Ion is oblivious to the reality of Warmode?

[youswas]

world pvp is fun and engaging in a way it has not been in years. posts like this are going to ruin one of the best things about BFA. we're gonna get some watered down shit in the future because of people like you

[Big Thanks]

world pvp is fun and engaging in a way it has not been in years. posts like this are going to ruin one of the best things about BFA. we're gonna get some watered down shit in the future because of people like you

wait a second, what i described is fun and engaging?

All i did on my monk alt to complete Overwhelming Odds quest was do 1 ranged ability on people while other 50 alliances killed them....

[Belloc]

What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.

As someone with Warmode enabled... I literally never do this. The only time I'm in a group is when the quests I'm doing happen to be in the CtA zone and someone invites me because they see me in the area. The majority of people I see questing out in the wild are solo players.

The reality of the situation is not what you think it is.

[seleri]

World PvP has never and will never be balanced. If you want a "fair" fight do BGs or arena. The only solution to what you have a problem with would be to make war mode something you have to queue for which seems incredibly unlikely and would likely do more harm than good. Even if WPvP was ffa instead of HvA, you'd still have people grouping up and ganking smaller groups.

Because of that though, bonuses from war mode should be removed. It's ludicrous that I can level my Horde characters 10% faster with absolutely no risk involved. Even on the week where Alliance got a ilevel 400 item, I only died once.

[Big Thanks]

As someone with Warmode enabled... I literally never do this. The only time I'm in a group is when the quests I'm doing happen to be in the CtA zone and someone invites me because they see me in the area. The majority of people I see questing out in the wild are solo players.

The reality of the situation is not what you think it is.

you do the overwhelming odds quest alone?

[Zyky]

The solution is super easy. Any form of group in Warmode gets phased away to it's own cluster. With their sharding tech that they're super proud of forcing onto players, it should be easy to make this happen. You can even have it broken down further where raid groups are clustered together in a shard and parties up to 5 are together in a different shard. It's not a hard solution, Blizzard just doesn't care.

[Belloc]

you do the overwhelming odds quest alone?

Sometimes, yes, sometimes, no. I try to get as much of it done by myself, but Horde tends to make that hard. Fortunately, it's not usually an issue since I've only had that quest active 3 or 4 times. Also, that quest makes up a small fraction of the amount of questing I do with Warmode enabled.

[Flurryfang]

From a recent interview Ion seems to be oblivious about how players complete their World PvP quests:



Ion admits in this quote that Blizzard DOESNT incentivize Raids being formed to complete World PvP quests.
And he says that "what it feels right for everyone is party VS party or 5-man VS 5-man"

Is he oblivious?

What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.

This is the reality of warmode, and using Ion's own words..."it doesnt feel right for anyone"
Its simply a massacre of one raid killing/ganking one person at a time.
And that person can do nothing about it.
Because the only way to counter this is forming a raid and you cant complete quests or do anything in a raid

-------

I have a lot more to say about the situation of Warmode...but i dont want this post to be long.
What do you guys think of the situation?

(i just made this thread because it worries me that Ion sees no problem at all...and there is just so much wrong with warmode, starting with this situation)

Ion proberly just acknowled, that the fantasy of WPVP also involves stomping people in big raids, just as much it is ganking people in 1vs1 combat.

If you remove the ability to group up, you are moving closer and closer to instanced PVP and then people will just complain, that they are being limited.

Also, he is pretty much right. Aside from hunting players for fun, the game does not incentives raid group PVP. If you go to an Assualt area, you can do none of the quests in a raid, which means that you have to choose between killing players or doing a rewarding objective.

Finally, i think most players does not really experience pillaging raid groups. I rarely see them and often they leave after 1-2 min, so that i can return to my questing.

[Bangdingow]

I like warmode. Also, I've never come across a PVP raid size group in the open world.

[SirCowdog]

None of this is specific to Warmode. It's a problem with world PvP in general.

It's a problem with Blizzard's terrible, halfassed, ill-considered, lazy world PVP that's slapped on as an afterthought.

WPVP isn't in the game because it makes the game better. It's there to fill a checkbox of what games as a service are supposed to have. It's always been halfassed, except for the few barebones attempts like Wintergrasp or Tol Barad, to do something new and interesting. And even that failed miserably, or turned into instanced battlegrounds.

