Thread: So mythic+

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  1. #141
    Herald of the Titans Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    The entire scoring system provides irrelevant and misleading data to judge pugging.
    As you correctly pointed out, having a 20 in a single dungeon demonstrates considerably more mastery than a 10 in every dungeon, yet the scoring disagrees - because its poorly made with the wrong information being taken into account.

    They need to consider WAY more data to make the score, or stop making it. Its being used in a destructive way in pugging and working in a counter productive way to what Blizzard has set up for the keystone system.

    Step 1 is score for affixes, not just levels. There is absolutely no reason what so ever there can't be a weekly score as well, other than they are lazy.
    After that, they need to find a way to weight for repeat clears.
    This isn't raiding. Progression clears are nice, but to truly master a dungeon you need to run it many many times, with many different comps, and many different affix sets.

    Next time you pug a 15 or higher, look at the applicants.
    I ran a little experiment on stream and saw MULTIPLE applicants for my 17 shrine who had less than 4 total shrines above a 15 ever completed.
    Same could be said for many dungeons.

    This is because the scoring system gives no incentive to actually finish the dungeon, despite Blizzard obviously giving plenty.
    So, it reinforces extremely bad habits, where people just keep joining keys hoping for a perfect run and if they don't get it they leave and join another.

    This shouldn't even be ALLOWED, let alone supported by a third party system.

    In the end, all you have is 2k score people who have 5 total clears of many dungeons and probably hundreds of departures within 5 minutes of starting.

    I wish there was a score for that, because I would avoid those people like the plague.
    Honestly this would be resolved if they only add negative scores for ppl leaving.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Evelyn View Post
    I'm a single timed run away from 1300 io. So today I've been trying to raise my highest time dungeon and decided to start with Kings Rest. First 2 runs/groups split up mid way through. We still could have made the time in the second group but the tank left after pulling the third boss and mobs before it and then leaving group. He was pissed that someone didn't do exactly what he said when it was a weird/unnecessary call. The third run we finished but not in time. So I try an Atal'Dazar and that splits up mid way through. The tank was shit talking someone. Tried AD again and we finish but not in time. Half a minute over. Then Motherlode and we finish but not in time. Still no rating. No gear upgrades either but was mainly just there for the rating. See how fun it can be to grind rating? Hey Blizzard, this week's affix really sucks for healers. At least for holy priests.

    Edit: Just did a TOS but again didn't finish in time. A minute over. I think I'm just going to take a break from the game until next week.

    Edit: Just did a KR and 3 minutes over time. Tank released when I was brezzing him and we had to wait for him to run back. Rogue and Hunter died to standing in raptor strikes and released and we had to wait for them to run back. Use all my brez on dps dying to axes on 3rd boss.
    This is a really really bad week to try to push

  3. #143
    Hmmm, this thread seems familiar. Like that annoying neighbor that pops up every day.

    There's a player pool of thousands of players running mythics, why on earth would anyone pick a worse option in regards to experience, item level or raider io? You aren't a special snowflake.

  4. #144
    Entire m+ scoring system would make sense if it (somehow) awarded players with the score based on their individual performance, rather than giving every single member of a group the same score no matter what.
    Now it's completely irrelevant

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    Entire m+ scoring system would make sense if it (somehow) awarded players with the score based on their individual performance, rather than giving every single member of a group the same score no matter what.
    Now it's completely irrelevant
    I doubt thats possible in any meaningful way.

    Dude pops CD's on reaping that will die anyway to inflate his numbers, boss takes 1 min longer... Did he score well now or badly?

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    I doubt thats possible in any meaningful way.

    Dude pops CD's on reaping that will die anyway to inflate his numbers, boss takes 1 min longer... Did he score well now or badly?
    Yea i agree, i know it's close to impossible to write an algorthm with every possible variable, just a hypothetical idea

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    Entire m+ scoring system would make sense if it (somehow) awarded players with the score based on their individual performance, rather than giving every single member of a group the same score no matter what.
    Now it's completely irrelevant
    M+ score rates your experience, not your skills. Better individual performance will lead to you being able to gain experience in higher keys. But beyond that, it does not even make sense for M+ score to be affected by your individual performance.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    M+ score rates your experience, not your skills. Better individual performance will lead to you being able to gain experience in higher keys. But beyond that, it does not even make sense for M+ score to be affected by your individual performance.
    The problem is that experience doesn't necessarily translate to.. anything basically, it's like a sleepy student "attending" a lecture, he's there, but he's not getting anything out of it.
    It's mostly tanks that can get away with pretty much anything during easy weeks at the expense of most classes' ability to cleave the s**t out of everything, then another week comes along with new affixes that requires a little more tank involvement and all of a sudden we have all these tanks @ ~2k score without having single a clue about making proper pulls in +15 key. I'm not saying it's all tanks obviously, but the scoring system is extremely unrealiable, especially in that medium 14-18 key range

