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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post

    Is he oblivious?

    (i just made this thread because it worries me that Ion sees no problem at all...and there is just so much wrong with warmode, starting with this situation)
    The problem with wow devs has always been that they are not really playing their game and they are too politically correct to fix it.

    Ion be like "if you can make parties and horde can make parties then pvp is balanced and GG".

    His job seems to end where what players want begins.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Imagine advertising World PvP as one of your expansions selling features but not actually putting any effort in.

    Warmode is essentially a sharding toggle and that's it.



    Imagine if Warmode actually had effort put into it? If you could actually capture towns and objectives. I mean we had these features in fucking BC 10 years ago. Imagine if there was actually tangible rewards other than a single mount and title.



    PS. The title of this thread is also hilarious. Ion is oblivious to most of the realities of his own game.
    And that's the real irony of the situation. War Mode does toggle you into a different shard. So there's no legitimate reason to not have features like capturing towns or objectives.

    Either BfA's design team and director were too lazy, weak, or uncreative to add such features, or they put their dev time somewhere else. Since I don't believe that most of Blizzard's individual devs are stupid or lazy or weak(because if that was the case they probably wouldn't be employed), it leads me to believe that someone in a position of authority or command directed them to not invest time or effort into a fully-fleshed out World PVP system.

    Gosh...who could POSSIBLY be the person in charge of where devs focus their efforts, I wonder?

    :/
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    And that's the real irony of the situation. War Mode does toggle you into a different shard. So there's no legitimate reason to not have features like capturing towns or objectives.

    Either BfA's design team and director were too lazy, weak, or uncreative to add such features, or they put their dev time somewhere else. Since I don't believe that most of Blizzard's individual devs are stupid or lazy or weak(because if that was the case they probably wouldn't be employed), it leads me to believe that someone in a position of authority or command directed them to not invest time or effort into a fully-fleshed out World PVP system.

    Gosh...who could POSSIBLY be the person in charge of where devs focus their efforts, I wonder?

    :/
    I don't know. I look at BfA and all I can think is - low effort product.

    Everything about it screams rushed, lazy design. Including Warmode.


    I'll say it again. Ion may have been a great raid designer but fuck me is he an awful lead game designer. That being said....

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    I don't know. I look at BfA and all I can think is - low effort product.

    Everything about it screams rushed, lazy design. Including Warmode.
    The thing a lot of people tend to forget is that Legion was so good because they cut WoD short in order to work on it. In other words, dev time that should have been spent on WoD, making it better, was sacrificed and redirected towards Legion.

    I think it was Bellular who did a side by side comparison of content release by periods of time, looking at the difference between Legion and BfA. BfA is already behind Legion on content releases for the amount of time the expansion has been out.

    So that leads me to wonder if they're going to sacrifice BfA to start whatever the next expansion is, if 8.2 doesn't pan out. And to bring things back on topic: I really think that War Mode needs the kind of care and attention every other game-mechanic is getting in 8.2. Hopefully Mechagon and Nazjatar have actual PVP objectives to fight over in War Mode.

    And hopefully those zones have real WPVP mechanics to keep things more or less in balance, because the extra EXP and gold isn't a good system to mitigate population imbalance. Even the Tenacity buff from oldschool Wintergrasp was a better idea than that, and that's setting the bar REALLY low!
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The thing a lot of people tend to forget is that Legion was so good because they cut WoD short in order to work on it. In other words, dev time that should have been spent on WoD, making it better, was sacrificed and redirected towards Legion.

    I think it was Bellular who did a side by side comparison of content release by periods of time, looking at the difference between Legion and BfA. BfA is already behind Legion on content releases for the amount of time the expansion has been out.

    So that leads me to wonder if they're going to sacrifice BfA to start whatever the next expansion is, if 8.2 doesn't pan out. And to bring things back on topic: I really think that War Mode needs the kind of care and attention every other game-mechanic is getting in 8.2. Hopefully Mechagon and Nazjatar have actual PVP objectives to fight over in War Mode.

