8.2 content: pointless with current class design

[Armourboy]

Eh my bigger issue is they seemingly keep removing the options I liked to play, mostly for balance and easier management for them. Really liked Blood dps, took that out. Enjoyed the heck out of 2 handed Frost, took that out. Loved the Glad warrior spec in WoD, took that out. Loved the faster pace of swing 1 handers as a fury warrior going as far back as TBC, took that out. Loved Fire mage in Legion, now it feels like a neutered version. Loved Elemental Shaman in MoP, been pretty meh since then. Really liked affliction locks until legion hit, I hate UA as a shard dump. Screwed up Holy Paladin for years with the holy power mess.

I've just had no luck over the years and trying to find something enjoyable to play each expansion is getting old.

[kaminaris]

Azerite traits replaced --- de-facto --- tier sets + artifacts + legendaries. You are talking about 2p+4p like everyone had it, but the most interesting period was always when you didn't have it or at least didn't have full BIS. You were juggling pieces to do 2p and sometimes it was better not to go for it even if you had it. Same for 4p. That was choice. And with legendaries the amount of choice was so much bigger than now, it is stupid to even compare. And I am going to ignore different relics with crucible, because I don't even need them to make my point handily.

Nope they did not replace legendaries, legendaries were scrapped completely because of gigantic shitstorm. Neck replaced artifact, some artifact traits were put in class passives and talents. Thats it. Azerite gear WAS NOT suppose to replace all that crap.

And no there was no choice, in any decent guild all people had 4sets in 2-4 weeks.
And no there was no choice with legendaries. All classes had 2-3 BIS ones. Check warcraft logs for legendaries on top players, you will have a dejavu.

It was simple, you had bis = you rocked dps meters, you didnt? = you sucked. Thats about it.

[Neuroticaine]

I much prefered mop demo instead of Zoo Manager light sorry, turning into a demo was awesome and a lot of that has been lost on DH's meta being a CD.

There is very little actual managing of your pets in Demo. Jesus. You want to make sure you have as many pets up as possible when you hit your Cooldown, but outside of that, it's just pop everything on cooldown. Getting rid of Empowerment was a huge step in the right direction.

BfA Demo is second only to Legion Shadow at 40%+ haste, and everything else is a distance third at best.

[Onikaroshi]

There is very little actual managing of your pets in Demo. Jesus. You want to make sure you have as many pets up as possible when you hit your Cooldown, but outside of that, it's just pop everything on cooldown. Getting rid of Empowerment was a huge step in the right direction.

BfA Demo is second only to Legion Shadow at 40%+ haste, and everything else is a distance third at best.

I get it, you love BfA demo, i think it's a HUGE step down from mop demo, but to each their own.

[Neuroticaine]

I get it, you love BfA demo, i think it's a HUGE step down from mop demo, but to each their own.

I loved Legion Demo too if it weren't for Demonic Empowerment and Demonwrath, which made the spec awkward as hell. Before that, Demo was fairly generic with its Metamorphosis mechanic, which just made everything instant but largely the same. I honestly don't understand why so many people have a hardon for it. Demo tanking was kinda sorta cool, but a gimmick, and nothing more. If it were more heavily supported as a legitimate tank spec, I may have been more on board with it. Outside of Demo, it was just this weird bastard spec between destro and affliction that didn't excel at much except for mass AoE, which has, for the most part, been fairly rare in relevant content. I've always wanted to love Demo over Destro and Affliction, but I never actually did until Legion.

[Alkizon]

until they actually design the core aspect of the game (the SPECS) to have engaging, complex

Amendment: "the SPECS" shouldn't even exists, classes' design is the core

[Soon-TM]

All they said it that you have to collect the Essences. They didn't say anywhere that they will be 100% drops or gains from things.

The new Blizzard loves RNG. Safe to assume this system will have it too since they tend to learn nothing from other failed systems like Legendaries.

These essences look like they will be mini-legiondaries all over again, but watered down - there are only a handful of class-specific ones, most are generic tank/heal/dps cooldowns. And for what I saw on wowhead, some are grossly OP while others are just meh. Yeah, sure, it's just PTR and what not, but...

[Wild]

Love playing my resto dru, nothing wrong with that class design.
Maybe play a different class, mabye take a break?

[Kazlofski]

Completely agree with OP.

Nothing is fun when the rotation and spec feel bland and unimpactful.
Too bad the devs are really stubborn and refuse to do any fixes until a new expansion hits. Ruining any potential for this expansion to be fixed and made better.

[Eleccybubb]

These essences look like they will be mini-legiondaries all over again, but watered down - there are only a handful of class-specific ones, most are generic tank/heal/dps cooldowns. And for what I saw on wowhead, some are grossly OP while others are just meh. Yeah, sure, it's just PTR and what not, but...

