Rise of Azshara PTR - Initial Class Changes

[Leih]

Yes that is a good point, about things going back to how they were (different class dominating the scene). I think certain unique abilities must be changed, mass grips, shrouds, and battle resses to certain extend are all problematic as long as they are unique/somewhat rare.

Exactly! Although, I think unique abilities/rare abilities like death grip are okay, in that without unique stuff we end up in a homogenisation situation where no classes bring anything cool over other classes, and I know people don't want that.

But there should be more of a trade off when it comes to unique utility, especially among tanks and healers because you only get one of them in the group. One tank shouldn't be the go-to for every dungeon, either because they bring 50% more DPS than other tanks or because they blow the others out of the water on utility/control.

DPS it's less of a big deal because there's room to fit 1 utility guy and 1 high DPS guy in your set of 3... although I do think MAJOR abilities like mass grip and shroud should get a similar system for 5-mans as CRs or Bloodlust got... some kind of global group cooldown so there's no incentive to stack multiple classes for it. Not sure how people would feel about that.

[Gnamzy]

And where are the warlock changes OMFG? And they buff rogues and demon hunters again? WTF?0.

The rogue change is a nerf

[Cazmosis]

All these tanks that wanna dps these days....

Deeeeerp

[Magnosh]

Initial
Unfortunately, for the sake of fairness, they can't make too many changes mid tournament, so this is the best we get.

What do you mean with this? This changes are coming in like 2-4 months with 8.2...

Tbh I'm not sure how I feel about prot warrior nerf to AoE damage, like with Reaping gone which is when this changes come into place the difference in damage from Warriors to Prot Paladins isn't that huge anymore but on the other hand other tanks bring more ''utility'' kind of spells to the group. So, I honestly think with a new season Prot warriors will simply die off - especially if they actually bring a more single target seasonal affix.

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All these tanks that wanna dps these days....

Deeeeerp

It was like this since Vengeance in MoP I mean tanks have no other way to compete.

[Jastall]

Blizzard at it again with the Nerf Dart Board I see...

"Let's nerf..."
*throws dart*
"WARRIORS!"
*throws another dart*
"Unstoppable Force Nerf!"

As a Warrior, anyone who thought Prot's damage was fine and no nerf was coming is delusional.

[Christhammer]

AoE nerf to Prot War and Outlaw. Very nice. It was definitely needed.

[Quaade]

LOL? nothing else? Prot warrior has no weaknesses in M+.

I see you only see Warriors from the outside without their bad points.

No self-healing.

Only Blood DKs have less mobility.

Breaks if they have no Rage to use Shield Block or IP.

As a Prot, I have to do a lot more work for tanking than I have to do on my Monk, DK or DH.

So yeah, lower their damage in which case they'll have the lowest self-healing, second lowest mobility, and some of the worst baseline survivability of all the tank specs in the game, aka. useless unless there are no other tanks in the LFG.

Blizzard has said that the niche of the Prot Warrior is to be the DPS tank, now that's being lowered. Tell me what left when the niche has been filled out with bricks?

[Daan]

Why to wait until 8.2 for these changes? Put it in immediate and make us happy next weekly reset when Crucible of Storms starts, Blizz.

[Unholyground]

Good to see some Guardian buffs, was definitely needed. Would still like to see frenzied regeneration off the GCD.

I know, I feel this pain but the rest is better than nerfs lol.

[TrickNasty]

I just wish they would bring back gladiator stance so I can DPS with my bulwark of azzinoth mog. ������

[Charo]

I see you only see Warriors from the outside without their bad points.

No self-healing.

Only Blood DKs have less mobility.

Breaks if they have no Rage to use Shield Block or IP.

As a Prot, I have to do a lot more work for tanking than I have to do on my Monk, DK or DH.

So yeah, lower their damage in which case they'll have the lowest self-healing, second lowest mobility, and some of the worst baseline survivability of all the tank specs in the game, aka. useless unless there are no other tanks in the LFG.

