Rise of Azshara PTR - Initial Class Changes

[Mardux]

And where are the warlock changes OMFG? And they buff rogues and demon hunters again? WTF?0.

Vengeance was pretty trash (compared to most other tanks) in m+ at key levels that matter. They have been for a while. They didn't buff demon hunters, they buffed vengeance spec (havoc is unchanged as of yet).

And if you read the notes, it was a straight up nerf (and a pretty big one) to outlaw rogues in aoe situations, and an almost unnoticeable buff to their st and 2t cleave. Overall, outlaw got nerfed in m+, which is what these changes were aimed at.

But i suppose if your warlock isn't brokenly overpowered anymore, it needs to be buffed before any other changes are made.

[Leih]

LOL? nothing else? Prot warrior has no weaknesses in M+.

Unblockable magic damage and bleeds? No ranged interrupt/silence capability? Basically no self-healing ability? No hard CC to offer, no silences, no healing for your group, no group-based utility, no knockbacks or grips, etc

Prot has great physical mitigation and the high DPS, but other tanks do most everything else in m+ better. Nerfing prot damage just means we go back to how it was before, with everyone taking the DKs I guess.

There's a reason people didn't take Prot to high level m+ (and Challenge Modes before that). Prot dominating M+ is a recent thing after people realised how much damage they do... not because they're so amazing for m+ performance in any other tangible way.

[Beefkow]

I don't think the point is to make us take the other talents, but more to ensure that Thunder Clap alone doesn't do more damage than every single tank in the game is capable of outputting with their entire toolkit. As a Warrior main, there's no reason our tank spec should be competing with most DPS specs on damage in M+.

As for the other changes, Rogues will still be M+ kings even if they outright removed that trait, and Vengeance might need even more than the current buffs, the spec just isn't great at all.

I know, i'm just saying that if the talent were to be nerfed to say.... 10% increased dmg while avatar is up, we will still take it.

Assuming if anger management is still the go-to talent.

[Temis]

Nice is see Blizzard is balancing the game around the top 0.01% of the player base...

[Ange]

Nice is see Blizzard is balancing the game around the top 0.01% of the player base...

There is no balance needed if all you do is petbattles and LFR, why are you upset?

[SinR]

Blizzard at it again with the Nerf Dart Board I see...

"Let's nerf..."
*throws dart*
"WARRIORS!"
*throws another dart*
"Unstoppable Force Nerf!"

[Deathrange]

Unblockable magic damage and bleeds? No ranged interrupt/silence capability? Basically no self-healing ability? No hard CC to offer, no silences, no healing for your group, no group-based utility, no knockbacks or grips, etc

Prot has great physical mitigation and the high DPS, but other tanks do most everything else in m+ better. Nerfing prot damage just means we go back to how it was before, with everyone taking the DKs I guess.

There's a reason people didn't take Prot to high level m+ (and Challenge Modes before that). Prot dominating M+ is a recent thing after people realised how much damage they do... not because they're so amazing for m+ performance in any other tangible way.

Lol what? They can easily interrupt range due to charge, single and aoe frontal stun, aoe fear, Ignore Pain is amazing absorb because why heal if you can just not take the damage. Magic Reduction and reflection with Spell Reflection, group attack power buff, Rally cry which gives 15% max hp increase, Immunity to fear, sap, and incapacitate effects, fantastic mobility, I can go on and on. You obviously dont know anything about warrior tanking. Any top M+ tank will tell that dmg wasn't the only thing but more on the dmg reduction they have vs other tanks.

The reason prot warriors were bad back in the day way because Ignore Pain was trash and our survivability wasnt good. Then they buffed both.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Blizzard at it again with the Nerf Dart Board I see...

"Let's nerf..."
*throws dart*
"WARRIORS!"
*throws another dart*
"Unstoppable Force Nerf!"

The goddamn post specifically says that they think warriors deal too much burst damage with that talent for a tank. How the fuck is that random.

[Leih]

Lol what? They can easily interrupt range due to charge, single and aoe frontal stun, aoe fear, Ignore Pain is amazing absorb because why heal if you can just not take the damage. Magic Reduction and reflection with Spell Reflection, group attack power buff, Rally cry which gives 15% max hp increase, Immunity to fear, sap, and incapacitate effects, fantastic mobility, I can go on and on. You obviously dont know anything about warrior tanking. Any top M+ tank will tell that dmg wasn't the only thing but more on the dmg reduction they have vs other tanks.

The reason prot warriors were bad back in the day way because Ignore Pain was trash and our survivability wasnt good. Then they buffed both.

You must not have been playing long, or you have selective memory.

