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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    More the point being that the location is somehow known as in relative position.

    That is a bit more specific than watching enemy troop movements proceed to a spot in the ocean.

    While yes, old maps or knowledge of pre-sundering might lead some info to being known... that kind of goes sideways considering how some locations have sunk, resurfaced, or been outright obliterated.

    Another thing is that when I said the 'horde' I more so meant Sylvanas as I'm assuming she's being told to go there by the Knaifu Waifu. And again, the spot on the map is more what's important than knowing what that location is.
    We aren't told if there's a spot on the map, or a destination. That's what I'm trying to say. All the Horde is told is that there's a plan.

    For all we know at this moment, we planned to sail to the Broken Isles, or Silithus, or the Maelstrom. We don't know what the destination was. Maybe it was the ocean, maybe it wasn't - That is unclear. The only thing suggesting she was involved is Lady Ashvane, which maybe she's right, maybe she isn't.

    It doesn't matter whatsoever though. Because after the attack (thus, regardless of whether someone planned the attack or not, as it's not part of the plan of attack), we successfully fight off our attackers. We aren't left stranded, and are able to report back what happened. Therefore: We report to the major heads that Azshara is active. And Tyrande would leave, post-haste, once she heard that information. "How would Tyrande know" is already covered regardless of if we knew where we were going or not.

    For all we know, the Horde ships were meant to be part of the sacrifice Ashvane talks about. It's highly suggested by her dialogue.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2019-04-18 at 02:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    We aren't told if there's a spot on the map, or a destination. That's what I'm trying to say. All the Horde is told is that there's a plan.

    If the SI:7 are informing the alliance of horde movements of Horde forces in zuldazar as the plot hook then it would suggest that someone on the horde DOES have a location.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Man, what is it with Blood Elf and elf fanboys in general making these poorly thought out, even more poorly worded threads about elves?

    Elf fans are like the crossfit vaping vegans of the fantasy world.
    The OP has a point.

    Imagine reading wow material like Wc3 stuff and the War of Ancients, then coming to Legion expansion and the fight for Azshara and Malfurion and Tyrande are absent, it’s ridiculous, doesn’t make sense, and has no explanation except the story director despises then and would rather anyone to the extent he is destorying the consistency of the story.

    Someone would ask why is Jaina all over the place or Khadgar, and why aren’t the people who are related to places like Suramar, Azsuna, greatest enemies of the Legion and the ones who have a bone to pick not there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    We do not know yet if these characters will stay there after we build up the camp. They already said that other heroes will come by...

    Personally I would like Tyrande to stay in Kalimdor and fight the horde... that makes storywise more sense to me.
    You forget Azshara is the reason KAlimdor and the night elves weee destroyed, the reason the Legion found, came and walked over Azeroth nearly destorying it.

    Is the reason her night elves had to carry an eternal vigil instead of live lives with their families Anastasia develop.

    The destruction the alefion has caused lies at her feet, not to mention they are the reason she lost everything. If Tyrande hadn’t helped Darth’remar and the others, if Malfurion hadn’t won that day her power dreams would have been long fulfilled.

    To say they don’t even figure I’d rather incredulous.

    Not to mention Tyrande is more concerned with darkshore than a global threat that could unleash an old god and a real tide of darkness thatnpossibly only the Light of Elune can stop, and sh’d rather be fighting a few hordensoldiers in a land that has no night elves left in it to defend. Just pure revenge over far more pressing matters?

    If that isn’t infredibly idiotic and short sighted certainly for a High Priestess.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    If the SI:7 are informing the alliance of horde movements of Horde forces in zuldazar as the plot hook then it would suggest that someone on the horde DOES have a location.
    "Someone on the Horde has a location to go to" =/= "The Horde planned this"

    Someone on the Horde planned this, presuming it was planned at all. We have no idea what the plan was, so for all we know it wasn't planned that Azshara would attack. I mean hell, the location the person was given could even have been a red herring, just to lead the ships into the right spot in the water - We don't know.

    But, again, as I've pointed out multiple times:
    Since we ESCAPE from our attackers, it would not matter if someone planned the attack or not. We're able to just leave and go tell whomever we please about the events which transpired, and that word would make it over to Tyrande. Regardless of if the Horde had an intended destination, or planned to be attacked in open waters above Nazjatar, one way or another, we escape and tell everyone what has happened. Then we marshal forces to invade.

