Thread: Mythic > Raid

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  1. #61
    imho no item should be allowed to titanforged to mythic level.

  2. #62
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    Mythic+ is likely more popular than raiding because finding 4 other good players is substantially easier than finding 9 or 19. I still maintain that high-end raiding's only real difficulty lies in finding people who aren't pants-on-head r-worded (no idea how SJW/politically correct this forum is these days).

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Raiding and the highest of high-end PvP should be the ONLY source of best-of-best gear.
    I don't agree... to push high keys you need the gear and you don't really want to raid for that.

    However, I do agree that giving 410 loot for finishing a 10 and not timing it is too low of a requirement.. the chest reward should be capped with the ilvl of the person, not only the level of the key.. so if you have 410 ilvl you'd get 415 loot, if you have 385 ilvl you'd get 390 loot max from the chest.

    Plus the fact that the weekly chest consider the highest key finished and not the highest key timed, that's a bit ridiculous.. there should be a penalty for this at least.

    What I do find stupid in mythic+ is that people doing +25 keys are not rewarded for that, that's the hardest pve content right there in the game and they get the same rewards as people doing a +10
    Last edited by Spotnick; 2019-04-11 at 12:11 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid?
    Raid content is harder to produce than any low effort endless scaling content and caters to less people because of the organisational requirements and required scheduling. Do the math.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Running a 25 man heroic guild means you will try mythic 25 man but that's beside the point. The effort and time needed to manage a guild of 30 or so raiders is huge!

    The message is clear, 25 man guilds are second tier .. Simply pay boosters in game gold -via blizz store- and voila you better geared than heroic raiders in a fraction of the time!
    You can pay a guild to drag you through content. Been that way since forever.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by neildown View Post
    In 25 man if one player slacks its 4% but if one slacks in mythics its 20% certainly would not say raids are harder...25 man is maybe harder to get together but for me focus is more intense in M+
    25 man hasn't been a thing for a long time.

    Also he's talking about heroic so no idea why he's even putting a number to it since it's flex.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    people always take the path of least resistance. if you can get 4 friends together and chain run M+ and get better gear than heroic raiding or even mythic raiding on 1/10th the time commitment... who the hell is gonna commit to mythic raiding other than the most hardcore of hardcore's going for world first?

    M+ is a great addition, but the pendulum swung way too far in BFA and has essentially gutted heroic/mythic raiding beyond salvaging.
    You're not getting gear better than Mythic raiding. You're getting close, but you're not getting gear that's as good or better aside from lucky TFs. Overall someone that does Mythic raiding is going to have better gear than someone who just focuses on M+. Heroic raiding is a pug difficulty anyway, and running a +10 is harder than anything you're going to see in heroic.

    People who raid Mythic do so because they enjoy it. The pool of potential high end raiders was stagnant before Mythic difficulty was even a thing. M+ hasn't changed that in either direction.
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  8. #68
    Because heroic raiding is much less challenging for each individual than a m+10 is, even if you like to think so or not.
    Since the addition of Mythic raids, Heroic raiding is not really a challenge anymore. There is a reason why heroic is cleared with pugs in it's entirety the first week of raid release.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

    So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF
    I did 2 Pug mythic+ dungeons in BFA and it was a total disaster. And you only have to pay if you are antisocial and dont want to commit to a guild. So its basically punishment for playing a mmorpg as singleplayer game. Totally fine. Blizzard has catered the game too much for those people. LFR, Warfronts, LFD, all featues that dont belong in a social game.

    My advice: stop whining and get yourself a guild and just run mythic+ all day. Level 10 keys are total freeloot and they drop all the gear you desire so much.

    Also gear doesnt mean shit now. I have 5 characters with about 410 and only one of them raids mythic.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    And you only have to pay if
    I'll top you there.. you don't have to pay at all.

    In fact I never understood why people would pay for that.. we have a proverb in french that translates to "victory without risk brings triumph without glory", I mean, there is absolutely no fun in being carried is it? so why bother playing the game if you can't own your own rewards, that's a mystery to me.

    I can understand for mounts.. but gear that will be obsolete in no time, I don't get it.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Raiding and the highest of high-end PvP should be the ONLY source of best-of-best gear.
    Pretty much this. While I'm fine with M+ being an alternative to raiding as end game content, but if 5 mans are going to be the better way to go, then what's even the point of putting raids in to the game? It's a system as old as RPGs themselves; you do easier content (5 mans in wow, random encounters in traditional RPGs) to better yourself for the harder content (raids or that upcoming boss).

  12. #72
    From pug player perspective m+ and pvp are the only activities worth doing. People are so bad that even eash heroics can be wiped in first 30 seconds. If therr are 25 people like 5 of them can be bad bur get carried so they can link achivement to prove they are good so we end with so many simple mechanics failers.

    In m+ or pvp (i am not playing rbg) you will notice if someone is bad or not and you will usually lose because if there are 4 people doing idk +15 and itd their skill limit and one player that should stay on +10 you can rly fail key.

    If they will ever make m+ reward lower ilvl than heroic a lot of ppl will stop playing because of how bad pug heroic raiders are.

