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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    Lol, 99% of the people playing classic will be 30year old wow veterans. I prefer a system that works well for this 99% over one that suits your hypothetical Billie who likely won't even exist. This 13 year old will spend a year lvling and will likely quit before ever doing serious group content.
    I'm not really interested in this issue, but just browsing some topics.

    I had to say this post has an exceptional amount of assumptions, baseless percentages, mistakes and hyperbole. It's astonishing that you mention something being hypothetical in your post. It was quite entertaining.

    Also, his name was Billy. Not Billie.

  2. #62
    Mind if I roll need

  3. #63
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    As some one who played vanilla

    It didn't matter then and it won't matter on Classic. Ninja looting will be alive and well in classic with no major server-wide outrage.

    not to mention AFAIK there has been no announcement that people won't be able to pay for name change services and that sort of thing.
    It's hilarious that people think that someones "reputation" will be "foiled" after he'll be accused of ninja looting in /1 or something. Usually people just laugh at those who accuse people of such things, and no one actually bothers with making screenshots of chat where loot rules are described, so most of the time "ninja" can say that he reserved that piece of loot, and his guildies and friends will gladly back it up (since most likely the did reserved it before adding pugs in their raid).

    Even then, this guy just got his hands on a sweet piece of loot and became valuable character in late-vanilla, he won't be kicked from anywhere, in anything, depending on gear he may get poached because of that extra attention. Who would pass on a full-stocked tank warrior in late vanilla? Nobody. Even if he is a total asshole your guild will still have him around, because he makes a good training dummy for boss to hit and making a new one will take months.

    Anyways, people romanticizing this whole "server reputation" thing are going to have bad time when they'll realize that most players won't give a damn about them yelling "ninja looter!" at someone

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I never whined. At least with loot trading ninjas could still be punished. Now the innocent will be.
    How can you accidentally ninja loot? It's not like we are playing a version where FFA-by-default exists or loot master doesn't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xact4 View Post
    Then your server was crap. It did matter, I remember specifically avoiding known ninja looters. If you got called out in trade chat too many times, you were screwed. You were resigned to grouping with your guild, and if they had any sense they would kick you and you were double screwed. It rarely happened on purpose, the deterrent was real.
    Jesus, imagine you being called out in trade chat too many times by some angsty teen, because you disagree with him that Metallica - The One IS THE BEST SONG IN THE WORLD YO.

    I'd say if things like you describe happened on your server - it was a crap server.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    LOL, wtf server did you play on? even with way higher population, community reputation was a big deal. not just anyone could form successful raids in vanilla. ninja looters were ALWAYS scorned.
    Sadly, ninja looters usually were guys in charge of things, so these "guys don't invite him!" didn't" worked that well. You had an option to pass on raiding with him completely, and miss out of couple of raids (and would you really care about a rogue ninja if you play, say, a mage? or a priest? Not much, your gear is safe).

    We had couple of known ninjas on warsong on horde side, they were shunned, players spammed a lot of crap on them in global chat, but one of them was leading raids and his guild was one of the biggest, and second was a well geared tank. They also were very chill about all that crap because i don't remember them ever responding to bullshit thrown at them, at some point i even considered that people simply were talking lies about them
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2019-04-15 at 03:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  4. #64
    No one will care about 5m loots after the initial rush anyway... Seems logical to me that they won't pay GM's (it costs a lot to pay people) just to transfer blue gear (!!) because it was looted by "mistake". I've never contacted a gm for a blue loot because it took a lot of time to get an answer back then.
    Last edited by vashe9; 2019-04-15 at 06:17 AM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Sadly, ninja looters usually were guys in charge of things, so these "guys don't invite him!" didn't" worked that well. You had an option to pass on raiding with him completely, and miss out of couple of raids (and would you really care about a rogue ninja if you play, say, a mage? or a priest? Not much, your gear is safe).

