Thread: So mythic+

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  1. #1

    So mythic+

    I pug mythic+ (inb4 i get a million replies telling me to find friends/join a guild or push my own keys), and I've been trying for a couple weeks to get into a 15 group. I've been declined dozens of times. My io is 1202. My item level is 413 and the highest dungeon I've done is +14. I've 2 chested 13s. Done 18 timed +10-14 runs. I want to say first it's bs how everyone seems to expect you to have done a 15 in order to allow you into one but how can you if they don't give you a chance. I am polite and state my spec and even throw in that I have eng battle rez just in case (I don't plan on letting anyone die but some people ignore mechanics or I'd add that I have tailoring net, chastise, grip, shackle, and fear for affix kite, 2 dispels for reap and no cd offensive dispel. So I don't simply just queue anymore but do frequently try to sell myself and tell them I can handle it, to give me a chance. I also dps the entire run when I am able. Obviously heals are priority but every bit helps, especially interrupts via chastise.

    Well, just tonight I get invited to a AD 15. Finally, I thought. Let's do this. We get to second boss no issues. We're on second boss and our shaman is not doing much of anything and he stands in green mess and dies. I tried to rez him twice with my eng brez and the druid tank even went over to rez him. He said something along the lines of "Just wipe it guys" when we weren't dying. We actually finished the boss while he was dead, then he left group. Group disbanded. Looked some more and got into another 15. Was super happy. It was a TOS. Again, we make it to second boss with no issues. We're on boss and he's below half HP and one of the DPS goes down. Again, I tried twice to rez as did another person in my group and they did not take it. We ended up being overwhelmed and wiping after almost taking out boss. The DPS left group and we disbanded. I was about to give up but was super determined. So I looked yet again at group finder. Applied to numerous groups in between these runs only to get denied - this is usual as I mentioned beforehand. Anyways, I applied to a ML 15 and they invited me! What luck. Third times the charm, I thought. Again, we did fine up until second boss where tank didn't want to use totems but a stacking strat? I feared, mage nova'd. We tried to cc, but got stunned and was targeted and quake came. We wiped. Came back and used totems. Mage went down as he/she didn't run from mob. He wanted a rez but it was down. We killed the boss and moved on. The mage went offline and never came back. Group disbanded. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

    Sure, I could push my own key. Earlier on the week I had a 14 key after pushing a 12. I figured I'd be smart and be a little more particular about who I let in because I have in the past given people and chance and it's come back to bite me, but that may be my luck. Actually last week we had a mage who assured me he was good, did less dmg than the tank and said it was his spec. The key was killed, but the mage made off with a good key and a 415 with a socket. Anyways, so I invite higher io people for this other key I was trying to push and who would have guessed it, we're headed to 2nd boss and the tank is pulling funky and asking hunter to put flares up and at one point he went to run out of the dungeon instead of just tanking a group that was accidentally pulled. Him and 2 of the DPS start arguing. I say "guys, can we please proceed?" Because I advertised it as a chill group for completion but aimed to push. The tank tells the hunter "fk you mum," and then he left the group. I took the downgraded key and tried with a different group and did the same - was more particular about who I invited. We got in and everything was going fine until someone chain pulled another group and I tried my hardest to keep people up but we ended up wiping. Someone rage quit and we disbanded.

    I used to only keep playing wow because I pvp'd but now that I have barely done rated this xpac and none this season at all, I decided to get back into mythic and until now it's kept my interest but honestly, I was struggling to find reasons to get on wow and do stuff and with crap like this happening in like one of the last things I enjoy in game, I feel like just moving on and doing something else with my time, for real. I'm almost at 50 neck and I don't even know why I spent all that time grinding for what? Sorry to whine and be a debbie downer but I just wanted to share my recent experience with mythic+ and see if anyone has the same terrible luck?

    - - - Updated - - -

    So people leave over a single wipe (or no wipe at all) when they think or know we won't finish in time or even if we can finish in time. There's no rhyme or reason.
    Last edited by Evelyn; 2019-04-17 at 11:12 PM. Reason: grammar and clarification

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Evelyn View Post
    I pug mythic+ (inb4 i get a million replies telling me to find friends/join a guild or push my own keys), and I've been trying for a couple weeks to get into a 15 group. I've been declined dozens of times. My io is 1200 and my item level is 413 and the highest I've done is a 14 in time. I want to say first it's bs how people expect you to have done a 15 in order to allow you into one but how can they if you don't give them the chance.
    You get 146+ points for timing a +14 key. If I was progressing in +15s, I would look for people who have roughly timed each of the 10 dungeons on +14 before. You get 1460+ score for timing every dungeon on +14. If your score is around 1200, it means you should be looking for +13s, not for +15s. If someone invites you into +15 with 1200 score, it is probably not a good group.

