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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Essentially yes, that would completely discourage more than 5 player groups from farming areas/people, it would also create tension between competing groups which would add more complexity to world PvP. Dishonorable could be a short debuff you get that prevents you from gaining honor in WPVP.
    Do you think those people care about honor? I think they are just bored and somehow having fun killing 1 player....

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by stross01 View Post
    "War Mode is enabled in Mechagon, but the central hub is neutral and you will be attacked by guards if you initiate combat with the opposite faction. The turrets are not PvP enabled, but it seems like Ion wanted them to be now that Taliesin mentioned it."

    I'd think it was forced because Blizzard forced it on. Just a guess though.
    No. You read too much into it. All they were saying was that you could toggle it on and off in Mechagon. I really don't think they're gonna make a zone like that pvp only

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Lythelia View Post
    WM is a great feature. It's a lot of fun and makes the world a bit more threatening on the whole. My only complaint is that they're not capitalizing on it more with more features. Though, that might change with 8.2.
    It's a great feature that should exist without incentives other than PvP talents and honor gains.

  4. #84
    World PvP has always been an afterthought because there's no point in putting resources into something so volatile and impossible to balance.

    War mode wasn't added to promote world PvP, war mode was added to help the people that had a lot of characters stuck on a PvP server but wanted to opt out of world PvP without paying a load of money to transfer and it accomplished that. People thinking otherwise and wanting war mode to do anything beyond letting you attack the opposite faction are the oblivious ones.

  5. #85
    i don't think it's too bad considering how it's been for a long time.
    if you mix in the invasions with the control points that give you a zone wide buff of old(extra graveyards,damage done etc.).

    players behaving like shit because they don't really wan't to play the game isn't really that easy to balance it around.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    People feeling obliged to complete these quests for said rewards, then they'll flood various forums with "WoW feels like a second job and a chore" and "blizzard is forcing me to do pvp" posts
    So because it's part of PvP it's a chore?

    What about PvPers feeling obliged to do terrible WQs, Emissaries, Warfronts and IEs?

    ^Those are all poorly designed PvE slogfests that are mind-numblingly boring.

  7. #87
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    promotes what i said

    Raids killing solo innocent players
    Don't really see what raids killing solo players have to do with WPVP rewards? O.o They are as far as possible from each other.

    Besides, people have to have something to do and adding quests somewhat creates that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    People feeling obliged to complete these quests for said rewards, then they'll flood various forums with "WoW feels like a second job and a chore" and "blizzard is forcing me to do pvp" posts
    Have not really met anybody before who felt like it was an obligation to do the quests. Have heard it was a problem for top tier mythic people, but thats it. There are just so many sources of gear nowadays, that if you don't want to do pvp, you can do SO much else.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  8. #88
    the only issue i have with warmode is that summoning people with it on/off is fucking retarded

  9. #89
    Bloodsail Admiral Evaddon's Avatar
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    This isn't Blizzards problem, or a Warmode problem. Its a player mentality problem.
    If they penalized raid pvp, people will bitch, if they don't people will bitch.

    How about you get into a raid do the same thing, I've found tons of enjoyment going Raid Against Raid, even situations were it felt like a battle, and we used strategies to overwhelm and catch the other raid off guard. Hell I've even just made 5-mans and PVP'd areas during zone attacks while doing the quest, and had...zero problems. So don't be afraid to group up with people and make friends. Its an MMO afterall.

    Side note, i hardly see pvp raids anymore lol

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Don't really see what raids killing solo players have to do with WPVP rewards? O.o They are as far as possible from each other.

    Besides, people have to have something to do and adding quests somewhat creates that.
    WPvp rewards is an incentive to do world pvp.
    Players will always choose the path of least resistance

    Therefore, raids

  11. #91
    10% extra rewards is 10% less time doing WQ in the long run. Good outweighs the bad

  12. #92
    Elemental Lord Flutterguy's Avatar
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    WPVP has never been balanced and the most memorable WPVP was always with raid groups beating on each other. Ion is just stupid in this regard.

  13. #93
    No problem whatsoever with having multiple parties farming\ganking in the same quest areas. Makes sense, particularly in Invasion WQs.

    What i had a BIG problem with was the lack of adequate guards at the major hubs on each area, but that was fixed recently. Thankfully. If you now get ganked on the major hubs like Terace of the Devoted or Vulpera Hideaway in Vol'dun, lvl 120+ guards keep popping up and can actually kill the players, which is great.