It's basically just glyphs 2.0 and there will probably be some reliance of RNG involved. Either in 8.2 or in the future.

[CiccioBello]

BfA has definitely a more solid class design.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.
Thank you for cheering up my day; I needed a good laugh.

[Alkizon]

I don't agree, and what we have right now are specs, not 'classes,' so my comment stands. Don't 'amend' others' statements.

I didn't ask if you agree, I just said as it is

There are effectively 36 distinct classes.

Finally! It was officially recognized (exactly this wording)

but to calm yourself you can call them whatever you want. But my message wasn't about this at all, rather about fact that it was orientation towards "specs" and their "fantasy" that precisely became one of key directions in destruction of class mechanics, while the lasts ones' fantasy should be the core. Is it more understandable now? It was their main objective reason for pruning, you (well, not specifically you, although it possible could be you, I just can't know, but in general) and your whining actually untied their hands.

Do you want to hear about other major flaws? Role priority over fantasy in principle and arena/E-sport/challenges balance direction, but that you could read in explanatory links already. Also PvP/PvE dividing of classes' mechanics, cutting classes' stuff for creation "items-carriers", but these all are already other separate burning topics.

[Mightytasty]

Love playing my resto dru, nothing wrong with that class design.
Maybe play a different class, mabye take a break?

Healers are fine. Try DPS.

[Stormbreed]

It doesn't matter how many mechagnomes or naga they throw at us, how many dungeons or zones or raids or features they throw at us, all of it is completely pointless if our characters are not fun to play. Not a single word today about class changes planned for 8.2.

If we have a look at the content patches of past expansions like MoP, they offered less raw patch content than the 8.2 patch but the content was enjoyable to repeat because the classes that we were doing the content with were fun and the content itself was fun. Slapping on a few essences and punch cards isn't going to get anywhere near repairing the foundations of these classes. As a result, I anticipate that 8.2 will be another unsuccessful patch. Blizzard has once again focused its resources in all the wrong areas.

I can only hope that Blizzard learns a valuable lesson from how unsuccessful 8.2 will be and really focuses on class design moving forward in 9.0. They need to go back to basics, strip away the Heart of Azeroth, the Azerite traits, the punch cards and all the other gimmicks and get the foundations right. That is the only way that they will win players over at this point.

Good save your money and quit. Everyone reviewing online seems to be enjoying it. I enjoy the current content 7/9 Mythic 6 hours a week.

[Malix Farwin]

You are right, complains in legion got to LEGENDARY level, a shitstorm of 11/10 magnitude about: Legendaries, Camera changes and various other things. I havent seen so much complains anywhere else as on WoW forums when Legion was a thing.
A bonus, 143 pages thread about camera: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748204616

Because Legendaries and class design are the same thing.... 1 is a piece of gear you wear and the other is the core to how your class plays. Also want to point out by this time in Legion they had mostly fixed Legendaries which is why the post you brought up was in 2016 and not in 2017.

Its 2019 and the class problems that were in 2018 still exist now.

[Velerios]

You can check it yourself:
https://github.com/kaminaris/MaxDps-...Demonology.lua
search for "azerite" and you will see how much azerite affects rotation
or if you prefer simcraft style:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...emonology.simc

You can find other classes too and browse them yourself either on my repos:
https://github.com/kaminaris?utf8=✓&q=Maxdps
Or simcraft profiles:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...rofiles/Tier23

I don't have to prove you anything since I wrote all of those modues, tested them and I know how azerite affects rotations.



Pruning peaked at legion, but again, a lot of buttons =/= fun rotation
Most of legion traits were just passives, some of them were moved to talents
Now you have those traits in azerite gear

MoP had a lot of class issues, a lot, like unused spells. Blizzard did it because they listened to feedback.

You are absolutely right that lots of buttons doesn't mean a fun rotation. Still: the CHOICE of having many buttons is better than pruning everything away, leaving every class with a fixed rotation. Having situational tools is not a bad design at all. Just make them situational. Even if they are unused or rarely used; as long as they bring something of value, it's not bad.

- - - Updated - - -

rofl, you think they removed tier because of the artwork? Not the cries every tier? "MY TIER SET SUCKS, PLEASE BUFF???1111" every tier? Short memory.

No, it's exactly because of the artwork. This makes sense because they now introduce the heritage armor. With it, you need a tier-set for every race. Second i think that maybe in the next expansion comes something similar to allied races for classes. Maybe a sub-class or something like that with only 1 spec. But for them they would need at least one iconic armor too. So yes; removal of Tier-sets was NOT because of set-imbalances; because if this was the case, they would have removed the sets already in vanilla. (there was already enough crying about the t2 and formost of the t3-sets in the forums)

If this really was the case, then they still could throw out cosmetic tier-sets for the classes.

