Thread: Mythic > Raid

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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid? The difference is about 10 to 15 ilvls. And if so, why? Is it not far more challenging putting a 25 man raid together aned keep it together and managing a guild than finding 4 players?

    On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

    So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF
    You can also buy Heroic Raid boosts, or even Mythic Raid boosts. The system is not designed to be pay to win, but there are enough players willing to sell their services for gold. When you're a fully geared player, selling runs for gold becomes very profitable.

    Heroic is flex. You don't need to run 25 players. Just any amount between 10 and 40. It's suddenly not so difficult.

    High level keystones are actually harder to clear than Heroic level raid bosses (especially the first few raid bosses which are usually really easy). So the gear they drop isn't particularly crazy.

  2. #102
    The Lightbringer Daish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid? The difference is about 10 to 15 ilvls. And if so, why? Is it not far more challenging putting a 25 man raid together aned keep it together and managing a guild than finding 4 players?

    On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

    So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF
    people cant progress in mythic raids because of the unique ID's if Unique ID's were removed for mythic raids this would not be a issue

  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire Chromell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Running a 25 man heroic guild means you will try mythic 25 man but that's beside the point. The effort and time needed to manage a guild of 30 or so raiders is huge!

    The message is clear, 25 man guilds are second tier .. Simply pay boosters in game gold -via blizz store- and voila you better geared than heroic raiders in a fraction of the time!
    Gear doesn't equal skill. And since you mentioned raiding, you can do Heroic raids with as many as 10 people. Subjecting yourself to the stress of managing a larger roster is entirely your choice.

    Mythic+ has a time limit, even if you get gear regardless of the time, you still need to complete some of them quickly to up your keys to get the best gear (aka there's no rinse and repeat as there is in raiding, so less room for mistakes). Lastly, there's nothing wrong with selling boosts, it's within the game economy. This is also not pay to win since you still required the selling group (assume 4 people) to perform flawlessly in order to finish the dungeon.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    majority ? definetly not.

    but amount of constant spam in trade kind begs to ask question "if they wouldnt have buyers would they be spamming it like this ? "
    Yeah, same as when you get an email from a nigerian prince, claiming he will give you a million dollars for whatever reason, you just need to pay $500 as a deposit for the bank.

    Anyway, OP is making it sound like literally everyone is buy carries and somehow gets titanforged loots from each an every run.

    Just the same old shitty story, but why not have another 30+ page thread about it, going through the same non arguments over and over, right?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    I can buy Mythic gear today from M+ .. It's being spammed on pretty much every active server.

    Getting 415 from M+ is within the gold cost-reach of many .. And the lazy ones can just use a credit card for tokens!
    Still. It doest kill a boss for you.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by kappalol View Post
    Still. It doest kill a boss for you.
    But the group I pay do .. That to me is pretty darn close to Pay2Win.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    But the group I pay do .. That to me is pretty darn close to Pay2Win.
    Good luck with buying a boost. In this logic every game is P2W. Just pay someone to boost you. Boost would cost you something like 500+ euros. It's not pay to win technique.
    Last edited by kappalol; 2019-04-12 at 05:42 AM.

  8. #108
    I mean for heroic you need 10-30 people, don't need a stable roster, don't need to gear up all that much. You do the raid, what, 1-3 days a week (I don't think there's guilds who do heroic only and raid more than 3 days?). Of course, this sort of assumes you actually have a guild with a dedicated leader - if you don't I don't know how easy it is.
    For M+, you can't gear out of weekly chest only. So you kinda have to run a lot of them - which means you either have a dedicated group or you pug a lot. Now this is debatable... but a heroic only guild will likely take players ranging from good to bad and not nitpick as much. For M+ you need people who are decent and you also need to have a high tolerance of repeating content (ex: doing the same dungeon over and over and over is way more boring than do the raid once a week).
    Of course, if you're real comfortable pugging, doing M+ is probably a lot easier than doing raids. I'm also talking from the perspective of a person who works a lot and can't spare all that much - I do M+, but only a few every week because I want to do so many things in my spare time.

    So overall, it's subjective I guess. Depends on the time you can spare, how thick your skin is, how good you actually are, your tolerance to grind and so on.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    If raiding was the most fun thing you can do with friends, people would do it.

