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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    It won't be pure wPvP. You just have to define specific stuff by its actual notion - to call a spade a spade. Understand what you want, find its "formed option", point your finger at that direction and say loud and confident: - I want this! - and then already you can explain in detail exactly what you mean by “this”, like some private trivia in connection with mechanics of current particular game. This doesn't negate your original desire, it just makes it more tangible.
    All i want for World PvP is to want to login to live a world pvp adventure.
    But raids VS one guy is not cool as Ion said.
    He says what is "healthy" is 5v5, parties fighting eachother.

    I kinda agree.

    But i also like a solo adventure.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i sometimes wonder why they dont turn it off. i mean is 10% more ap really worth this hassle and nerves ? i dont farm ap so couldnt give less fucks therefore
    i turned it off ages ago to not deal with organized ganking because there is nothing real that i could gain from it.
    I had it on at launch because no one could gank
    Got to 118 turned it off and only used it for the high rewards when they were introduced

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    In another part of the interview he pretends there is no issue with faction balance. Just because you see %'s does not mean the servers are healthy. When I was on Arthas it was SUICIDE for you to have warmode on as Alliance. Just the opposite on Stormrage where Horde are ganked immediately upon leaving a city with warmode on.

    Ion took the major issue of pvp server balance and spread it to pve servers then has the balls to call it some big accomplishment.
    Is faction imbalance even fixable? This has been a thing since world PVP was added to the game. Every time they've made efforts to balance things out, it's the players who just do whatever they can to circumvent the checks and balances to gain whatever insignificant advantage they could, and that ends up upsetting the balance once again. It's not even always in favour of one side.

    Honestly I think this is world PVP working as intended. It's a lot more like the South Shore/Tarren Mill days of domination. You either joined the overwhelming force or you were steamrolled as a result. World PVP was never about faction balance, it was always about waving the EPEEN when you're on the winning side..

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Is faction imbalance even fixable? This has been a thing since world PVP was added to the game. Every time they've made efforts to balance things out, it's the players who just do whatever they can to circumvent the checks and balances to gain whatever insignificant advantage they could, and that ends up upsetting the balance once again. It's not even always in favour of one side.

    Honestly I think this is world PVP working as intended. It's a lot more like the South Shore/Tarren Mill days of domination. You either joined the overwhelming force or you were steamrolled as a result. World PVP was never about faction balance, it was always about waving the EPEEN when you're on the winning side..
    I think you are right. Faction imbalance is extremely if not impossible to balance.
    Because it must take in consideration where the players are.

    If one faction decides to do a raid south of the map...the other raid of the other faction could be on north of the map how can this be balanced

  5. #105
    WPvP did have incentive back in the day. The incentive was to kick the crap out of rival guilds and get bragging rights. (most) Guilds aren't groups of friends any more and people do not tend to want to do socially cooperative things like WPvP anymore. We all want our shiny carrot at the end of the stick to do anything in game.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Warmode isn't a new thing, you've always been able to swap between PvE servers and PvP servers... but you used to have to pay for the privilege.
    Now you just head to your capital and swap server type.

    That's all ... people complaining about having more choice and paying Blizzard less money are missing the point

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    Incorrect - Warmode will be ENABLED, but it will still be up to you to toggle it ON or OFF.
    And has Blizz confirmed this, because for War Mode, "enabled" means it IS on. Why would Blizz even explicitly need to explain you can War Mode there when you can War Mode everywhere? And then a point was made of a neutral hub.

  7. #107
    I think warmode is a fantastic system, and has absolutely helped the world pvp situation tremendously.

    If it’s something I didn’t truly enjoy, I’d think it’d be a very clear-cut solution of just turning it off.

    The small bonus to AP wouldn’t be worth the aggravation IMO, and if absolutely maxing out AP happened to be the sole reason someone was playing this game, I would imagine they’re merely speeding themselves towards inevitable burnout, and are miserable regardless.
    Stoneskin, Mana Spring, Wrath of Air, Totem of Wrath...

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    All i want for World PvP is to want to login to live a world pvp adventure.
    But raids VS one guy is not cool as Ion said.
    He says what is "healthy" is 5v5, parties fighting eachother.

    I kinda agree.

