Mythic > Raid

[Lawlhero]

Just raid Mythic :\

I never stepped foot in mythic BOD and i'm 416 ilevel. I shouldn't be higher geared than the mythic baseline drop with out raiding it.

[odamienskii]

i think you will find that those that do high m+ are actually far into mythic raids which has a base 415 ilvl

just because someone does m+ doesnt mean they get ALL of there gear from there, i know a lot of people that have some nice items from pvp weekly chest too.

[Freshouttajail]

or you could do m+ once a week aswell and still end up with 10 ilvl higher gear than a person doing heroic raiding.

Well I mean, people are free to prevent themselves from doing the game's content, they are just gonna pay for it. Play the game or don't play it, but don't pretend you're actually playing the game if you barely do half of its content.

[RobertMugabe]

Raiding has to be more rewarding, period. Sure, this whole idea of having alternative progression paths sounds nice and all, but in reality this will just kill off raiding, especially for non-mythic raiders and pugs.

[Baleful]

I never stepped foot in mythic BOD and i'm 416 ilevel. I shouldn't be higher geared than the mythic baseline drop with out raiding it.

You aren't, most mythic raiders are 418+ right now. Also they have acces to a reliable source of azerite gear and trinkets you never will. Mythic raiding is no longer the focus in high end pve but it is still by far the most profitable activity in regards of time consumption/reward.

[kappalol]

So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF

it's not P2w. Heroic gear doesn't kill mythic Jaina for you. Which is the pinnacle of PvE for now.

[Lawlhero]

You aren't, most mythic raiders are 418+ right now. Also they have acces to a reliable source of azerite gear and trinkets you never will. Mythic raiding is no longer the focus in high end pve but it is still by far the most profitable activity in regards of time consumption/reward.

Thats true, but still completely killed my motivation to mythic raid.

[Moonsorrow]

The problem is that for many people there motivation to do any kind of content is closely linked to the reward and the acquisition of gear.

I do both because I enjoy doing both M+ and raids. Of course I like getting a nice TF from a M+ or raidboss but it is a bonus not the goal. I've come to the point where gear is merely a tool to do content I enjoy, especially as my guild is not competent enoug to progress past the first few mythic bosses even with the weekly M+chest boost, it gives me something challenging to do.

And anyone that thinks that doing a +20 is easier then mythic raiding has never done any M+ besides the weekly +10.

[Cempa]

it's not P2w. Heroic gear doesn't kill mythic Jaina for you. Which is the pinnacle of PvE for now.

I can buy Mythic gear today from M+ .. It's being spammed on pretty much every active server.

Getting 415 from M+ is within the gold cost-reach of many .. And the lazy ones can just use a credit card for tokens!

[Lurker1]

Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid? The difference is about 10 to 15 ilvls. And if so, why? Is it not far more challenging putting a 25 man raid together aned keep it together and managing a guild than finding 4 players?

On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF

All my chars are ilvl 385 or higher and i don't feel i need Mythic+ at all whoever pays with gold or real life money is a chump.

[Jester Joe]

I can buy Mythic gear today from M+ .. It's being spammed on pretty much every active server.

Getting 415 from M+ is within the gold cost-reach of many .. And the lazy ones can just use a credit card for tokens!

I think it's pretty obvious you haven't ran M+ if you think 415s drop that often. A +10 only drops a 400.

Even the weekly cache is only a base of 410, so you have to hope it titanforges.

[Cempa]

I think it's pretty obvious you haven't ran M+ if you think 415s drop that often. A +10 only drops a 400.

Even the weekly cache is only a base of 410, so you have to hope it titanforges.

You can spam them .. and yet due to the 'crzy' titan procs you will get close to 415 in no time .. Not to mention all the res you will get which is another item!

[RoKPaNda]

"People do mythic because they enjoy it" That's true, but when you can get mythic gear from afk in warfront, wf/tf in normal/heroic (not as uncommon as you think), in M+, and guaranteed off the weekly chest... it creates an apathy situation where most raiders are like "Why commit to playing 4-5x as much for mythic raiding when i can just afk through easy content and be equally geared by the end of the tier with 1/10th the effort?"

It's created a "why bother?" situation that has NEVER existed in mythic raiding before. Even in Legion, mythic raiding offered gear quality that existed nowhere else in game.

As for running a +10 being harder, get out of here with that. A heroic raid is going to be harder to put together ALONE than a M+, making it harder. Each boss alone with a pug can take longer than a M+ if you have to explain it.

A M+ is the barrier for timed achievement because it really isnt all that bad compared to organizing and running a raid. The logistics ALONE make it so raiding should get better gear.

Otherwise, why bother when you can just chain M+ with friends, and in the same time it would take to do a heroic raid where you may get 1-2 drops, you can chain run 6-10 M+ and a guaranteed weekly chest that is better than anything in game.

Yeah, contrary to what you think mythic raiders do it for prestige not JUST for fun. It's fun because it is hard and prestigious, but BFA took one of those elements away and look what's happened... raiding is on life support for the first time in WOW's history.

You're wrong though. Getting Mythic gear from warfronts and normal/heroic is much less common than you think. As per Ion it's about once per tier for normal on average. Less so for anything lower. Us Mythic raiders still outgear everyone else. The only people who come close are ones who are very hardcore about M+. Nobody is trivializing anything.