    We had couple of known ninjas on warsong on horde side, they were shunned, players spammed a lot of crap on them in global chat, but one of them was leading raids and his guild was one of the biggest, and second was a well geared tank. They also were very chill about all that crap because i don't remember them ever responding to bullshit thrown at them, at some point i even considered that people simply were talking lies about them
    Yes, that happened on many servers, however that was exception. Cutting edge guilds on most realms have always been full of assholes who think they are better than everyone else and are allowed to do anything. Such players will abuse anything, so if loot is allowed to be traded in groups, they'd be first to form small groups and need on items for friends. Assholes will always be assholes.

    Vast majority of players did care about reputation and were affected by their actions. Those top guild assholes were rare exception.
    Bow to your Gnomish Overlords! Attempting to take over Azeroth since 2005.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Malum View Post
    I'm not really interested in this issue, but just browsing some topics.

    I had to say this post has an exceptional amount of assumptions, baseless percentages, mistakes and hyperbole. It's astonishing that you mention something being hypothetical in your post. It was quite entertaining.

    Also, his name was Billy. Not Billie.
    Thanks for your amazing addition to the subject. Yes my whole point was based on the fact that in my opinion 13yo will be a tiny minority of the playerbase, and thus it would be bad to base policies on those minorities.

    That is indeed my assumption, my opinion, that I voiced. Guess what, that's what discussion boards are for.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by bornlol View Post
    idk on illidan in wrath people would ninja VOA boss 90% of the time, you had to make your own group or you would be screwed. The server was so populated, unless you were a popular well known player you had no reputation.

    Idk how this will apply to vanilla though cause it's not as easy to build a 40man pug in 5minutes
    Illidan was in TbC but never mind that. By that time I was raiding with my guild so as far as TbC goes I was referring to 5man dungeons and common behaviour in general both inside and outside of WoW..

    Also I honestly don't know but did anyone actually PUG BT, SSC and MtH?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    Illidan was in TbC but never mind that. By that time I was raiding with my guild so as far as TbC goes I was referring to 5man dungeons and common behaviour in general both inside and outside of WoW..

    Also I honestly don't know but did anyone actually PUG BT, SSC and MtH?
    Yes at the end, but most groups gave up at Mother Shazzrah prior to 3.0 "let's destroy everything" patch (at least on my french server).

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    Yes, that happened on many servers, however that was exception. Cutting edge guilds on most realms have always been full of assholes who think they are better than everyone else and are allowed to do anything. Such players will abuse anything, so if loot is allowed to be traded in groups, they'd be first to form small groups and need on items for friends. Assholes will always be assholes.

    Vast majority of players did care about reputation and were affected by their actions. Those top guild assholes were rare exception.
    nope mate - this was the general rule.

    if you were playing bis spec and semi good geared toon you could do anything you wanted - and nobody would do anything.

    because nobody sane would kick geared attuned player - the cost (regearing/reatturning new players) was simply way to care for anyone to do anything.

    people who never raidded vanilla and only played pirate servers have just distorted view of reality because they trully belive that just becaus little timmy was spaming trade about "X is a ninja" that anyone cared .

    i cannot count how many time i seen my char names in trade all the way from vanilla to mop and not even once i heared anything about it in guilds.

    and i was terrible to others back then - all those stories you may have heared about ninjas ? ye that was me because i was edgy teenager back then who cares about only myself.

    my masterpiece was for example making 10 man raids and then when something which i wanted dropped i started to kick from raid everybody who could potentialy roll need on it. - did they raid disband ? sure but who cares - there is always next reset and next alt to gear up this reset. you remember those raids with "EVerything reserved " ? ye that was me - and it worked.

    by your standards i should be shunned by whole servers - never heared anything besides angry whispers which i eagerly reported and it led to ban of few people who very pestering me from multiple alts

    people really live in delusional world
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2019-04-15 at 07:27 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    because nobody sane would kick geared attuned player - the cost (regearing/reatturning new players) was simply way to care for anyone to do anything.
    Don't even start on a follow-up drama and chances, that one kicked "ninja" will end up being "the guy" (you know, "he gave me gold when i needed", "he helped me to attune my second char", "he is in my honour farming group", that guy) for half of your guild, and they'll quit right after you kick him, are quite high.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    Such players will abuse anything, so if loot is allowed to be traded in groups, they'd be first to form small groups and need on items for friends. Assholes will always be assholes.
    So, you imply that cutting edge guilds, instead of farming raids together, will spread out and take a chance that they'll win rolls on anything, waste crapton of time doing pugs, AND loot master will turn a blind eye that a warrior just rolled on a spell power mace, and a minute later this spell power mace turned out to be in hands of a paladin from the same guild? That doesn't make any sense.