Blizzard has said that the niche of the Prot Warrior is to be the DPS tank, now that's being lowered. Tell me what left when the niche has been filled out with bricks?

Guy did you realy just claim Prot Warriors lack mobility?? You do know of Heroic Leap and Charge, right? You do know you can use Charge on friendly targets as well, right? Healing is low, but survivability is not.

[mrfiji]

I wonder why resto druids were no subject to immediate change
I find the healer situation atleast equally bad as the tanking one.

[Sylvaeres]

Where the F are the Mage buffs? A 3 dps spec class and all of them are mostly in the bottom tier right now

Frost Mage says hello

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Yes, lower their damage, give them nothing else and remove the only thing that sets them apart from other tanks.

Please make the inferior versions of every other tank spec out there again. A truly brilliant move by the dev team that once again proves it has no clue how the game work.

As Ion said before Necrotic was changed to physical damage: "Take Necrotic, for example, its presence makes a Prot Warrior better and a Blood DK worse." Yes, that was truly stupid and completely out of touch and removed from how the game actually worked.

How many times can one person be wrong in a single post? Because this guy is going for the record.

[Quaade]

Frost Mage says hello

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How many times can one person be wrong in a single post? Because this guy is going for the record.

If you think I'm wrong then explain what you think is wrong instead of pulling this vague, condescending crap. Do you have the mental maturity of a middle schooler? Because things like these were only popular in middle school.

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Guy did you realy just claim Prot Warriors lack mobility?? You do know of Heroic Leap and Charge, right? You do know you can use Charge on friendly targets as well, right? Healing is low, but survivability is not.

It's called Intervene and Intervene requires a target and HL is on a 45 sec CD and only has one Charge and can never be improved, less if talented, there are better talents on that row, Roll and Demonic Leap (Charge)? has 2 and no target requirement.

Needing a target is bad because if the target is in the wrong location you end up in the wrong location as well. That leaves HL. The only thing that comes close in functionality is the horse of paladins, full disclosure, last I played a paladin was in Legion and back then Prot Paladins could get two charges on it.

That leaves Bears, which iirc have access to both a root and a permanent speed increase, again the last time I played one was in Legion.

And as for survivability, you miss the part where I said or willfully ignore it in order to misrepresent my argument, BASELINE survivability. If a Prot Warrior has too little Rage they splat faster than any other tank class. The only spec one that comes close is the Prot Paladin spec. And both of those are down to utter design failures in those specs rather than player ability.

It's irresponsible to make specs that depend on something and then have situations where those things are missing.

Stagger is baseline survivability.

DK has the Runic Power/Runes thing, which is something the player has control over themselves so that only fizzle out due to the player.

DH can make Fragments and self-heal when they are out of CDs.

Bears have a large Health Pool, armor and Dodge innately since they tank with their face.

Prot Paladins are shit out of luck as well, however, they at least have control over their resource.

Warriors are utterly dependant on procs, there's nothing we can do skill-wise to increase out survivability unless we Shield Wall, Demo Shout or Last Stand, catch them with those on CD and they only have Shield Block and no Rage, which we only get from Shield Slam and there's no SB. This is the reason Prot Warriors stack as much Haste as they can.

This has nothing to do with making them better, they have to do it in order to make them work. For Grievous weeks I use Impending Victory instead of Into the Fray and I can really feel the difference in my Rage build due to the lacking Haste.

So if Warriors are no longer the tank that does the most damage of the tanks, AoE and single target, and nothing else changes then they're reduced to Worst Tank, which was a position they occupied until 8.1 where they were worth bringing again. No one, least of all the devs, wants to return to a situation where there's effectively -1 tank spec.

This decision reeks of Blizzard making a panic change after the invitation and only looked at the effect instead of the cause and now they're lessening the effect without ever studying the cause.