    LEGION's raiding community was hold together with masterloot exploitation and tier-set-bonuses. BfA only had to remove those 2 last chains from raiding to let players do in pve what they really like, playing with friends.
    I really don't know about master loot since, really, it didn't bug me. But I'd dare to say, instead of masterloot, it was the legendaries items that kept us playing for a long time, at least for me.

    Even though we pested about the RNG and the fact that the legendaries were kind of mandatory to bring a few more % of our DPS / Healing / Tanking's output, I feel like this game was one of the best for casuals players that could play with the most hardcore ones.

    For me, I really liked the fact that Legendaries and Tier Sets could change your gameplay. What I didn't like was the RNG. The azerite pieces just doesn't make a significant difference for a lot of classes, and more importantly, they don't really change your gameplay (obviously with a few exception of some of the traits)

    It was also the only expansion where I dared to play the Raids more often. Otherwise, I'd have unsubbed much like all the others expansion (never played more than 2-3 months for each ones, except Legion where I played more than 1 year).

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by kappalol View Post
    Good luck with buying a boost. In this logic every game is P2W. Just pay someone to boost you. Boost would cost you something like 500+ euros. It's not pay to win technique.
    500+ Would be to get a mythic raid .. We talking Mythic + 5 man which you can spam .. For a cost within reach of many -hence the constant spam in trade channel offering the service- you get a boost.

    It may take you weeks or months to gear up via 25 man .. Or pay about the same and spam 5 man mythic Higher ilvl and costs less due to you only paying 4 people instead of 24!

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    M+ happens because raids are not accessible enough.

    Most people I know prefer raids with their slow learning style to m+ with its “Go go go can’t make mistakes and must use an add on that tells you trash to kill” style.

    But raids are closed to anyone not in a regular raid group which demands that you set aside the same 6-9 hours every week. The playerbase is OLD. We need flexibility.
    Excellent point. Completely agree, i actually wonder if Blizzard is aware of this.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid? The difference is about 10 to 15 ilvls. And if so, why? Is it not far more challenging putting a 25 man raid together aned keep it together and managing a guild than finding 4 players?

    On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

    So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF
    wr0ng.

    High M+ like +15 or 20 require insane amount of cooperation and dedication. Imagine a boss that lasts not just 3-5 mins but 40 mins - thats it. Timer is very tight, I find some +15 instances even more difficult that Mythic raid bosses. Even in Mythic raid you can slack, make mistakes, die and still you defeat the boss - mostly because others perform better. In M+ everyone should perform at 100% if you want to close not just +2-3 but really high keys.

    As for buying stuff with gold - whats the problem? If you can buy items in M+ you can as well buy items from Heroic or Mythic raids of the same ilvl

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    Well I mean, people are free to prevent themselves from doing the game's content, they are just gonna pay for it. Play the game or don't play it, but don't pretend you're actually playing the game if you barely do half of its content.
    The point is, the weekly rewards from the mythic+ cache is disproportionally rewarding compared to raiding, given how easy it is to reach the highest teir of weekly rewards.
    "My brother thinks I'm crazy to play the same game for years. He doesn't understand. I plan to play it for the rest of my life."

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid? The difference is about 10 to 15 ilvls. And if so, why? Is it not far more challenging putting a 25 man raid together aned keep it together and managing a guild than finding 4 players?

    On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

    So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF
    “Heroic Raiders” xD

    You make it sound like it’s impressive to complete a heroic raid. My guild clears heroic BOD in 1 hour. It’s so easy and boring. No great loot is deserved for that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    But the group I pay do .. That to me is pretty darn close to Pay2Win.
    What do you win though?

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    The point is, the weekly rewards from the mythic+ cache is disproportionally rewarding compared to raiding, given how easy it is to reach the highest teir of weekly rewards.
    Mythic cache is 1 item per week from a long list of items. It would take, what, 15 weeks depending on your class to fully gear up? That's not including duplicates items or items in the same slot. I had a month of nothing but cloaks in my cache. I've also gotten the same shitty AD agi trinket 3 times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ssviolett View Post
    wr0ng.