Having 1 set for 12 classes every raid-tier was simply too much. This still does not change the issue that with the removal of tier-sets after the total destruction of specs they also destroying class identity with it. Having only neutral T-sets will not give you any real feeling to the set at all. Yes, there might be an good azshara-underwater-themed set coming; but still: does this really weight up an genuine warlock-set. A Paladin set or something like that? Warriors will have the least issue with it; since all upcoming plate-sets will not have anything unholy/holy or something like it; since every set will probably be as neutral as possible, and neutral means warrior.

But in the end: Removal of Tier-sets was bad.

[Protocoaxke]

My druid is pretty fun to play.... So is my shaman, priest and rogue.......

I agree, that class design is not top class, but it does not have to be for content to be enjoyable. If it was dogshit, i would agree with you, but it really ain't and if you think so, i believe you have completly outlandish standards.

8.2 will stand on the replayable content that it brings and not upon the changes it brings to class design. Besides, we are getting a new ability with the Heart of Azeroth change, so its not like they are ignoring the current class experience and not adding to it..... So i don't really where you are getting at.

Let me give you an analogy - which of course is each players PREFERENCE which makes this topic tricky.

You are gonna do a road trip. to where ever.

At first im gona put you in a decent Vehicle with Good MPG, Powerful engine, Cruise Control, AC, Heated and cooled seats , Sun roof, 100000 cup holders, and a fresh Tree thing for your Mirrior.

Great , Road trip is solid.

Now on your trip , im going to Lower the MPG efficiency , Change out your V8 to a 2 Cylinder , Take away Cruise Control, heated and cool seats, the Sunroof leaks water, all cup holders removed, and your AC blows Hot.....How is your road trip now.

This is how some people feel about class design ...STRIPPED away year after year, until they are left with the Frame of a Vehicle...Sure the Frame of a Ferrari is still a good Frame, but that the hell am i gonna do with just a frame .

When the structure starts to fail, no amount of Non Class based gameplay can fix the failing foundation.

Not saying this is 100% how it is, but i see alot of people who do not like the Vehicle Blizzard as left them with...especially after XX years of tuning your vehicle the way you wanted.

Dont get me wrong i know classes change and things evolve Im all for that.

Personally i LOVED the " old " combat rogue..when Outlaw came out i was like Okay cool, trying this pirate style theme or what not...but in BFA they went back a bit on design...Im now a Combat Rogue, with either Slice and Dice , or roll the bones...That to me is pore design. I dont even know what fantasy Outlaw is trying to feel. thus my vehicle SUCKS .

Just a ramble.

[Mophead]

It's basically just glyphs 2.0 and there will probably be some reliance of RNG involved. Either in 8.2 or in the future.

Its really not glyphs 2.0.

1) you have to do something to earn the essence, unlike glyphs where you just buy it with gold.

2) Essences give you actual power, the current iteration of glyphs do not give any sort of power.

3) With Essences, it has the potential the heavily alter the play-style of a given class. Glyphs only added extra damage or haste or healing to certain abilities, did not alter gameplay in the slightest.

At least give the system a chance before just mindlessly bashing it. I know you are better than that Eleccybubb

[Eleccybubb]

Its really not glyphs 2.0.

1) you have to do something to earn the essence, unlike glyphs where you just buy it with gold.

2) Essences give you actual power, the current iteration of glyphs do not give any sort of power.

3) With Essences, it has the potential the heavily alter the play-style of a given class. Glyphs only added extra damage or haste or healing to certain abilities, did not alter gameplay in the slightest.

At least give the system a chance before just mindlessly bashing it. I know you are better than that Eleccybubb

1. Uhm you made them through Inscription as well.

2. Major Glyphs back then most certainly did give power. And there is no current iteration of Glyphs.

3. Oh yippee more altering through outside sources rather than actually working on the classes themselves.

And no I won't give them a chance. I've done that with WoD and gave them the benefit of the doubt with BFA. They have proceeded to continually mess this expansion up. Therefore I don't give them that benefit anymore as they don't deserve it.

[Gurahk]

1. Uhm you made them through Inscription as well.

2. Major Glyphs back then most certainly did give power. And there is no current iteration of Glyphs.

3. Oh yipee more altering rather than actually working on the classes themselves.

And no I won't give them a chance. I've done that with WoD and gave them the benefit of the doubt with BFA. They have proceeded to continually mess this expansion up. Therefore I don't give them that benefit anymore as they don't deserve it.

Then why continue to post in WoW threads? If you've "definitely" given up on WoW, why are you wasting your time here? Don't give me the "it's just criticism" considering that you're done with Blizzard, and don't even believe in the future of the game.