    That means Tyrande knows it happened, and wouldn't hesitate to go there. If she doesn't, we miss out on probably the only worthwhile interaction of this entire expansion - Tyrande/Malfurion vs. Azshara.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    "Someone on the Horde has a location to go to" =/= "The Horde planned this"
    I didn't say the horde planned it.

    edit:

    just to clarify. IF SI:7 is acting on observations that a horde fleet is moving that seems to show the alliance is reacting to horde actions and this mass movement would be part of some plan...

    That might not be "horde planned to go to Naz'jatar" exactly. It would however indicate that some plan is being followed. Like for Vashj'ir, we didn't know anything beyond a new island had been spotted post cataclysm... show up BOOM giant squid and naga everywhere and no backup till we're like 2 zones over.

    My original interpretation of the quoted material was taking it as saying "horde planned to head to Naz'jatar"
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2019-04-19 at 12:23 AM.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    I wouldnt mind not seeing any elves.
    Wrong place for it. Be very stupid to go to the birth place of the elves, and the heart of their greatest cviilization, and not have any elves involved.

    But then blizzard has none of the characters in the original story that fought Azshara actually involved against her now.

    Like they forgot about their lore. IEven newer characters like Farondis who has a direct beef against her as recently as Legion, is ignored, yet Jaina, Genn, Shandris and Lor'themar have so much more to do with it than Tyrandde, Malfurion, Prince Farondis..and the rest oof the kaldorei?

    it's like doing Arhtas without humans, or Garrosh without orcs

  7. #127
    I am not even surprised by this. This whole expansion is more or less Jaina's diary.
    "Thrall also embodies non-toxic masculinity and he founded the Azeroth Horde!"- Christie Golden
    https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...86529281839104

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Man, what is it with Blood Elf and elf fanboys in general making these poorly thought out, even more poorly worded threads about elves?

    Elf fans are like the crossfit vaping vegans of the fantasy world.
    As much as I dislike the Blood Elf Defence Force and like Jaina, it's a fair point this time. Tyrande and Malfurion - for all people dislike them - being left out against Azshara? It's like the Lich King all over again, where everybody with a long-standing, game-spanning grudge against Arthas gets left out of the finale until he's already dead.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigby View Post
    As much as I dislike the Blood Elf Defence Force and like Jaina, it's a fair point this time. Tyrande and Malfurion - for all people dislike them - being left out against Azshara? It's like the Lich King all over again, where everybody with a long-standing, game-spanning grudge against Arthas gets left out of the finale until he's already dead.
    Showing no regard for consistency or integrity..or displaying complete ineptitude because you forgot your own story.

    At the very least it is total disorganisation. It shows your department is not well functioning because it doesn't have structure in place to catch things like this.

    Maybe the writer of thes tory doesn't care about Tyrande and the night elves - fine, but someone in the team should go, hang on, you have to give htem parts and roles here, because this is their race, their arch nemesis and they have major involvement her. You also cannot leave out Farondis while having Thalyssra either - bothw ere new in Legion, but it was Farondis that had the Azshara plot, not Thalyssra.

    Does Jaina have to be there? No - she was the centre of 8.0 and starred int eh battle for Dazar'alor, she really has no connection with Azshara or the naga, she can be there, but others should step in.

    Failure to miss this is atrocious.

  10. #130
    The circumstances of our landing in Nazjatar make Jaina's appearance there natural, she is the Lord Admiral and it's her fleet and her ship that gave chase to the Horde there.

    On the other hand Tyrande suddenly being there would make little sense because she has her hands full with war in Darkshore and Ashenvale, her homeland, to take some leisurely ship trips half the globe away.

    Basically it would make no sense for Tyrande to somehow appear in Nazjatar, while it makes perfect natural sense for Jaina to be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Does Jaina have to be there? No - she was the centre of 8.0 and starred int eh battle for Dazar'alor, she really has no connection with Azshara or the naga, she can be there, but others should step in.

    Failure to miss this is atrocious.
    Bullshit, you talk about integrity and consistency, yet you somehow want Tyrande (currently busy fighting in her bloody homeland) or hell Farondis miraculously materialize on Alliance shit giving chase to Horde in open seas?

    You totally miss the context there - these Horde and Alliance fleets playing game of catch with each other had no clue they will even end up in Nazjatar. It was a complete surprise for Alliance whose mission was to basically intercept Horde fleet without any cue to why they were headed where they were headed let alone that they will end up in Nazjatar of all things.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    ]



    Bullshit, you talk about integrity and consistency, yet you somehow want Tyrande (currently busy fighting in her bloody homeland) or hell Farondis miraculously materialize on Alliance shit giving chase to Horde in open seas?