    And hopefully those zones have real WPVP mechanics to keep things more or less in balance, because the extra EXP and gold isn't a good system to mitigate population imbalance. Even the Tenacity buff from oldschool Wintergrasp was a better idea than that, and that's setting the bar REALLY low!
    Yeah I've referenced that Bellular video in the 8.2 speculation thread where they all claim 8.2 will launch late May or early June. BfA launched light on content and its 2 subsequent patches have both been light on content too. That's without speaking about the quality either.

    I get that Legion got a hell of a lot more dev time than your average expansion but it's 2019. We need to stop making excuses for Blizzard. They have had the most successful MMO on the market for 15 years and they boasted a year ago that their WoW team is the "biggest it's ever been". Why then did we get BfA?


    I think they should cut their losses with BfA and end it on a 8.2.5 but it doesn't look that way according to recent interviews with them mentioning 8.3 directly.


    They did mention Mechagon would be a "shit storm" for World PvP so hopefully we are getting some objectives or something to actually fight over.

    It's funny that Warmode is literally just a sharding switch and they still can't seem to work out how to keep the shards balanced.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    From a recent interview Ion seems to be oblivious about how players complete their World PvP quests:



    Ion admits in this quote that Blizzard DOESNT incentivize Raids being formed to complete World PvP quests.
    And he says that "what it feels right for everyone is party VS party or 5-man VS 5-man"

    Is he oblivious?

    What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
    Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.


    This is the reality of warmode, and using Ion's own words..."it doesnt feel right for anyone"
    Its simply a massacre of one raid killing/ganking one person at a time.
    And that person can do nothing about it.
    Because the only way to counter this is forming a raid and you cant complete quests or do anything in a raid

    -------

    I have a lot more to say about the situation of Warmode...but i dont want this post to be long.
    What do you guys think of the situation?

    (i just made this thread because it worries me that Ion sees no problem at all...and there is just so much wrong with warmode, starting with this situation)
    he is not oblivious . He is a manager who gets fat juicy qaterly bonuses for proving that the features he manages are succesfull.

    atm warmode is very succesfull and allience is finaly using it even if its for wrong reason .

    if i were you i wouldnt expect any changes to warmode. ever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The thing a lot of people tend to forget is that Legion was so good because they cut WoD short in order to work on it. In other words, dev time that should have been spent on WoD, making it better, was sacrificed and redirected towards Legion.

    I think it was Bellular who did a side by side comparison of content release by periods of time, looking at the difference between Legion and BfA. BfA is already behind Legion on content releases for the amount of time the expansion has been out.

    So that leads me to wonder if they're going to sacrifice BfA to start whatever the next expansion is, if 8.2 doesn't pan out. And to bring things back on topic: I really think that War Mode needs the kind of care and attention every other game-mechanic is getting in 8.2. Hopefully Mechagon and Nazjatar have actual PVP objectives to fight over in War Mode.

    And hopefully those zones have real WPVP mechanics to keep things more or less in balance, because the extra EXP and gold isn't a good system to mitigate population imbalance. Even the Tenacity buff from oldschool Wintergrasp was a better idea than that, and that's setting the bar REALLY low!
    they wont. BfA is very important test ground for AI for them before they intorduce it as key game changing feature of 9.0

    we will get a lot of content just paced out more evenly so they have time to work in AI.

    its not a coincidence that neither arathi nor darkshore had its HC versions - they just didnt make it in time with AI developement. look how proud was dev desribing how they plan for AI to work in HC stromgarde.