Now you're getting into the argument of logistics versus difficulty of content. Which by the way, no, a heroic raid still isn't harder. You put a group up in the group finder with requirements set, you invite people who meet those requirements, off you go. Explaining a fight in Heroic is as simple as explaining 2-3 mechanics at most in a chat message or on discord or whatever. Heroic raiding is a pug raid / casual guild difficulty. If you're doing 6-10 +10s in 2 hours you're definitely better than Heroic and should be doing Mythic tbh.

Again, raiding Mythic is still going to give you better gear overall.

I raid Mythic because it's fun. High end raiding hasn't been prestigious since BC tbh when it was a full time job just to raid. Hate to break it to you but raiding has been on life support for a very long time. Do you know why we have LFR and Normal and puggable heroic? Because the number of people that ever set foot into raids prior was tiny. The number of people that have ever done Mythic difficulty since it's inception is pretty tiny in the grand scheme of things. We're like 5ish percent of the playerbase.

[nToxik]

I can buy Mythic gear today from M+ .. It's being spammed on pretty much every active server.

Getting 415 from M+ is within the gold cost-reach of many .. And the lazy ones can just use a credit card for tokens!

I can buy myself into a Mythic raid today too. What's your point again?

[Jargathnan]

My guild is not even motivated to run Normal Jaina a 2nd time because the loot is so low compared to M+ 400s. We killed her once out of sheer luck on our first try, but no one wants to visit it again. Just a sad state of the current situation.

I’m not surprised by this. Endgame rewards are not designed around normal. I really need to go back and find where this was stated (maybe someone will have it readily available?), but Blizzard has said, when they restructured to the current LFR/normal/heroic/mythic model, that normal is meant to be puggable and isn’t what they envision organized guilds raiding. That’s what heroic is meant to be. As such, endgame rewards tend to be based around the ilvl of heroic. M10s and up, for example, drop the same ilvl loot at the end as heroic, with the weekly chest awarding a little better (but isn’t spammable of course).

[Jester Joe]

You can spam them .. and yet due to the 'crzy' titan procs you will get close to 415 in no time .. Not to mention all the res you will get which is another item!

I really think you don't do M+.

You can't spam for residuum by the way. To get a ton of residuum you'd have to do a really high key, which if it's so easy to do why aren't you? A +10 even isn't exactly a walk in the park.

And that's like saying you can get 410s from normal so normal shouldn't drop gear even close to that. A vast majority of the time, all you get from a +10 is a 400.

[kamuimac]

Yeah, funny.

That's implying that the boosters are universally 3rd worlders who can't afford to buy tokens they would turn into gold and buy consumables.

That's also implying that people making €50/hr are the majority players.

Or it's just plain bullshit and while you might find your example guy, it¨s nowhere near the norm as the OP implies.

majority ? definetly not.

but amount of constant spam in trade kind begs to ask question "if they wouldnt have buyers would they be spamming it like this ? "

[Jester Joe]

majority ? definetly not.

but amount of constant spam in trade kind begs to ask question "if they wouldnt have buyers would they be spamming it like this ? "

People buying carries doesn't mean that it's people buying tokens for gold.

It could easily be someone buying a carry for a fresh dinged toon.
Runs being sold doesn't mean they're being sold in the way OP is suggesting.

[Khallid]

Is it by design those who do only Mythic + have higher item level than those who only do Heroic Raid? The difference is about 10 to 15 ilvls. And if so, why? Is it not far more challenging putting a 25 man raid together aned keep it together and managing a guild than finding 4 players?

On my server, chat is filled with Mythic + boost ..

So, Blizz message to player base it Pay 2 Win? Buy Tokens and give gold to Mythic + boosters gets you gear better than Heroic Raiders?? WTF

You can also buy Heroic Raid boosts, or even Mythic Raid boosts. The system is not designed to be pay to win, but there are enough players willing to sell their services for gold. When you're a fully geared player, selling runs for gold becomes very profitable.

Heroic is flex. You don't need to run 25 players. Just any amount between 10 and 40. It's suddenly not so difficult.

High level keystones are actually harder to clear than Heroic level raid bosses (especially the first few raid bosses which are usually really easy). So the gear they drop isn't particularly crazy.

[Chromell]

Running a 25 man heroic guild means you will try mythic 25 man but that's beside the point. The effort and time needed to manage a guild of 30 or so raiders is huge!

The message is clear, 25 man guilds are second tier .. Simply pay boosters in game gold -via blizz store- and voila you better geared than heroic raiders in a fraction of the time!

Gear doesn't equal skill. And since you mentioned raiding, you can do Heroic raids with as many as 10 people. Subjecting yourself to the stress of managing a larger roster is entirely your choice.

Mythic+ has a time limit, even if you get gear regardless of the time, you still need to complete some of them quickly to up your keys to get the best gear (aka there's no rinse and repeat as there is in raiding, so less room for mistakes). Lastly, there's nothing wrong with selling boosts, it's within the game economy. This is also not pay to win since you still required the selling group (assume 4 people) to perform flawlessly in order to finish the dungeon.