    Imagine that for some ppl getting 2.4k in any pvp bracket is so easy that they lose like 10 games max until max ilvl reward. Should they be punished because getting 2.4k is too easy?

    Nobody stop anyone from doing weekly +10 or pushing pvp rating. There are many sources of high ilvl gear and that is good because players are not forced to do just one thing

  13. #73
    My biggest complaint is the increase in difficulty from Heroic to Mythic raiding is vastly higher than the difficulty to cap your Mythic + cache.

    Heroic raiding can be done as a “Flex” which alleviates so many “guild management” issues compared to Mythic with a fixed size. I.e. attendance, composition, bench rotations etc

    Secondly, Mythic raiding difficulty is a massive leap above Heroic to the point most heroic guilds won’t do more than 2 or 3 Mythic bosses. Individual mistakes can easily wipe the raid.

    Effectively, many Heroic guilds clear the raid in a few weeks then either unsub or grind M+ for upgrades. The difficulty/reward curve in BFA is way off (IMHO).
    Last edited by Dakara; 2019-04-11 at 04:19 AM.

  14. #74
    Unpopular opinion: IF M+ Caches give mythic raid equivalent loot at +10, then +10's should be a comparable mechanical difficulty to a mythic raid.

  15. #75
    good.

    raiding has been cancer to game for years.

    mythic + revitalised game and proven that designing game around raids was always a mistake.

    they should have designed it around 5-10 mans since launch

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF
    Is there an actual player who would be shelling €25 on a weekly basis just to get boosted through +10s, or is it just some bullshit you made up to make a point?

  17. #77
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    M+10 and beyond is much harder than heroic raid bosses, so I don't see the problem.

    I'm very pleased with the current design of M+, it adds so much more life to the game than the old RAID OR DIE mentality of the devs and gives small group content that my friends and I can tackle regularly.

    Before Legion, dungeons were pretty much a thing you did when you freshly hit max level, for like a week, and then you basically never went back, aside from times we were forced to aoe zerg piss easy runs for badges (like wotlk zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) or Challenge Modes (which were underused and cosmetic one-time things rather than actual game progression).

    Also, the "pay to win" shite in the OP is pure trolling. Don't make me laugh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louz View Post
    Is there an actual player who would be shelling €25 on a weekly basis just to get boosted through +10s, or is it just some bullshit you made up to make a point?
    And if they were rich enough to do that they could just buy a boost through a Mythic raid and get a full run's worth of gear that way.... It's a total bait point and not remotely based on truth.
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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Louz View Post
    Is there an actual player who would be shelling €25 on a weekly basis just to get boosted through +10s, or is it just some bullshit you made up to make a point?
    hm i wonder - for a lot of people 25€ is 30-60 minutes of work . finding a decent pug or pushing your keys may take many many hours unless you already have premade team - and even then most of dungeons are like 20-30 minutes.

    for a lot of people in western eu it may be very much worth it on main .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2019-04-11 at 06:57 AM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    hm i wonder - for a lot of people 25€ is 30-60 minutes of work . finding a decent pug or pushing your keys may take many many hours unless you already have premade team - and even then most of dungeons are like 20-30 minutes.

    for a lot of people in western eu it may be very much worth it on main .
    Yeah, funny.

    That's implying that the boosters are universally 3rd worlders who can't afford to buy tokens they would turn into gold and buy consumables.

    That's also implying that people making €50/hr are the majority players.

    Or it's just plain bullshit and while you might find your example guy, it¨s nowhere near the norm as the OP implies.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    You're not getting gear better than Mythic raiding. You're getting close, but you're not getting gear that's as good or better aside from lucky TFs. Overall someone that does Mythic raiding is going to have better gear than someone who just focuses on M+. Heroic raiding is a pug difficulty anyway, and running a +10 is harder than anything you're going to see in heroic.

    People who raid Mythic do so because they enjoy it. The pool of potential high end raiders was stagnant before Mythic difficulty was even a thing. M+ hasn't changed that in either direction.
    "People do mythic because they enjoy it" That's true, but when you can get mythic gear from afk in warfront, wf/tf in normal/heroic (not as uncommon as you think), in M+, and guaranteed off the weekly chest... it creates an apathy situation where most raiders are like "Why commit to playing 4-5x as much for mythic raiding when i can just afk through easy content and be equally geared by the end of the tier with 1/10th the effort?"

    It's created a "why bother?" situation that has NEVER existed in mythic raiding before. Even in Legion, mythic raiding offered gear quality that existed nowhere else in game.

    As for running a +10 being harder, get out of here with that. A heroic raid is going to be harder to put together ALONE than a M+, making it harder. Each boss alone with a pug can take longer than a M+ if you have to explain it.

    A M+ is the barrier for timed achievement because it really isnt all that bad compared to organizing and running a raid. The logistics ALONE make it so raiding should get better gear.

    Otherwise, why bother when you can just chain M+ with friends, and in the same time it would take to do a heroic raid where you may get 1-2 drops, you can chain run 6-10 M+ and a guaranteed weekly chest that is better than anything in game.

    Yeah, contrary to what you think mythic raiders do it for prestige not JUST for fun. It's fun because it is hard and prestigious, but BFA took one of those elements away and look what's happened... raiding is on life support for the first time in WOW's history.

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