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  1. #41
    I agree, roguess should have gouge. But if you just gave it back to them, they'd be even more OP, so they'd have to lose shroud or something. In the current state of the game, rogues are just head and shoulders above all over melee dps. The only time you take something other than a rogue for a melee slot is a.) niche utility or b.) whichever melee has temporary OP dps. In lieu of these reasons, all you see is rogues. To give them back gouge on top of their current supremely powerful kit would be adding insult to injury to classes like warrior, for example.

    So while I agree rogues should have gouge, I completely understand why they don't.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferg View Post
    he didn't even mention bos
    Literally the last line of the post hese quoting ....

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I understand that rogues have too much CC
    No we don't. We have less CC currently than we've ever had before. CC is the core of our class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zensunni View Post
    I agree, roguess should have gouge. But if you just gave it back to them, they'd be even more OP, so they'd have to lose shroud or something. In the current state of the game, rogues are just head and shoulders above all over melee dps. The only time you take something other than a rogue for a melee slot is a.) niche utility or b.) whichever melee has temporary OP dps. In lieu of these reasons, all you see is rogues. To give them back gouge on top of their current supremely powerful kit would be adding insult to injury to classes like warrior, for example.

    So while I agree rogues should have gouge, I completely understand why they don't.
    Go ahead and prune Shroud. It's nu-Rogue cancer. It breaks the class in M+ and holds us back in every other game mode. It's not a classic, iconic Rogue ability like Gouge. Gouge has been my "4" keybind since I dinged level 6 back in 2005. It is truly iconic. Shroud is stupid and cancerous.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    No we don't. We have less CC currently than we've ever had before. CC is the core of our class.
    I think you missed the other 70% of my post.

    I explained why I agree with what you just said.

    ...and I kind of agree that it's a problem but I think it's more of a "treating the symptom rather than the disease" problem with WoW. When most classes aren't good at anything anymore, rogue stands out as the class that's still good at something.
    I thought this made the point kind of obvious. Rogues only seem like they have an overloaded kit because they're probably the only class that hasn't been neutered to shit when it comes to other design elements.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I think you missed the other 70% of my post.

    I explained why I agree with what you just said.
    I agreed with the rest of your post, which was why no further comment on it was necessary. It was an otherwise good post except for the part where you claimed we have too much CC already. That is false, we have less CC in our toolkit than ever before in the history of this class.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    No we don't. We have less CC currently than we've ever had before. CC is the core of our class.



    Go ahead and prune Shroud. It's nu-Rogue cancer. It breaks the class in M+ and holds us back in every other game mode. It's not a classic, iconic Rogue ability like Gouge. Gouge has been my "4" keybind since I dinged level 6 back in 2005. It is truly iconic. Shroud is stupid and cancerous.
    A lot of pve rogues like shroud and think it is iconic. The game is not just about you.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-05-15 at 05:27 AM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Most rogues like shroud and think it is iconic. The game is not just about you.
    We've had Shroud since TBC and it's an incredibly powerful part of our utility. I'd say it's pretty iconic.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    We've had Shroud since TBC and it's an incredibly powerful part of our utility. I'd say it's pretty iconic.
    I agree. So for a pvp player to say that Blizzard can just remove Shroud is pretty selfish. If you’re playing an MMO you should be considerate of other people.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-05-15 at 06:35 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    We've had Shroud since TBC and it's an incredibly powerful part of our utility. I'd say it's pretty iconic.
    That's a bit of a reach. We've had shroud in its current iteration only since MoP.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    We've had Shroud since TBC
    Um... What?

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    and it's an incredibly powerful part of our utility.
    In very specific circumstances and only just for M+. You can even replace it for the most part with Invis pots. Also you can't even use it in PvP anymore.