    But i also like a solo adventure.
    The problem with this desire stems from trying to apply a PVE point of view to a PVP environment. In PVE our characters are the heroes. We casually walk our way through challenges and enemies without much effort. And even if you die, you just respawn and try again, eventually winning. There is almost no PVE content that won't eventually be utterly defeated by repeated attempts. Victory is guaranteed.

    The difference with PVP is that players don't just stay defeated. They get back up and come at you again and again. Victory is NOT guaranteed. In fact if you go out solo trying to be a "hero" especially in an RPG where personal skill takes a back seat to raw stats, you might NEVER win. No amount of heroism or skill at playing is going to let 1 player defeat 20.

    So creating a solo adventure in a PVP environment is basically impossible. Even if you could somehow do it, it would be , at best, creating that experience at the expense of another player. And at worst, creating that experience at the expense of MANY players, making it a net loss.

    However, that doesn't mean that there can't be systems in place to help mitigate the worst types of experiences. Other games do it. The problem is that Blizzard isn't even trying. They're just playing games with incentives for WPVP instead of trying to actually address the fundamental flaws with slapping a PVP game mode onto a PVE environment.

    When people tell you "form a group" or "just turn off War Mode", that doesn't actually address the problems with War Mode. It AVOIDS the symptoms of war mode, certainly. But it doesn't actually help solve the underlying problems with it. And the fact that so many people don't understand that difference is troubling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtsinchaos View Post
    I think warmode is a fantastic system, and has absolutely helped the world pvp situation tremendously.
    In what ways?

    I mean, giving incentives to turning on War Mode definitely gets more players into the pool, but how does War Mode actually improve the underlying PVP system?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazr View Post
    And has Blizz confirmed this, because for War Mode, "enabled" means it IS on.
    No Warmode enabled means exactly what enabled means ... it means it is available for the user to toggle.
    Standard English usage of the word enabled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    but how does War Mode actually improve the underlying PVP system?
    By removing the cost barrier to switching between PvE and PvP server type - more people who want to enter will be in it, and less people who don't want to be will be.

    Boycotting Blizzard is like a lactose intolerant person boycotting milk purchases to protest about cruelty to cows, then eating his hamburger whilst doing so.
    If you want to protest against China - then do something meaningful and protest against China

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post



    By removing the cost barrier to switching between PvE and PvP server type - more people who want to enter will be in it, and less people who don't want to be will be.
    That improves the accessibility to World PvP, but not WPVP itself. There's some tangential benefit to being able to opt out of PVP for players from old PVP servers, but PVE servers always had that option with the added benefit of being able to unflag anywhere at any time.

    That sounds like no net gain. So again I ask: How does War Mode improve the fundamental, underlying quality of world PVP? Because as far as I can tell it actually doesnt. Even the incentives to PVP are PVE oriented in the form of gold and AP! The PVP rewards of honor points are virtually no different than before.

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    It's not like the game has never had WPVP quests before either. All War Mode really does is give us a new UI. It's superficial. A reskin that doesn't actually change WPVP at all.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-04-17 at 01:57 AM.

  11. #111
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    All War Mode really does is give us a new UI. It's superficial. A reskin that doesn't actually change WPVP at all.
    *giggled* do you mind if I add links of your last couple of messages here to my last one (of course, I'll add them anyway, but just wanted to do it some kind more officially)
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-04-17 at 07:09 AM.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I had it on at launch because no one could gank
    Got to 118 turned it off and only used it for the high rewards when they were introduced
    erm thats not what i mean - i level up every toon in WM since nobody is gakinging anyway outside of few quest hubs because allience only swarms to 1 spot when they have 50 people in one place and can go 50 vs 1 .

    i mean in endgame - whats the point of keeping it for shitty ap increase. what you will get 1 extra level of neck out of it ? wow such a change.

    still the real warmode will start in mechagon - 1 zone for 2 fractions cannot wait for this shitshow and allienc whining when they no longer have advantage of 50 vs 1 .

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    wait a second, what i described is fun and engaging?