[ShaanuJaanu]

Unblockable magic damage and bleeds? No ranged interrupt/silence capability? Basically no self-healing ability? No hard CC to offer, no silences, no healing for your group, no group-based utility, no knockbacks or grips, etc

Prot has great physical mitigation and the high DPS, but other tanks do most everything else in m+ better. Nerfing prot damage just means we go back to how it was before, with everyone taking the DKs I guess.

There's a reason people didn't take Prot to high level m+ (and Challenge Modes before that). Prot dominating M+ is a recent thing after people realised how much damage they do... not because they're so amazing for m+ performance in any other tangible way.

Every tank has bleed isssues, no tanks are great at magic mitigation. Half the tanks don't have ranged interrupts, no self healing is trade off for THE BEST physical mitigation, has AOE fear, has spell reflect which is huge, has intercept..etc etc..90% of dungeons are all about physical mitigation so, half your points are fluff anyway. Get on with the game, prot needed a nerf, in fact it needs a physical mitigation nerf on top of dmg nerf to be frank.

[Leih]

Every tank has bleed isssues, no tanks are great at magic mitigation. Half the tanks don't have ranged interrupts, no self healing is trade off for THE BEST physical mitigation, has AOE fear, has spell reflect which is huge, has intercept..etc etc..90% of dungeons are all about physical mitigation so, half your points are fluff anyway. Get on with the game, prot needed a nerf, in fact it needs a physical mitigation nerf on top of dmg nerf to be frank.

Feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I come to this website

It wasn't that long ago we saw the entire M+ scene dominated by a particular tank class because they brought so much to the table, and everyone whined about them. I promise you in a couple of months we'll be back in that position again because nothing has changed on that front.

All I'm saying is if they're going to nerf the damage (which is needed) they should bring tank utility for these dungeons more in line... because unless your memory only extends back a few months, it was not long ago that everyone was crying prot warriors were useless on that front. And I get in response a bunch of crazy people telling me Prot Warriors are still going to be the best dungeon tank because they "have no weaknesses" and "need even more nerfs"

Crazy pills

There is literally no way we'll be seeing Prot Warriors dominating the meta after the DPS gets gutted.

[Jastall]

I know, i'm just saying that if the talent were to be nerfed to say.... 10% increased dmg while avatar is up, we will still take it.

Assuming if anger management is still the go-to talent.

Oh sure, Prot's talent tree is way too limited, unlike say Fury's which has a reasonable amount of options. Fortunately the optimal setup is also the most fun to play for now.

[ShaanuJaanu]

Feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I come to this website

It wasn't that long ago we saw the entire M+ scene dominated by a particular tank class because they brought so much to the table, and everyone whined about them. I promise you in a couple of months we'll be back in that position again because nothing has changed on that front.

All I'm saying is if they're going to nerf the damage (which is needed) they should bring tank utility for these dungeons more in line... because unless your memory only extends back a few months, it was not long ago that everyone was crying prot warriors were useless on that front. And I get in response a bunch of crazy people telling me Prot Warriors are still going to be the best dungeon tank because they "have no weaknesses" and "need even more nerfs"

Crazy pills

There is literally no way we'll be seeing Prot Warriors dominating the meta after the DPS gets gutted.

Ya because when your argument is flawed, you resort to "OH MY GOD A DIFFERENT TANK WAS DOMINATING META LAST YEAR SO WE MUST DOMINATE IT NOW", thats not how balance works. Just because another class was OP last time, does not mean warriors are NOT OP this time. Yes you are taking crazy pills.

[Ealyssa]

Feel like I'm taking crazy pills

You should just stop then.

Because your verbal diarrhea about prot warrior not being currenty stupidly OP just sounds retarded.

[klaps_05]

this is the INITIAL class changes. im sure there will be plenty more, AND probably for all classes some way or another.

Blizzard is known for half-assing everything so I wouldnt be surprised if these were all the changes and then "just wait for essences and it will be ok". I dont mind, I play fotm class anyway so its fine, but im pretty sure a lot of people arent really enjoying their classes and blizzards policy of barely making changes once every 3 months doesnt help.

[Leih]

Ya because when your argument is flawed, you resort to "OH MY GOD A DIFFERENT TANK WAS DOMINATING META LAST YEAR SO WE MUST DOMINATE IT NOW", thats not how balance works. Just because another class was OP last time, does not mean warriors are NOT OP this time. Yes you are taking crazy pills.

I'm not trying to argue anything of the sort. Perhaps you've misunderstood the entire posts. This is what I mean by it feels like Crazy pills. Because I post something and I get a response like this which is absolutely not related to what I said at all. I didn't say shit about prot warrior not being OP right now.

I don't think Prot Warrior should dominate any shit. I don't think that it's okay for anyone to dominate anything. I don't think that the DPS of prot warrior was fine. I think it needed nerfed, I totally agreed like 4 times that the nerf was expected.