    This has been the rule of the thumb while pugging keys since Legion. I never expected to get invited into keys 2-3 levels higher than I timed before (unless it's a "weekly just complete" type or run). It would essentially be a boost. I don't need to be boosted. Do you?
    Last edited by ID811717; 2019-04-14 at 07:20 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    You get 146+ points for timing a +14 key. If I was progressing in +15s, I would look for people who have roughly timed each of the 10 dungeons on +14 before. You get 1460+ score for timing every dungeon on +14. If your score is around 1200, it means you should be looking for +13s, not for +15s. If someone invites you into +15 with 1200 score, it is probably not a good group.

    This has been the rule of the thumb while pugging keys since Legion. I never expected to get invited into keys 2-3 levels higher than I timed before (unless it's a "weekly just complete" type or run). It would essentially be a boost. I don't need to be boosted.
    So if all I run is TD ever. And i have a +20 in time TD you wouldn't invite me to a +10 TD because my IO score is ~ 260 even tho I've done the same dungeon on a much higher difficulty? Literally makes no sense.
    Last edited by re1gn1te; 2019-04-14 at 04:45 AM.

  4. #4
    Yes. That is correct. Stop expecting people to carry you in pugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  5. #5
    You could find groups that do +14 then see what keys ye get? Maybe they'll keep you if you are good.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    So if all I run is TD ever. And i have a +20 in time TD you wouldn't invite me to a +10 TD because my IO score is ~ 260 even tho I've done the same dungeon on a much higher difficulty? Literally makes no sense.
    raider.io shows the highest key you've done. and if all you've done is a +20 TD I would assume you were carried and I wouldn't invite you

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    So if all I run is TD ever. And i have a +20 in time TD you wouldn't invite me to a +10 TD because my IO score is ~ 260 even tho I've done the same dungeon on a much higher difficulty? Literally makes no sense.
    I'd just assume you got carried in that TD. Even if you had the rest at 15, I'd still assume that TD was a carry, since it's so far ahead of the others

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
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    As someone who only did high M+ with a guild i dont understand why/how ppl want to expose themself to this pain.
    Good luck with ur key, ull get it done, hopefully sooner than later.

  9. #9
    You can push your score, you can pug +15. I had 800 score in s1 because i was doing only weekly +10 TD I had problems in s2 because of low score but i started pushing it and stopped afet 3 weeks so i ended with 1.7k+ score.

    Before doing first +15 i had every dungenon done on +14. There are also groups that push keys, they do +13, +14 and +15. Join them, if you do first key easy they will do more.

  10. #10
    The entire scoring system provides irrelevant and misleading data to judge pugging.
    As you correctly pointed out, having a 20 in a single dungeon demonstrates considerably more mastery than a 10 in every dungeon, yet the scoring disagrees - because its poorly made with the wrong information being taken into account.

    They need to consider WAY more data to make the score, or stop making it. Its being used in a destructive way in pugging and working in a counter productive way to what Blizzard has set up for the keystone system.

    Step 1 is score for affixes, not just levels. There is absolutely no reason what so ever there can't be a weekly score as well, other than they are lazy.
    After that, they need to find a way to weight for repeat clears.
    This isn't raiding. Progression clears are nice, but to truly master a dungeon you need to run it many many times, with many different comps, and many different affix sets.

    Next time you pug a 15 or higher, look at the applicants.
    I ran a little experiment on stream and saw MULTIPLE applicants for my 17 shrine who had less than 4 total shrines above a 15 ever completed.
    Same could be said for many dungeons.

    This is because the scoring system gives no incentive to actually finish the dungeon, despite Blizzard obviously giving plenty.
    So, it reinforces extremely bad habits, where people just keep joining keys hoping for a perfect run and if they don't get it they leave and join another.

    This shouldn't even be ALLOWED, let alone supported by a third party system.

    In the end, all you have is 2k score people who have 5 total clears of many dungeons and probably hundreds of departures within 5 minutes of starting.

    I wish there was a score for that, because I would avoid those people like the plague.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Yes. That is correct. Stop expecting people to carry you in pugs.
    Bah you can't be more wrong.If he runs only 1 dungeon and has low rating because of it but has done the specific dungeon 100 of times and even on 20+++ then he clearly is good at it.How much rating he has won't matter at this point.If i see that he has 260 rating but have done the dungeon a lot of times and even on higher dificulty i will take him right away.Not everything is about RIO score.There are many more filters there.
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  12. #12
    The biggest reason anyone does anything above a +10 is to time it for score. Once you get your 415 azerite, even residuum from higher keys doesn't really matter. Once you're ~410 ilvl even the increased amount of drops doesn't really matter because your chances of a good titanforge are still slim.

    So with that in mind, of course people leave if you obviously aren't going to time the key. It's not a problem with raider.io, in fact participation in higher keys would probably be significantly lower without raider.io score to strive for. The rewards for completing higher keys aren't there, honestly.