  14. #94
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    I would honestly say without any extra qualification that Ion Hozikostas is 95% of the problem with WoW in all forms. He doesn't listen, pushes bad game systems, doubles down on bad game systems, lawyer-soeaks player feedback, and generally doesn't respect the intelligence of his audience. Worse than that, the man has zero idea of what fun looks like.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  15. #95
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    WPvp rewards is an incentive to do world pvp.
    Players will always choose the path of least resistance

    Therefore, raids
    I get that people will do things in raids if they are allowed to, since it makes things faster...
    But ain't it impossible to do the WPVP quests in raids? Or am i missing something?
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  16. #96
    Of course not, he is just intentionally turning a blind eye to reality, like a lackey.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    I get that people will do things in raids if they are allowed to, since it makes things faster...
    But ain't it impossible to do the WPVP quests in raids? Or am i missing something?
    You didnt read the OP its unlike you Flurryfang, you are always a "sir" in this forums

    What players do is make a party of 5.......and join the other 10 parties of 5 players doing the killing in the same location.
    Having the same results of forming a raid to complete the quest.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Ion has this imaginary vision of Vanilla WoW prior to Arenas. What he fails to remember is there was relative faction balance there ANDDDDD in the later years on private servers people figured out camping flight points were more efficient then mindless searching for people in a zone.



    I promise you right now when Classic comes out flight points will be camped because it is more efficient because that is what they do on private servers.
    This right here.

    FPs are the easiest thing to camp and these "raids" he talks about are a symptom of that. "Oh hey, there's a FP that will see a constant flow of people but it's completely unguarded. Time to set up camp and get those easy kills before the opposite faction decides to actually fight back."

    The biggest issue of that is, it's also one with the easiest solution that Blizzard is just blind to; Strong Faction NPC guards and penalties. Have the guards there on the FP that will instantly attack you if you kill someone within their range. Have those guards be extremely powerful, immune to CC and get out of combat abilities like Vanish / Feign Death, and also have them be able to detect stealth, breaking anyone out of it that ventures near them.

    Additionally, have punishments in place for killing both the players in that area as well as the guards. 10% reduction in HP, healing taken, damage output per enemy killed coming off the FP. Could have the old dishonorable kill come back with a 30 sec - 1 min timer upon landing. If you're killed with that, the debuff activates and can't be removed easily; either having a fairly long CD or even on death removal. For the NPCs, cut the reduction debuff down to 5% instead.

    Doing that will get people off the FPs and back out into the world, where roaming gangs will still exist, but will encounter people a lot less often.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Its not a problem of sharding.
    Blizzard already has a working technology balancing the amount of people on the same shard (or so they say)

    The problem is that the shard system doesnt take in consideration the exact location where people are.
    So if there are 20 people in one flight point on the map...the other 20 people of the opposing faction may be somewhere else.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Turning off warmode wont make this problem go away.

    Imagine in the future Blizzard wants to create a reward structure for World PvP.
    REWARDS FOR EVERYONE!

    It will be chaos in the world and we will just end up with "squads" ganking innocent people.
    The innocent ppl can turn it off
    Or
    Join a party

  20. #100
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    WPvp rewards is an incentive to do world pvp
    Well... how much it has to be explained same thing? wPvP doesn't need rewards, it's spontaneous and unplanned process (at least from one side, since combat is not a “demand”, but a free choice in a closed world, but when both parties know that the only rule of this world requires fight, it cancels freedom of choice, and therefore everything else about "wPvP") arising from banal clash of interests, curiosity (initiative here is completely left to player) and is carried out on rules of the world, where it happens (without seams, solid, taking into account world NPC's and area geography, professions/"silly" items and attracting passers-by, without choice toggles)... and now attention! WM isn't wPvP.

    It has completely different rules, another organization. "Organized” clashes occurring in designated areas, planned by devs (in fact, this is BG, but not a war for resources or a temporary place of deployment), such as defending a castle/war(fight) for profit&gain&rewards documented by game isn't wPvP for exactly same reason, but conditional “caravans/travelers robbery/killing” is the things what you're talking about... but not the stuff you want.

    When will you understand this? Don't interpret/perceive WM as wPvP, because it's not, never was and, judging lack of understanding among devs in this matter, will never be. PvP servers are wPvP, but not WM - it's just a fight territory with duplication of quests and world (which basically just for scenery) which designed to give you rewards for this activity, it doesn't ask about your choice, just comand/demand the war.

    You don't need WM for wPvP, you don't need rewards for wPvP, you'll be disturbed by shards/mode-toggle/phasing/CRZ/(flying?) during wPvP, you need closed servers with rules that allow this wPvP to exist (just as important how world is organized, movement system within it, design of leveling up and quests, classes design and much much more). That's all! But now you are deprived of such, and no matter how much you whine about injustice of life, this won't change facts above.

    If you want (guilds')war for hubs/castles - ask for them to be designed! If you want balanced groups within a specific territory, even with PvE stuff - ask about BG *point on AV* or some kind of $hitty Ashran! All that being required of you is not to ask wPvP from devs, but specific stuff, because they don't even clearly understand what you want from them! Do you know why? Because you yourself are the ones, who don't ...in the end, what you're asking for has taken place also in vanilla and BC, WotLK had a couple of such territories, but it was all “organized/documented and it was rewarded”, which means again that it wasn’t... what? pure wPvP! At least it was without shards/mode-toggle/phasing/CRZ disgrace *hush angrily*

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    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-04-16 at 12:31 PM.
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