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    Honestly this would be resolved if they only add negative scores for ppl leaving.
    I've had annoying experiences the last few weeks: retarded dps who didn't take into account the affixes. Whether it's on bolstering week (cool, a matron with 3 million HP on Underrot, have fun) or on bursting weeks (small dinos on AD? Better aoe like an ape and blame the healer afterwards!)

    I should be penalized because I don't want to be trapped with retards? The +5/+6 keys are a cesspool of atrocious players, and it's nonsense to be penalized because I don't want to deal with other peoples stupidity.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2019-04-21 at 12:44 PM.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by piitxu View Post
    find a guild, make friends IG. Then you can easily push your keys and score...
    Easier said than done.

  11. #151
    Herald of the Titans Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    I've had annoying experiences the last few weeks: retarded dps who didn't take into account the affixes. Whether it's on bolstering week (cool, a matron with 3 million HP on Underrot, have fun) or on bursting weeks (small dinos on AD? Better aoe like an ape and blame the healer afterwards!)

    I should be penalized because I don't want to be trapped with retards? The +5/+6 keys are a cesspool of atrocious players, and it's nonsense to be penalized because I don't want to deal with other peoples stupidity.
    It will be rough at first due to where we are for the months of incomplete data gathering. But it will gain momentum fairly quickly and resolve itself.

    Eventually you'd have a metric to see clearly that certain players are detrimental to the key and it would either filter them out more or force them to be better.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  12. #152
    Yes, there are some people that use raider.io incorrectly. There are way more extremely over entitled people. Author said he has 1200 rating. That means he still didn't even time all 12s and he wants to progress 15s. It doesn't make any sense. I myself currently progress 20s, should I be invited to 22s-24s? The answer is NO and I don't. But I am easily invited to 19s that I am missing and some 20s. After I am done with those people will invite me 21s.

    Some people spoke about single dungeon rating and so. If I see someone with very few dungeons completed has high rating or some dungeons significantly higher level than others, I assume that it was boost (either bought one or in guild group).

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    As someone who only did high M+ with a guild i dont understand why/how ppl want to expose themself to this pain.
    Good luck with ur key, ull get it done, hopefully sooner than later.
    nice sig duder

  14. #154
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgilityTank View Post
    nice sig duder
    Thanks? 10chars

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenis View Post
    Yes, there are some people that use raider.io incorrectly. There are way more extremely over entitled people. Author said he has 1200 rating. That means he still didn't even time all 12s and he wants to progress 15s. It doesn't make any sense. I myself currently progress 20s, should I be invited to 22s-24s? The answer is NO and I don't. But I am easily invited to 19s that I am missing and some 20s. After I am done with those people will invite me 21s.
    So if you've done 21's in time, you think it's asking too much to be let into a 22? That is closer to what I am talking about. Needing to have timed 12 in all dungeons when a number of dungeons I haven't timed in 12, I've timed in 13 and 14, its a ridiculous requirement.

    Another example, the other day I tried to get into a 13 Kings Rest and the leader asked me If I've timed KR 13 before. I said no, I had only timed a 12 KR. He said sorry not good enough then put me on ignore. Which was strange because I wasn't harassing him or anything. I just replied with lol? Then you have people who haven't even completed said dungeon on that level in time demanding that others looking to join, have, or higher. But I'm entitled for thinking excessive requirements are excessive. Like those entitled millennial's. They want a job but lack an x amount of experience but aren't given a chance to get experience aka field experience loop.

    I didn't even do any of the dungeons or normal/heroic/mythic. I either read up or watched quick videos and started with an 8 and was doing 10s later my first week. If people have gear and skill and knowledge of dungeons and affix, they can do well and skip levels in their climb. Obviously I don't expect to be skipping* many levels at high mythic+ but 1-2 is not out of the question. I'd consider you an elitist for expecting everyone to jump through an x number of hoops to gain your respect and trust that they are capable, when it is clearly not necessary to prove oneself capable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenis View Post
    Some people spoke about single dungeon rating and so. If I see someone with very few dungeons completed has high rating or some dungeons significantly higher level than others, I assume that it was boost (either bought one or in guild group).
    I don't disagree with you here, but that isn't really what is being debated.