    You totally miss the context there - these Horde and Alliance fleets playing game of catch with each other had no clue they will even end up in Nazjatar. It was a complete surprise for Alliance whose mission was to basically intercept Horde fleet without any cue to why they were headed where they were headed let alone that they will end up in Nazjatar of all things.
    You mean Tyrande who makes one appearance in the pre quest for the battle of Darkshore, and isnt even there for the warfront, has major beef and character development with Azshara, set up as her rival with the beauty and integrity to match or even eclipse the Queen, costing her dearly in the war of the ancient.

    That Tyrande whose races first and greatest genocide was orchestrated by this Queen she has spent the last 10k years on a vigil to prevent the nightmare that woman started. You mean that Tyrande has less of a reason to be there opposuping her former Queen in her races Capital, place of arcane origin and site of first contact with her Goddess, you call bullshit on me feeling she should take the major role over Jaina, who should be injured after a loss in 8.1 raid.

    So Jaina can be there but Tyrande can't? I dont mind Jaina being there at all but this should be the night elves show as their only remaining racial adversary, the likes of Tyrande, Malfurion and Farondis are major characters intertwined with their former racial leader, we should see more of them over Jaina. Not even sure why Genn is there.

    To think Tyrande would stay fighting horde minions when that woman is about to u leash a second hell on Azeroth that could eclipse that of the legion.

    I mean Tyrande has had zero exposure in wow till her cameo in MOP, and she was a major character and racial leader you have to skip ahead another 6 years to see her play a minor role against the Legion her races nemesis enemy, be AWOL for her goddess temple liberation where it made poor sense illidan and Maiev were the ones there.. then she stars in a warfront entry after being absent for the War of Thorns, and the big villain of 8.2 she is the established opposite and is the one in lore to have been set up opposing Azshara, doesnt show up and you think that is bullshit and that doesnt smack of inconsistency or just not caring about your established lore already

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    You mean Tyrande who makes one appearance in the pre quest for the battle of Darkshore, and isnt even there for the warfront, has major beef and character development with Azshara, set up as her rival with the beauty and integrity to match or even eclipse the Queen, costing her dearly in the war of the ancient.
    Who the hell cares about some beef from 10k years ago? Night Elves are being exterminated as a race in the Ashenvale right now, you propose Night Elf leader to throw that all in the gutter and go chasing after shadows of the past or some silly epeen contest you present here?

    Really? That would be "good writing"?


    If Tyrande and Malfurion would be leisurely chilling and playing around in some secluded lake in Val'sharah, then it would make sense for them to pack up and go, but right now frikkin' Ashenvale is burning and Darkshore is not really out of the woods yet. Guess what is more important for them.

  13. #133
    Isint whole Nazjatar like sudden thing? Like ships got swallowed into the ocean? That means only random characters such as nathanos or jaina would be there, therefore its logical because nobody anticipated Azshara. However I'd like to see malfurion or tyrande joining the fight as patch goes on or lets say when they establish portal connection to outside world, because those 2 should know some stuff that could help others...

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who the hell cares about some beef from 10k years ago? Night Elves are being exterminated as a race in the Ashenvale right now, you propose Night Elf leader to throw that all in the gutter and go chasing after shadows of the past or some silly epeen contest you present here?

    Really? That would be "good writing"?


    If Tyrande and Malfurion would be leisurely chilling and playing around in some secluded lake in Val'sharah, then it would make sense for them to pack up and go, but right now frikkin' Ashenvale is burning and Darkshore is not really out of the woods yet. Guess what is more important for them.
    Beef from 10k years.. who has been invading your lands and alughtering your people all over your shore lines and coast lines, or have you forgotten all your questing experiences in darkshore, Ashevnale, Desolace and Feralas plagued with naga, in val'sharah, Azusna, and Surmar…?

    With a Queen that is inleague with the old gods and plotting a second extra dimensional invasion force to come into your world and snuff out all life remaking it in dark and crazed image... and you who know her well, who have beef with her, who stopped her before to defend your world, will sit down and fight a squabble with hordies who's recent genocide pales in comparsion to the one 10,000 years ago that wiped out 100s of millions of your people and set you on a 10,000 year long period of penance like vigil , living as spectre of what you use to, just so you could prevent that menace from returning and destroying your world. Framing your existence until the end of legion expansion.. and you think they wouldn't care?

    And seeing how they ar causing the nightmare, (drudis), cursed your people to spiri form (Farondis), aligned with the maleveont side of the void intending to shatter the balance between ligh and void( Elune) .. and you think the high priestess and arch druid or the like sof Prince Farondis would sit down and go..


    oh.. she was annoying 10k years ago, but payback with the horde who are likely pawns in this plot is more important..