    (and to be clear, as a player who does 19+ keys, I don't think I should get better rewards for doing keys at that level. There are already too many grindy things that feel mandatory for the rewards. I don't know what the solution is for mythic+.)
    Last edited by GFK283; 2019-04-14 at 05:57 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by re1gn1te View Post
    So if all I run is TD ever. And i have a +20 in time TD you wouldn't invite me to a +10 TD because my IO score is ~ 260 even tho I've done the same dungeon on a much higher difficulty? Literally makes no sense.
    The stuff I wrote applies to normal pugging experience. And you will likely never meet a player with the track record that you mentioned. If you do - look at their raid progress, look at their raid logs, check the number times they timed a high TD key, look at their group rosters for these timed keys. And decide for yourself whether they are worth inviting, or whether they just purchased a boost run. You know, use common sense.
    Last edited by ID811717; 2019-04-14 at 06:48 AM.

  14. #14
    now imagine you're a fury warrior lol. i havent gotten into a single group over +8. but im pushing my own key up and im now at +12. but every other melee dps do way much more damage and have better utility. fun times.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    The entire scoring system provides irrelevant and misleading data to judge pugging.
    As you correctly pointed out, having a 20 in a single dungeon demonstrates considerably more mastery than a 10 in every dungeon, yet the scoring disagrees - because its poorly made with the wrong information being taken into account.

    They need to consider WAY more data to make the score, or stop making it. Its being used in a destructive way in pugging and working in a counter productive way to what Blizzard has set up for the keystone system.
    What about you make it a habit to right-click the people you consider inviting, copy the link to their raider.io page, and go look at their past runs? In game: you see their overall score, you see their highest key overall, and you see their highest key in the dungeon you are going to do. That should give you enough information to discard most of the players applying for your +17 Shrine key that have not timed the dungeon even at +15 before.

    All your complaints about score are not actually pointing at any problems with the score, they are pointing at people being too lazy or too incompetent to use the information that is available at their fingertips. No score will replace common sense, it can not replace your ability to just visually scan past runs of some player for 10 seconds on raider.io website.

    The score mostly serves as the quick and easy way to reject people who are trying to jump well over their head. If I list a +22 TD key in LFG, and I instantly get 15-20 people with 2k score applying (2k means they on average timed all +17 keys and a couple of +18 keys), and none of them timed a TD key at least on +21 tyrannical before, I can reject all 15-20 of them without wasting my time to look each of them up on the website.
    Last edited by ID811717; 2019-04-14 at 07:19 AM.

  16. #16
    Raider I.O is bad for the game, blizz should just make a way to see what dungeons you had make if they were on time or not in their UI.
    The main issue is that players bealive they are too good (god know's why) to lose their time and just rage quit if they not doing a 101% perfect dungeon. Usually is the DPS fucking up but the tank will take the blame for pulling in a strange manner.
    Well good luck trying to the your 15.

  17. #17
    R.io is the biggest cancer this game has seen since Gearscore.
    Lose + all together and bring back challenge mode. Give us a reason to actually level and gear our alts.

  18. #18
    Immortal matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    You get 146+ points for timing a +14 key. If I was progressing in +15s, I would look for people who have roughly timed each of the 10 dungeons on +14 before. You get 1460+ score for timing every dungeon on +14. If your score is around 1200, it means you should be looking for +13s, not for +15s. If someone invites you into +15 with 1200 score, it is probably not a good group.

    This has been the rule of the thumb while pugging keys since Legion. I never expected to get invited into keys 2-3 levels higher than I timed before (unless it's a "weekly just complete" type or run). It would essentially be a boost. I don't need to be boosted. Do you?
    That might be the most asenine way of using raider score imo. If any group invites you solely on your "score" and not looking into the context of said number is the group that is bad.
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  19. #19
    Btw, what's the difference between checking someone on website, armory and in-game? If blizzard will ever addon in-game possibility to check people's mythic+ progression nothing will change because people will stop asking for 1500 score, they will ask for 10x +14 in time.

    If someone is checking score only he is just handicapped. You can time 5x +17 and 5x +10 and get declined on +15 run because of score. It's also important to keep addon updated or always check website not via addon in-game.

  20. #20
    I've applied plenty of times to ~10M+ keys and didn't get invite because I've got <1k raider.io score... but I should have. It's because the party leaders were stupid and don't know how to use it properly.

    I'm avoiding certain dungeons, such as Temple of Sethraliss or Motherlode, so it's obvious that my score will be lower than average for that level of the dungeon... but if I've done Tol Dagor a few times on levels higher than 10, then why not inviting me just for the weekly cache(+10)?
    But fortunately there are some people who know how to use raider.io properly, so I'm still getting invites.

    Yeah, people are still leaving after one wipe. Even on the lower dungeons.

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