  7. #47
    I've never grouped up for invasions, it's useless anyway. If there is an ally bus, I just hide or run away

  8. #48
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
    Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.
    Told that long ago
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The solution is super easy. Any form of group in Warmode gets phased away to it's own cluster. With their sharding tech that they're super proud of forcing onto players, it should be easy to make this happen. You can even have it broken down further where raid groups are clustered together in a shard and parties up to 5 are together in a different shard. It's not a hard solution, Blizzard just doesn't care.
    I like this idea

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavll View Post
    I like this idea
    Most of the large trains of Alliance/Horde players that camp people are NOT grouped. It just happens. Several people happen upon a world quest concurrently, a random enemy faction player appears and get ganked. Those people feel good about it and keep control of the area. More people show up to do the world quests and when they see there are easy kills there, they stay. Unless the other side organizes a large group, the 2-3 people who show up to do the world quest just get ganked until people get bored and start leaving.
    Groups are not needed at all in this dynamic. If anything, groups and phasing is your way out of a shard with a train; pick a world quest in the area that allows for grouping, join another shard, do your quests then leave.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    we will get a lot of content just paced out more evenly so they have time to work in AI.
    So basically less content less often. How is this good, especially when Blizzard charges by the month? And to back things even further up, why did they release an expansion that's just a testbed. Are we going all the way back to paying to play a beta version of a game again, like so many other "games as a service" fiascos from other publishers/developers?

    Like Scarecrowz said: We, as the general playersbase, need to stop making excuses for Blizzard. Moreover, we need to stop being so accepting of half-baked content releases and expansion launches. I get that a game like WoW is exceedingly complex, but BfA is showing us that it basically launched too early. We're only just now getting a mostly complete product with 8.2, over 8 months after it's launch. Seriously...why the hell is that acceptable?

    War Mode is a perfect example of this. It's the skeleton or framework of a fully formed feature, but not an actual feature in and of itself. Granted, it's a framework with a LOT of potential. But Blizzard is selling us an empty cup while charging by the month on the promise that MAYBE later on, at some unknown future date, there will be something cool to fill it with.

    Warfronts and Islands have this exact same problem. Loads of potential, but half finished for months even after PTR and beta testers identified their lacking nature, while we pay Blizzard for them to work on it. Gamers will absolutely roast and shit all over products like Fallout 76 and Anthem for this type of behavior, but with Blizzard we praise them and continue to pay them for it. Why?

    Even if 8.2 fully addresses and completes these issues, it's still unforgivable to gate and charge for it during the previous 8 months.
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    This is the reality of a true World PvP'er (in my eyes)
    A person who does it SOLO and without any rewards (sadly)
    One of the few youtubers who is a true world pvp'er.

    You've been severely missing out since you seem to have overlooked Return the hunter and his friend CrusaderSev7n the paladin.

    But then again, they've basically stopped posting videos because BfA is in a pretty poor state.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    I nerver thought about that! That is brilliant! D:

    If more than 5 players tag a person it counts as a dishonorable kill!
    Making everyone disband and look for their own people to kill.

    Dude...you are brilliant.

    Was this what you were saying=?
    That doesn't solve anything, what happens when the group of 10 people are fighting with the other 10 players? Only 5 people are getting counts for a kill? That's just complicating WPvP/Warmode much more than it is right now.

  14. #54
    Immortal matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    I only made this thread because im pretty sure in the future Blizzard wants to create a reward structure for world pvp.
    When that day comes...it will be chaos.
    A chaos i wouldnt like to see :S

    If there isnt any sort of limitations like you said, kind sir.
    Blizzard has been trying to create reward structures for world pvp since Vanilla. And they have failed.

    Every.
    Single.
    Time.

    Why should I expect, after 15 years of failure, that that trend will suddenly reverse?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Klling a new born is not much morally different than a late term abortion. Should be avoided, but it's not like it is an actual person yet.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Warfronts and Islands have this exact same problem. Loads of potential, but half finished for months even after PTR and beta testers identified their lacking nature, while we pay Blizzard for them to work on it. Gamers will absolutely roast and shit all over products like Fallout 76 and Anthem for this type of behavior, but with Blizzard we praise them and continue to pay them for it. Why?
    We absolutely roast and shit all over Blizzard's products. And while people hated on Fallout 76 and Anthem, that also did not stop them for paying for them. There is NO double standard here, games can have a lot of vocal critics and a lot of customers and often those two groups might even intersect. It happens for all publishers.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    That doesn't solve anything, what happens when the group of 10 people are fighting with the other 10 players? Only 5 people are getting counts for a kill? That's just complicating WPvP/Warmode much more than it is right now.
    It also seems very counterintuitve for an MMO to discourage grouping.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Blizzard has been trying to create reward structures for world pvp since Vanilla. And they have failed.