    And you think that is quality writing or justifiable reason for absence? As bad as the war of thorns was, it is nothing compared to the genocide of the sundering that has caused that particular group to live and carry out a 10k year long vigil, farming their every action and purpose, and you think darkshore is more important?


    Darkshore a zone who's warfront Tyrande is absent in (only there for the pre-quest) and half the ngiht elves aren't even present - no illidari, no farondis, no shen'drlar, no shandris, , no dreamwardens, - only darnassian sentinel a, huntresses and the druids of that region..

    and you think the others not there shouldn't be leading their allies through their ancient capital, birth place of their race, and site of first contact with their goddess..

    I mean come on.!?
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2019-04-20 at 11:33 AM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who the hell cares about some beef from 10k years ago? Night Elves are being exterminated as a race in the Ashenvale right now, you propose Night Elf leader to throw that all in the gutter and go chasing after shadows of the past or some silly epeen contest you present here?

    Really? That would be "good writing"?


    If Tyrande and Malfurion would be leisurely chilling and playing around in some secluded lake in Val'sharah, then it would make sense for them to pack up and go, but right now frikkin' Ashenvale is burning and Darkshore is not really out of the woods yet. Guess what is more important for them.
    Blizzard clrearly thinks they have time to spare to have them standing next the other racial leaders for the extreme and important task of watching Anduin get a Ship.
    Also, things in Kalimdor seems to be more or less under control and are actually incharge of Maiev who's currently leading the assault on Darkshore.
    And as a final note, Blizzard are the ones who write these stories so it once again shows that cound't care less about night elves that they decided to plan Nazjatar incursion while Tyrande and co are conveniently busy somewhere else so they can't be a part of it.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    And you think that is quality writing or justifiable reason for absence?
    Yes?

    If anything - the most convenient characters miraculously popping up at the most convenient time is what bad writing is. Why it would be on the level of some shoddy C level school story if Tyrande and Malfurion would somehow be on that ship that was not even going to Nazjatar ending up in Nazjatar and confronting Azshara, all the while Ashenvale is getting wrecked - which it does right this moment.


    It would be akin to these shitty dramas where the same shitty interested party overhearing critical conversation between 2 characters play and this of all things driving the shitty plot forward and this being juggled around with the very same action pushing plot forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Darkshore a zone who's warfront Tyrande is absent in (only there for the pre-quest) and half the ngiht elves aren't even present - no illidari, no farondis, no shen'drlar, no shandris, , no dreamwardens, - only darnassian sentinel a, huntresses and the druids of that region..

    and you think the others not there shouldn't be leading their allies through their ancient capital, birth place of their race, and site of first contact with their goddess..

    I mean come on.!?
    Darkshore is not all there is to Night Elves and it's still pretty obviously contested, alongside with Ashenvale, which you can plainly read and discern from mission quests. So yes, she's there with her hubby and fighting for survival of her people.

    That takes precedence to everything. Even to Azshara. Why she spurned both Anduin and Elune for that - it's not a small thing and now you suddenly want her to throw that away and go hell knows where for hell knows what? Really?

    I think we've plenty established why she is not in Nazjatar from the beginning already, the only thing to cover is this "oh well she can take a portal" nonsense. This she could, but I bet that it's not her most pressing concern at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gfrancescolt86 View Post
    Blizzard clrearly thinks they have time to spare to have them standing next the other racial leaders for the extreme and important task of watching Anduin get a Ship.
    Also, things in Kalimdor seems to be more or less under control and are actually incharge of Maiev who's currently leading the assault on Darkshore.
    And as a final note, Blizzard are the ones who write these stories so it once again shows that cound't care less about night elves that they decided to plan Nazjatar incursion while Tyrande and co are conveniently busy somewhere else so they can't be a part of it.
    Kalimdor is not under control and it's definitely not in the clear. Other than that you yourself see how retarded is having her away from her people at this time, so what now - do this idiocy tenfold?

    If anything, you should be glad she saved herself from disgrace of being duped into freeing N'zoth while abandoning her people.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2019-04-20 at 12:16 PM.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes?

    If anything - the most convenient characters miraculously popping up at the most convenient time is what bad writing is. Why it would be on the level of some shoddy C level school story if Tyrande and Malfurion would somehow be on that ship that was not even going to Nazjatar ending up in Nazjatar and confronting Azshara, all the while Ashenvale is getting wrecked - which it does right this moment.


    It would be akin to these shitty dramas where the same shitty interested party overhearing critical conversation between 2 characters play and this of all things driving the shitty plot forward and this being juggled around with the very same action pushing plot forward.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Darkshore is not all there is to Night Elves and it's still pretty obviously contested, alongside with Ashenvale, which you can plainly read and discern from mission quests. So yes, she's there with her hubby and fighting for survival of her people.