    I just did a 16 last week and 4 people had lower io than me, one under 1k, and 3 people had lower item level than me. Did I get carried?? We unfortunately didn't make it in time (over by 5 minutes) but that may have something to do with the tank unnecessarily pulling multiple groups at once, which he did 3 damn times to my confusion. They didn't seem to care that the key got killed, but it didn't need to be.
    Last edited by Evelyn; 2019-04-23 at 11:17 AM. Reason: *

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    The problem is that experience doesn't necessarily translate to.. anything basically, it's like a sleepy student "attending" a lecture, he's there, but he's not getting anything out of it.
    It's mostly tanks that can get away with pretty much anything during easy weeks at the expense of most classes' ability to cleave the s**t out of everything, then another week comes along with new affixes that requires a little more tank involvement and all of a sudden we have all these tanks @ ~2k score without having single a clue about making proper pulls in +15 key. I'm not saying it's all tanks obviously, but the scoring system is extremely unrealiable, especially in that medium 14-18 key range
    Yeah it's annoying (especially sanguine week), but it at least shows they're carryable.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenis View Post
    Yes, there are some people that use raider.io incorrectly. There are way more extremely over entitled people. Author said he has 1200 rating. That means he still didn't even time all 12s and he wants to progress 15s. It doesn't make any sense. I myself currently progress 20s, should I be invited to 22s-24s? The answer is NO and I don't. But I am easily invited to 19s that I am missing and some 20s. After I am done with those people will invite me 21s.
    .
    That only works as long as you're playing a certain class though

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    The problem is that experience doesn't necessarily translate to.. anything basically, it's like a sleepy student "attending" a lecture, he's there, but he's not getting anything out of it.
    It's mostly tanks that can get away with pretty much anything during easy weeks at the expense of most classes' ability to cleave the s**t out of everything, then another week comes along with new affixes that requires a little more tank involvement and all of a sudden we have all these tanks @ ~2k score without having single a clue about making proper pulls in +15 key. I'm not saying it's all tanks obviously, but the scoring system is extremely unrealiable, especially in that medium 14-18 key range
    Like I've seen some people say, raider io score just means you've played a lot not that you're good.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by shyguybman View Post
    Like I've seen some people say, raider io score just means you've played a lot not that you're good.
    Yeah, and you'd think those two would be correlated... but not necessarily

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Evelyn View Post
    So if you've done 21's in time, you think it's asking too much to be let into a 22? That is closer to what I am talking about. Needing to have timed 12 in all dungeons when a number of dungeons I haven't timed in 12, I've timed in 13 and 14, its a ridiculous requirement.

    Another example, the other day I tried to get into a 13 Kings Rest and the leader asked me If I've timed KR 13 before. I said no, I had only timed a 12 KR. He said sorry not good enough then put me on ignore. Which was strange because I wasn't harassing him or anything. I just replied with lol? Then you have people who haven't even completed said dungeon on that level in time demanding that others looking to join, have, or higher. But I'm entitled for thinking excessive requirements are excessive. Like those entitled millennial's. They want a job but lack an x amount of experience but aren't given a chance to get experience aka field experience loop.

    I didn't even do any of the dungeons or normal/heroic/mythic. I either read up or watched quick videos and started with an 8 and was doing 10s later my first week. If people have gear and skill and knowledge of dungeons and affix, they can do well and skip levels in their climb. Obviously I don't expect to be skipped many levels at high mythic+ but 1-2 is not out of the question. I'd consider you an elitist for expecting everyone to jump through an x number of hoops to gain your respect and trust that they are capable, when it is clearly not necessary to prove oneself capable.

    I don't disagree with you here, but that isn't really what is being debated.

    I just did a 16 last week and 4 people had lower io than me, one under 1k, and 3 people had lower item level than me. Did I get carried?? We unfortunately didn't make it in time (over by 5 minutes) but that may have something to do with the tank unnecessarily pulling multiple groups at once, which he did 3 damn times to my confusion. They didn't seem to care that the key got killed, but it didn't need to be.
    Just run your own key and you don't have to worry about any of this crap. That's why keystones exist in the first place.

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