    Every.
    Single.
    Time.

    Why should I expect, after 15 years of failure, that that trend will suddenly reverse?
    The 60 Conquest from Faction Assaults/more from chests is a pretty decent reward together with the Conquest system imo. Add the cosmetics for the medals and it is fairly well rounded. Add Call to Arms and Against Overwhelming Odds if it is on and you have a reason to do some world pvp.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Essentially yes, that would completely discourage more than 5 player groups from farming areas/people, it would also create tension between competing groups which would add more complexity to world PvP. Dishonorable could be a short debuff you get that prevents you from gaining honor in WPVP.
    Except for the fact that most of the time, ganging up on players is not for the honour points, but for griefing. Griefers don't give a shit about not getting honour points, and anyway if it were for points, BG are much, much more efficient.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Except for the fact that most of the time, ganging up on players is not for the honour points, but for griefing. Griefers don't give a shit about not getting honour points, and anyway if it were for points, BG are much, much more efficient.
    I think gank groups are just out there for Achievements/Conquest from Call to Arms.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    We absolutely roast and shit all over Blizzard's products. And while people hated on Fallout 76 and Anthem, that also did not stop them for paying for them. There is NO double standard here, games can have a lot of vocal critics and a lot of customers and often those two groups might even intersect. It happens for all publishers.
    The difference is that Fallout 76 and Anthem sales have tanked hard. People are not buying their garbage, but people continue to give WoW money. This is probably because FO76 and Anthem don't have players with 10+ years of investment in their accounts. The ONLY reason WoW is not in full on panic mode is because they have enough entrenched players to keep them rolling in profits no matter how bad the actual profits are.

    And that's what needs to stop. People need to pull the needle out and recognize the borderline stockholme syndrome behavior they've been exhibiting towards WoW and Blizzard. I mean, Christ....even the Star Wars fans aren't this bad when it comes to terrible game releases. What is it about WoW that keeps people throwing money at such a bad product?

    PVP is just one aspect of a larger problem with the game, and it's hard not to keep going off topic to the broader scope of the issue. Really, when you get down to it, what does WoW's world PVP even have? There's no leaderboards, no objectives, no real progression. It's just a hollow shell with a handful of meaningless achievements. What's the purpose of War Mode besides allowing grievers to spew toxicity all over the game by engaging in some of the worst and lowest forms of "PVP" in videogames?

    The entire concept and systems of WPVP needs to be taken out of the game until something with actual substance and meaning can replace it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    PVP is just one aspect of a larger problem, and it's hard not to keep going off topic to the broader scope of the issue. Really, when you get down to it, what does WoW's world PVP even have? There's no leaderboards, no objectives, no real progression. It's just a hollow shell with a handful of meaningless achievements. What's the purpose of War Mode besides allowing grievers to spew toxicity all over the game by engaging in some of the worst and lowest forms of "PVP" in videogames?

    The entire concept and systems of WPVP needs to be taken out of the game until something with actual substance and meaning can replace it. Even GW2's WvWvW is better. Warhammer Online, an extremely outdated and shut down game did WPVP better. ESO, ffs, does WPVP better than WoW.

    Simply allowing people to fight other players in what is otherwise a 100% PVE setting is a bad design. With all the other examples in other MMOs and various large-scale PVP games out there to draw from, there's no excuse for Blizzard to have no implemented something better.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-04-15 at 10:48 AM.
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