    That takes precedence to everything. Even to Azshara. Why she spurned both Anduin and Elune for that - it's not a small thing and now you suddenly want her to throw that away and go hell knows where for hell knows what? Really?

    I think we've plenty established why she is not in Nazjatar from the beginning already, the only thing to cover is this "oh well she can take a portal" nonsense. This she could, but I bet that it's not her most pressing concern at the moment.

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    Kalimdor is not under control and it's definitely not in the clear. Other than that you yourself see how retarded is having her away from her people at this time, so what now - do this idiocy tenfold?

    If anything, you should be glad she saved herself from disgrace of being duped into freeing N'zoth while abandoning her people.
    I completly understand that Tyrande should be waging war in Kalimdor. What I'm upset about is that once again we are told and not shown things. All the fuzz about the ritual and we don't see her at all. And I'm mostly mad that Blizz chose to write the story about Azshara at the very same time Night Elves are busy somewhere else. They chose to leave them aside to face their former Queen and the person responsible for the biggest massacre their race has ever known. If devs really wanted to write good stuff for Night Elves they should've given us Azshara related things for later use in order to make NE a core aspect of that assault.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yes?

    If anything - the most convenient characters miraculously popping up at the most convenient time is what bad writing is. Why it would be on the level of some shoddy C level school story if Tyrande and Malfurion would somehow be on that ship that was not even going to Nazjatar ending up in Nazjatar and confronting Azshara, all the while Ashenvale is getting wrecked - which it does right this moment.


    It would be akin to these shitty dramas where the same shitty interested party overhearing critical conversation between 2 characters play and this of all things driving the shitty plot forward and this being juggled around with the very same action pushing plot forward.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Darkshore is not all there is to Night Elves and it's still pretty obviously contested, alongside with Ashenvale, which you can plainly read and discern from mission quests. So yes, she's there with her hubby and fighting for survival of her people.

    That takes precedence to everything. Even to Azshara. Why she spurned both Anduin and Elune for that - it's not a small thing and now you suddenly want her to throw that away and go hell knows where for hell knows what? Really?

    I think we've plenty established why she is not in Nazjatar from the beginning already, the only thing to cover is this "oh well she can take a portal" nonsense. This she could, but I bet that it's not her most pressing concern at the moment.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Kalimdor is not under control and it's definitely not in the clear. Other than that you yourself see how retarded is having her away from her people at this time, so what now - do this idiocy tenfold?

    If anything, you should be glad she saved herself from disgrace of being duped into freeing N'zoth while abandoning her people.
    Okay, it's obvious I dont agree with you, for reasons I have already stated. At this point I'd just be repeating myself.

    If you are happy with it, good for you. I actually prefer good stories that dint forget their earlier installments, and make the work feel like a grand tale because earlier stuff means something later on allowing those of us who have followed closely and enjoyed it, to connect well to the new stuff and see the things we loved get the progression and follow through that makes them and the time we spent buying reading and ultimately loving that stuff worth it, rather than this shameful amnesia t yet makes me feel like they either dont care to about their own story or are too lazy to connect all their dots.

    Missing kaldorei characters like Tyrande, Malfurion and Farindis against Azshara is pretty big. Night elves playing a small role against their queen in their ancient home in favour of humans .., I mean that's just ignoring them for the stuff that matters and relates to their lore.

    Sorry,I'm not satisfied at all, and disappointed with it
    Last edited by ravenmoon; Yesterday at 12:13 AM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The circumstances of our landing in Nazjatar make Jaina's appearance there natural, she is the Lord Admiral and it's her fleet and her ship that gave chase to the Horde there.

    On the other hand Tyrande suddenly being there would make little sense because she has her hands full with war in Darkshore and Ashenvale, her homeland, to take some leisurely ship trips half the globe away.

    Basically it would make no sense for Tyrande to somehow appear in Nazjatar, while it makes perfect natural sense for Jaina to be there.

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    Bullshit, you talk about integrity and consistency, yet you somehow want Tyrande (currently busy fighting in her bloody homeland) or hell Farondis miraculously materialize on Alliance shit giving chase to Horde in open seas?

    You totally miss the context there - these Horde and Alliance fleets playing game of catch with each other had no clue they will even end up in Nazjatar. It was a complete surprise for Alliance whose mission was to basically intercept Horde fleet without any cue to why they were headed where they were headed let alone that they will end up in Nazjatar of all things.
    and against who is fighting tyrande? the commander of the horde was nathanos and he travels to nazjatar

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