re-education camps which will no doudt be a hit with the public, Would you agree with such things?

Hey, guilty by association works for SJWs, why can't it work for gang bangers?

[Draco-Onis]

Welcome to cultural enrichment! /S

But seriously, places with strong ethnic enclaves are rife with violence and gang problems. It happens everywhere, because it's either a clash of cultures or a clash of religions.

Except that has nothing to do with it, the reason crime has increased is due to severe austerity measures by the right.

[zenkai]

Their problem solved.

Good choice

[Ghostpanther]

Sorry for the language, but holy fuck can people read already? We've talked about it in this thread (and every other Chicago murder thread). Chicago's strict gun control laws were overturned as unconstitutional 5-10 years ago (depending on the specific law). It's about average with the rest of the country for gun laws these days. And Chicago's murder problem really only escalated the last 4 years after those strict laws were gone.

They are still stricter than many other large cities. There is no open carry and getting a conceal carry permit is not near as easy as it is in say.....Columbus Ohio. And last time I checked, it is also expensive to get a carry conceal permit ( the actual permit is not that expensive , but the cost for the required 16 hr class is about $175.) Which is unduly prohibitive for the poor there. All those rulings did was limit how restrictive Chicago could be with firearms.

[Rennadrel]

Except that has nothing to do with it, the reason crime has increased is due to severe austerity measures by the right.

So how does that change increases in violence in other cities by visible minority groups both in America and in other countries. The amount of violence between black Canadians in Toronto has long been a problem and yet despite 14 years of leftist policies, it's still an issue. Do you want to know the even bigger kicker? It's taken a Conservative government here to fund development of affordable housing for one of the most expensive cities in the world, because the liberals proved to be too greedy and inept to give a damn about the poor and lower class people.

It sounds to me like Chicago's problems stem from an amplified version of what Toronto has faced in the past as far as gang crime. What did 8 years of Obama do for Chicago? Pretty much nothing, by the looks of it. So you can blame "severe austerity by the right" all you want, but don't pretend like the left is going to be the purveyors of social justice that can swoop in and fix all of Chicago's problems, because they haven't been able to.