They need to take the entire WPVP idea back to the drawingboard. Start from scratch. Make it a full-fledged feature, and not something tacked on to PVE.

[Big Thanks]

Ion proberly just acknowled, that the fantasy of WPVP also involves stomping people in big raids, just as much it is ganking people in 1vs1 combat.

If you remove the ability to group up, you are moving closer and closer to instanced PVP and then people will just complain, that they are being limited.

Also, he is pretty much right. Aside from hunting players for fun, the game does not incentives raid group PVP. If you go to an Assualt area, you can do none of the quests in a raid, which means that you have to choose between killing players or doing a rewarding objective.

Finally, i think most players does not really experience pillaging raid groups. I rarely see them and often they leave after 1-2 min, so that i can return to my questing.

He still didnt aknowledge the reality of the consequences of giving World PvP quests with rewards.

And if in the future Blizzard is to release a decent reward structure for World PvP (and it will) IF they dont aknowledge this.......it will be chaos in the world...of warcraft.

[Flurryfang]

He still didnt aknowledge the reality of the consequences of giving World PvP quests with rewards.

And if in the future Blizzard is to release a decent reward structure for World PvP (and it will) IF they dont aknowledge this.......it will be chaos in the world...of warcraft.

What do you think are the negative consequences of giving WPVP quest rewards?

[potis]

PS. The title of this thread is also hilarious. Ion is oblivious to most of the realities of his own game.

I would take someone with a lawyer degree,

ex-everquest hardcore raider

and then literally one of the founders of theorycrafting in WoW Vanilla and because of his influence he ended up as THE GAME DESIGNER of said game

over any of the complaining LFR hero scrubs on these forums EVERY.SINGLE.DAY IN ANY REALITY.

Even when the game is in a annoying state of AP farming of WQs and raid logging, its better than anything this forum can come up with.

Only when mmo-champion links B.net accounts and characters to usernames, we can start having real conversations in here.

If we followed mmo-champion we would have:

Rank 14 in 1 Honor kill AS LONG AS ITS IN WPVP, no one has time to grind!

Arena ratings and transmog, what the fuck is this, I CAN ONLY DO 30APM, HOW WILL I GET 1800 RATING, PUT THE TRANSMOG AT 600 RATING.

LFR/HC/Mythic deleted, Normal nerfed by 90%.

20 DUNGEONS RELEASED EVERY WEEK, but no more than 2 bosses, no time for a dungeon for more than 10mins, the kid might wake up.

Patch notes will always be called 1.12.XX version.

No item levels, everyone gets the same items, even at M+1 and M+30 cause its unfair we all pay the same 13e but people get better items.

No level past 60, and make sure that 1-60 lasts 1 YEAR FOR EVERYONE to get, because i can only play 2h/week, so its unfair they level faster than me, CAUSE ITS ALL ABOUT THE AMAZING LEVELING EXPERIENCE OF KILLING 0/8 BOARS.

[potis]

Ion. Great raid designer. Terrible lead game designer.

Indeed, glad you accept that, and now next step is to realize WoW is only about raiding and getting to raiding and nothing else, everything else is stuff to keep the majority to pay 13e without actually playing the game.

[potis]

I mean he is essentially on record saying that he wanted to "frontload most of the games difficulty into encounters".

Which explains how neutered general class gameplay has become.

I cannot disagree 100% about classes, but i have said it before.

Whining about GCD? I can accept it, it annoys me out, makes things a bit clunky after so long without it, but it hasnt changed things that much, instead of a macro with Ability/Racial/Trinket at "Pull timer 0", you press your CD/Trinket at "Pull timer 1".

Classes reached this point slowly over the crying of the community and the conversion of the game from MMORPG to MMOARPG, which is again, 90% community fault for always crying about others having more than them, 10% is on Blizzard because they cant say "Fuck off and play the game as intended" and caved in.

I do not agree with all class changes but at the same time 99% of the game population cant even play this iterations that they consider "Easier and simple".

[SirCowdog]

Imagine advertising World PvP as one of your expansions selling features but not actually putting any effort in.

Warmode is essentially a sharding toggle and that's it.



Imagine if Warmode actually had effort put into it? If you could actually capture towns and objectives. I mean we had these features in fucking BC 10 years ago. Imagine if there was actually tangible rewards other than a single mount and title.