    All i did on my monk alt to complete Overwhelming Odds quest was do 1 ranged ability on people while other 50 alliances killed them....
    you're talking about one quest. i'm talking about world pvp as a whole right now

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    erm thats not what i mean - i level up every toon in WM since nobody is gakinging anyway outside of few quest hubs because allience only swarms to 1 spot when they have 50 people in one place and can go 50 vs 1 .

    i mean in endgame - whats the point of keeping it for shitty ap increase. what you will get 1 extra level of neck out of it ? wow such a change.

    still the real warmode will start in mechagon - 1 zone for 2 fractions cannot wait for this shitshow and allienc whining when they no longer have advantage of 50 vs 1 .
    I mean it's not going to be forced PVP and a lot of the HUD will be protected by guards plus you have to take into account that most players there will simply be there to collect stuff.

    the end game reward for war mode is essentially the resources the gold and the neck power which was very powerful in the beginning of the game now not so much and it's just easier for people to leave it on instead of switching in and out which is fine a lot of the players I know are always in war mode and why not when you can essentially get free honor when a couple little horry's try to come by as boomkins and kill you and you just reflect all of their magic and burn them down because there's a s*** at playing the game

    Besides wasn't horde bitching once the invasion started because of the bonuses that the alliance got for being outnumbered which kind of takes the whole 50 versus one in the alliance favor theory and throws it out the window

  15. #115
    Dear Ion,

    Warmode is bullshit.

    Thanks,
    dusel

  16. #116
    Pandaren Monk roboscorcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    None of this is specific to Warmode. It's a problem with world PvP in general.
    Uh...Warmode *is* world PvP.

    And Warmode is definitely worse for raidgroup zergs now than in the past few years. There are too many incentives to do it now, and no real alternatives (except turning PvP off).

    Blizz needs to put raidgroups into their own shards, where they can fight other raids. No more of this 1 vs 100 crap.

  17. #117
    If I can solo a 2.5M+ HP mob down to about 300k and have it suddenly be phased out mid combat despite not joining a group nor inviting anyone to my party...

    I think we can have forced parity for warmode. Even if it means phasing group members out from each other because an enemy faction person leaves the area.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  18. #118
    I never would turn on warmode. Because i love my mental health.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Its not a problem of sharding.
    It is. Troll elsewhere.

    If there are 40 alliance within 100 yards of me, but there are not 39 horde, it is a sharding issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RushRush View Post
    People have always had this unrealistic idea of world pvp, maybe it's because those fancy, cherry-picked pvp videos? Who knows.

    Whenever I run around with WM on these days horde either ignore me unless they outnumber me and I'm dead. At that point I could form a group and repay the favour or move on with what I was doing in the first place.

    On the plus side I think WM is actually a success, there sure as hell is more world pvp now than before. From time to time there are some great battles, usually when theres an invasion up.
    That's because you play alliance, and it is known that the horde players are generally greater skill, as seen with raid and M+ stats.

    If you played horde you'd find that due to the extreme lack of skill on the alliance side and inability therefore to complete higher content than LFR, may alliance have nothing else to do in the game but harass people trying to do WQs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    I rarely encounter raids in warmode. Don't make it look like it's the norm.
    Ah yes, surely we should take 1 outlier case as the norm, rather than the proven facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    I only made this thread because im pretty sure in the future Blizzard wants to create a reward structure for world pvp.
    When that day comes...it will be chaos.
    A chaos i wouldnt like to see :S

    If there isnt any sort of limitations like you said, kind sir.
    I mean they already gave out top end raid gear as a world PVP reward, to players violating the ToS for griefing.


    The added guards to flight paths are bugged on many levels.
    1. They usually are yellow, which means friendly people to that flight path can accidentally attack them when running by.
    2. They spawn out of warmode via proximity.
    3. They do too little damage.

    A 40 man raid should be wiped in 30 seconds or less if triggering guards at a flight point.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    In what ways?

    I mean, giving incentives to turning on War Mode definitely gets more players into the pool, but how does War Mode actually improve the underlying PVP system?
    You mentioned a big part of how world pvp is now the best it has been in over a decade, and that’s the incentive of actually getting more people to participate. I feel like, for a long time, folks didn’t have solid motivation to put themselves in a situation where they are at direct conflict with a member of the opposite faction, and warmode directly helps fill that void.

    I’ve been ganked by groups of horde, and because these situations occurred while I was completing world quests, I was able to find others who were looking to hit back, either through group finder or just simply general chat. These battles, more often than not, turn out to be quite epic, mainly because once one side begins getting the upper hand, it pretty much causes the other group to continue to accumulate members.

    If your sole goal in this game is to simply get quests done with no pvp interaction, you’d simply have to play with WM turned off, which Blizz had made incredibly simple to do in any rest area of your choosing.
    Stoneskin, Mana Spring, Wrath of Air, Totem of Wrath...

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