    High M+ like +15 or 20 require insane amount of cooperation and dedication. Imagine a boss that lasts not just 3-5 mins but 40 mins - thats it. Timer is very tight, I find some +15 instances even more difficult that Mythic raid bosses. Even in Mythic raid you can slack, make mistakes, die and still you defeat the boss - mostly because others perform better. In M+ everyone should perform at 100% if you want to close not just +2-3 but really high keys.
    While I mostly agree with you, this is a really bad point. It doesnt matter if it's a +15 or +20. You're inflating the difficulty of gearing through m+ since those keys give the same gear as a +10. Doubly so because you don't need to even complete it in time.

    That's not to say the other side hasnt inflated the difficulty either. Heroic BOD is pretty damn easy, with only a couple of bosses that MAY be the same difficulty as a +10. That and you don't need 25 people, you only need 10. 10 isnt that far from 5.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    “Heroic Raiders” xD

    You make it sound like it’s impressive to complete a heroic raid. My guild clears heroic BOD in 1 hour. It’s so easy and boring. No great loot is deserved for that.

    - - - Updated - - -
    My awe at your epeen aside, this is a real problem. Heroic is too easy and mythic is mostly inaccessible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Molis View Post
    For me Mythic+ is funner, easier to organize, and a better option than raiding.

    Why would Blizzard kill something for just you OP?
    Well, a good reason is that there are 2 tanks, 4 healers in a 20m and 14 dps: so 70% of a raid is dps. Only 60% in a 5m is dps. But it's worse, because there's never been enough tanks or healers in the game, which means out of a raid, you probably end up with 2 5m groups and the other five people just quit the game.

    They are basically repeating the same old design disaster of Cataclysm: going from 25m to 10m and in the process basically dropping something like fifteen players.

    They are encouraging their raiders to quit the game. It's not a great design strategy.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post
    Mythic cache is 1 item per week from a long list of items. It would take, what, 15 weeks depending on your class to fully gear up? That's not including duplicates items or items in the same slot. I had a month of nothing but cloaks in my cache. I've also gotten the same shitty AD agi trinket 3 times.
    I play 4 alts, as does many in my guild. We run max 1 hc alt raid a week because its simply not worth the effort to run more compared to the lazy, slow but so much more rewarding weekly mythic cache. Heroic raiding is also considerably harder than m+10. So more effort for less reward.
    The insane reward you get from 1 mythic run is so large that it actively discourages you from playing more. Similar to how the ridiculously rewarding weekly Q for islands makes you feel like your wasting your time if you do more islands than the weekly requires.
    "My brother thinks I'm crazy to play the same game for years. He doesn't understand. I plan to play it for the rest of my life."

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    I play 4 alts, as does many in my guild. We run max 1 hc alt raid a week because its simply not worth the effort to run more compared to the lazy, slow but so much more rewarding weekly mythic cache. Heroic raiding is also considerably harder than m+10. So more effort for less reward.
    The insane reward you get from 1 mythic run is so large that it actively discourages you from playing more. Similar to how the ridiculously rewarding weekly Q for islands makes you feel like your wasting your time if you do more islands than the weekly requires.
    Heroic raiding really isn't considerably harder than m+10. It's easily puggable. Only Jaina, maybe Mekkatorque for a guild with people who are too shy to use their mics, are harder. Majority of the bosses are just as easy as a +10.

    This also makes little sense. Being able to grind for 400 items on a +10 should make you play more, not less. You also ignored the time it takes to gear completely solely from cache. If it takes you 3 months, minimum, to gear up from getting one piece a week from your chest, that's not bad. Serious raiders should be much higher than that with WF/TF and mythic raid gear. If you're not a serious raider, this should be a good thing. It's also a good for altoholics. Easier access to content.

  20. #120
    Here's a question tho: If you only farm 10+ all day everyday for gear, you're consistent at beating the timer and you don't raid: what do you need the gear for?

    Mythic raiders farm gear to gain extra power to overcome certain bosses in the raid.
    You farm gear to... flex your ilvl?

    Anyone can gear up any character (or number of characters) from weekly caches and one to three 10+ runs a week over half a year. But what for? If you don't use the gear for anything then it's worthless.

    This is the problem with people, this is why there are so many boosts advertised. People think they get some kind of prestige level for having x ilvl when in reality they use that for nothing. Anyone who is aiming to push keys won't invite you without skill, and you'll get kicked from any pug raid pulling low af dps/hps whatever, nobody cares what your ilvl is at that point.

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