My point was that other classes dominated before because of what they offer. Prot Warrior took the lead due, largely, to the insanely ridiculous amount of DPS offered. That had to be fixed. It's GOOD that it was fixed. No tank should do that much damage. (Frankly I think tanks should do almost no damage because having to balance tank DPS has been a fuckfest since the beginning, but whatever, that's a different argument.)

However, now that the damage is getting nerfed, we just simply flip back to the way things were before. I don't think that's okay either. Unlike half the people in this topic, I played Prot Warrior when people considered us garbo before we were M+ fotm and I don't believe enough has changed in that department. No, I don't think "charging and using pummel on mobs" is remotely comparable to all of the mob control granted by Death Grips, ranged silences, knockbacks etc you can gain by taking other classes... and neither did anyone else a few months ago before you all got hypnotised by FOTM jerkoff circles and seemingly forgot everything people were complaining about some months ago, and will no doubt start complaining about again once the "GRR I HATE PROT WARRIORS AND THEIR OP DPS" rage subsides.

Lets sum up:
Removing the OP DPS from Prot Warrior = Good. Not compensating that by adjusting the tank utility balance for 5-mans = Bad. Is that succinct enough?

Not even asking for much. Just restoring some shit they pruned like gag order on heroic throws (with an internal cooldown), or taunt banner or something would be a huge change...

Because your verbal diarrhea about prot warrior not being currenty stupidly OP just sounds retarded.

This is at no point what I said. Prot warrior damage was definitely OP. Standard "I didn't read what you said but I've got my own agenda I'm trying to push hard so I'm just going to pretend what you said is whatever I want"

Calm down a little instead of just resorting to nothing but pure flaming, yeah?

[Nevcairiel]

Unfortunately, for the sake of fairness, they can't make too many changes mid tournament, so this is the best we get.

8.2 will break all of that anyway by changing the heart of azeroth.
They'll not restrict what they change in the live game because of MDI.

AFAIK, MDI plays on entirely seperate realms, with Season 1 affixes as well, so I might imagine that its also a seperate client release that stays constant throughout the entire tournament.

[huldu]

Tanks really aren't suppose to be doing ridiculous amount of damage, period. They're tanks not dps. You should be happy people like myself aren't balancing the game because you'd see quite a few changes to certain things.

[Peacemoon]

Good to see some Guardian buffs, was definitely needed. Would still like to see frenzied regeneration off the GCD.

[ShaanuJaanu]

I'm not trying to argue anything of the sort. Perhaps you've misunderstood the entire posts. This is what I mean by it feels like Crazy pills. Because I post something and I get a response like this which is absolutely not related to what I said at all. I didn't say shit about prot warrior not being OP right now.

I don't think Prot Warrior should dominate any shit. I don't think that it's okay for anyone to dominate anything. I don't think that the DPS of prot warrior was fine. I think it needed nerfed, I totally agreed like 4 times that the nerf was expected.

My point was that other classes dominated before because of what they offer. Prot Warrior took the lead due, largely, to the insanely ridiculous amount of DPS offered. That had to be fixed. It's GOOD that it was fixed. No tank should do that much damage. (Frankly I think tanks should do almost no damage because having to balance tank DPS has been a fuckfest since the beginning, but whatever, that's a different argument.)

However, now that the damage is getting nerfed, we just simply flip back to the way things were before. I don't think that's okay either. Unlike half the people in this topic, I played Prot Warrior when people considered us garbo before we were M+ fotm and I don't believe enough has changed in that department. No, I don't think "charging and using pummel on mobs" is remotely comparable to all of the mob control granted by Death Grips, ranged silences, knockbacks etc you can gain by taking other classes... and neither did anyone else a few months ago before you all got hypnotised by FOTM jerkoff circles and seemingly forgot everything people were complaining about some months ago, and will no doubt start complaining about again once the "GRR I HATE PROT WARRIORS AND THEIR OP DPS" rage subsides.

Lets sum up:
Removing the OP DPS from Prot Warrior = Good. Not compensating that by adjusting the tank utility balance for 5-mans = Bad. Is that succinct enough?

Not even asking for much. Just restoring some shit they pruned like gag order on heroic throws (with an internal cooldown), or taunt banner or something would be a huge change...



This is at no point what I said. Prot warrior damage was definitely OP. Standard "I didn't read what you said but I've got my own agenda I'm trying to push hard so I'm just going to pretend what you said is whatever I want"

Calm down a little instead of just resorting to nothing but pure flaming, yeah?

Yes that is a good point, about things going back to how they were (different class dominating the scene). I think certain unique abilities must be changed, mass grips, shrouds, and battle resses to certain extend are all problematic as long as they are unique/somewhat rare.