    Honestly, I'd prefer they remove it over nerfing other utility like Blind and Gouge, or give it to other classes/specs. It's not nearly as powerful as you think it is, outside of high-end M+ and they even said they want us fighting more trash anyway (which is absurd, but they're the devs so whatever). This fixes two things: Nerfing Rogue utility and making us fight more trash.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I meant Cloak, lol. Not Shroud. Woosp.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodravel View Post
    That's a bit of a reach. We've had shroud in its current iteration only since MoP.
    Read above.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    A lot of pve rogues like shroud and think it is iconic. The game is not just about you.
    An ability that was added in MoP is not iconic.

    The only reason shroud was unpruned is because PvP Rogues raised hell. Blizzard said "we hear you, we're looking to add something back to the class to make it more interesting outside the dps rotation." This is what we got? It's an insult, it demonstrates that they completely failed to understand the problem we were asking them to solve.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    An ability that was added in MoP is not iconic.
    yeah, freck those young 'uns and their stupid new fangled shtuff. Like electricity and tapwater.

    It's always amazing to see you bounce between smart person and bigoted, narrow minded whackjob in just a few posts.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  14. #54
    Man, Gouge was my bread and butter in TBC arena. So many re-stealths from that single move alone. Who needed Vanish when you could just do a 180 sprinting gouge.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    yeah, freck those young 'uns and their stupid new fangled shtuff. Like electricity and tapwater.

    It's always amazing to see you bounce between smart person and bigoted, narrow minded whackjob in just a few posts.
    It can be a fun ability. It can be an useful ability. It can be a well designed ability (I do not believe it is however). These words have distinct meaning from iconic. Shroud is not iconic.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2019-05-17 at 02:44 PM.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    It feels ridiculous to lose a button that has been my "4" keybind since I dinged level 6 on my first WoW character in early 2005, yet my character "forgot" this button. For PvP Rogues Gouge was without a doubt one of the absolute most interesting, iconic, and fun abilities about being a Rogue.

    I miss everything about it. I miss the animation and sound. I miss that keybind and feel like I have a "phantom limb" where it used to reside.

    And the PvP movement feels utterly terrible when I'm not even keeping awareness of the facing requirement in that way, such as running through someone and jumping while turning backwards and Gouging.

    Without this button, Subtlety and Assassination honestly don't even feel like playing a Rogue to me. I realize the perspective of PvE players is likely different because Gouge wasn't nearly as useful and fundamental in that environment when you're just thinking about a damage rotation. But man it's been years since Legion and I am still frustrated about the way our class has been handled.
    I'll give you gouge back if we can take away shroud.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    I'll give you gouge back if we can take away shroud.
    Why respond to the first post only without reading the thread? Shroud is obviously cancer, just look at Rogue representation in M+. What's worse, do you know the reason Shroud was added? Because PvP Rogues complained about the boring, one dimensional, pruned state of the class.

    Blizzard: "We hear you that playing a Rogue isn't very fun anymore in PvP and it needs something more to do outside of the dps rotation. We're planning to unprune another ability in 7.1"

    Also Blizzard: "Here's an ability that you can't even use in PvP."

    What an absolute joke.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2019-05-17 at 02:47 PM.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    It can be a fun ability. It can be an useful ability. It can be a well designed ability (I do not believe it is however). These words have distinct meaning from iconic. Shroud is not iconic.
    So what constitues iconic, and why? Apart from your valuable opinion.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman
    winning
    "A stick is a love letter that hasn't been made into paper yet."
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    An ability that was added in MoP is not iconic.
    That is not for you to decide. It is subjective to the eye of the beholder. Maybe you don't find Shroud iconic, but I do as well as many others.

    A lot of people like Shroud, and for you to neglect that is just ignorant and selfish.

    I don't do pvp so if Blizzard completely destroyed rogues for pvp and used all their resources on pve, it would benefit me. But I would never ask for something like that, because I'm not a small minded person and I care about the wellbeing of other people.

    I find your comments extremely toxic.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-05-17 at 03:08 PM.

  20. #60
    he meant cloak (CoS) not shroud, people

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