PS. The title of this thread is also hilarious. Ion is oblivious to most of the realities of his own game.

And that's the real irony of the situation. War Mode does toggle you into a different shard. So there's no legitimate reason to not have features like capturing towns or objectives.

Either BfA's design team and director were too lazy, weak, or uncreative to add such features, or they put their dev time somewhere else. Since I don't believe that most of Blizzard's individual devs are stupid or lazy or weak(because if that was the case they probably wouldn't be employed), it leads me to believe that someone in a position of authority or command directed them to not invest time or effort into a fully-fleshed out World PVP system.

Gosh...who could POSSIBLY be the person in charge of where devs focus their efforts, I wonder?

:/

[SirCowdog]

I don't know. I look at BfA and all I can think is - low effort product.

Everything about it screams rushed, lazy design. Including Warmode.

The thing a lot of people tend to forget is that Legion was so good because they cut WoD short in order to work on it. In other words, dev time that should have been spent on WoD, making it better, was sacrificed and redirected towards Legion.

I think it was Bellular who did a side by side comparison of content release by periods of time, looking at the difference between Legion and BfA. BfA is already behind Legion on content releases for the amount of time the expansion has been out.

So that leads me to wonder if they're going to sacrifice BfA to start whatever the next expansion is, if 8.2 doesn't pan out. And to bring things back on topic: I really think that War Mode needs the kind of care and attention every other game-mechanic is getting in 8.2. Hopefully Mechagon and Nazjatar have actual PVP objectives to fight over in War Mode.

And hopefully those zones have real WPVP mechanics to keep things more or less in balance, because the extra EXP and gold isn't a good system to mitigate population imbalance. Even the Tenacity buff from oldschool Wintergrasp was a better idea than that, and that's setting the bar REALLY low!

[kamuimac]

From a recent interview Ion seems to be oblivious about how players complete their World PvP quests:



Ion admits in this quote that Blizzard DOESNT incentivize Raids being formed to complete World PvP quests.
And he says that "what it feels right for everyone is party VS party or 5-man VS 5-man"

Is he oblivious?

What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.

This is the reality of warmode, and using Ion's own words..."it doesnt feel right for anyone"
Its simply a massacre of one raid killing/ganking one person at a time.
And that person can do nothing about it.
Because the only way to counter this is forming a raid and you cant complete quests or do anything in a raid

-------

I have a lot more to say about the situation of Warmode...but i dont want this post to be long.
What do you guys think of the situation?

(i just made this thread because it worries me that Ion sees no problem at all...and there is just so much wrong with warmode, starting with this situation)

he is not oblivious . He is a manager who gets fat juicy qaterly bonuses for proving that the features he manages are succesfull.

atm warmode is very succesfull and allience is finaly using it even if its for wrong reason .

if i were you i wouldnt expect any changes to warmode. ever.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing a lot of people tend to forget is that Legion was so good because they cut WoD short in order to work on it. In other words, dev time that should have been spent on WoD, making it better, was sacrificed and redirected towards Legion.

I think it was Bellular who did a side by side comparison of content release by periods of time, looking at the difference between Legion and BfA. BfA is already behind Legion on content releases for the amount of time the expansion has been out.

So that leads me to wonder if they're going to sacrifice BfA to start whatever the next expansion is, if 8.2 doesn't pan out. And to bring things back on topic: I really think that War Mode needs the kind of care and attention every other game-mechanic is getting in 8.2. Hopefully Mechagon and Nazjatar have actual PVP objectives to fight over in War Mode.

And hopefully those zones have real WPVP mechanics to keep things more or less in balance, because the extra EXP and gold isn't a good system to mitigate population imbalance. Even the Tenacity buff from oldschool Wintergrasp was a better idea than that, and that's setting the bar REALLY low!

they wont. BfA is very important test ground for AI for them before they intorduce it as key game changing feature of 9.0

we will get a lot of content just paced out more evenly so they have time to work in AI.

its not a coincidence that neither arathi nor darkshore had its HC versions - they just didnt make it in time with AI developement. look how proud was dev desribing how they plan for AI to work in HC stromgarde.

[vashe9]

I've never grouped up for invasions, it's useless anyway. If there is an ally bus, I just hide or run away

[Alkizon]

What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.

Told that long ago