    And needing items for friends was a thing since vanilla, so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #71
    Let me be clear here: I wanted classic but this was the line for me. The first fail was when they made classic client from a Legion client...

    Stripped-Legion Classic client (at the lowest graphic) runs at 5 fps on my old notebook.
    On private servers real Classic client runs at 60 fps...

    Get the fock out of here!

  12. #72
    it was a sure thing they will not hire thousands of GM like in vanilla times, business my friends

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It's hilarious that people think that someones "reputation" will be "foiled" after he'll be accused of ninja looting in /1 or something. Usually people just laugh at those who accuse people of such things, and no one actually bothers with making screenshots of chat where loot rules are described, so most of the time "ninja" can say that he reserved that piece of loot, and his guildies and friends will gladly back it up (since most likely the did reserved it before adding pugs in their raid).

    Even then, this guy just got his hands on a sweet piece of loot and became valuable character in late-vanilla, he won't be kicked from anywhere, in anything, depending on gear he may get poached because of that extra attention. Who would pass on a full-stocked tank warrior in late vanilla? Nobody. Even if he is a total asshole your guild will still have him around, because he makes a good training dummy for boss to hit and making a new one will take months.

    Anyways, people romanticizing this whole "server reputation" thing are going to have bad time when they'll realize that most players won't give a damn about them yelling "ninja looter!" at someone

    - - - Updated - - -



    How can you accidentally ninja loot? It's not like we are playing a version where FFA-by-default exists or loot master doesn't exist.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Jesus, imagine you being called out in trade chat too many times by some angsty teen, because you disagree with him that Metallica - The One IS THE BEST SONG IN THE WORLD YO.

    I'd say if things like you describe happened on your server - it was a crap server.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sadly, ninja looters usually were guys in charge of things, so these "guys don't invite him!" didn't" worked that well. You had an option to pass on raiding with him completely, and miss out of couple of raids (and would you really care about a rogue ninja if you play, say, a mage? or a priest? Not much, your gear is safe).

    We had couple of known ninjas on warsong on horde side, they were shunned, players spammed a lot of crap on them in global chat, but one of them was leading raids and his guild was one of the biggest, and second was a well geared tank. They also were very chill about all that crap because i don't remember them ever responding to bullshit thrown at them, at some point i even considered that people simply were talking lies about them
    I dont think this guy ever played vanilla... ninja looters were mostly NOT in charge of anything, the way ninjalooting happens in classic is when someone needs on something they shouldnt and dont actually need more than others. If you didnt know there were NO systems in place to prevent someone needing on an item they cant use... so people, who were not in charge of anything, were needing on items they only wanted to vendor for money or it was very trivial for them but still an upgrade, such selfishness can exist. (it happens all the way from deadmines up to anything at 60, but less likely at 60 since people didnt want a shitty reputation after spending so much time on the character already)

    I never saw BiS geared people ninjaing items in dungeons because frankly they didnt even do them anymore on those characters... and even if they did the same rules would have applied to them which is the need/greed-system and in that system it is possible to need on items you dont need.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by dhru2 View Post
    Let me be clear here: I wanted classic but this was the line for me. The first fail was when they made classic client from a Legion client...

    Stripped-Legion Classic client (at the lowest graphic) runs at 5 fps on my old notebook.
    On private servers real Classic client runs at 60 fps...

    Get the fock out of here!
    You're adorable... Blizzard's already going above and beyond to make the experience as authentic as is possible within reason, going as far as to make changes to things like spellbatching... but you're pissed off they're using a modern (read: optimized for modern hardware, cheatprotection, integrated in battlenet) client?

    Well don't let the door hit you in the backside. Blizzard should not try to cater to those who cannot be satisfied.

  15. #75
    I don't think this will be a problem, since all the raiders are wow veterans, and there won't be 12 million players to hide among either.
    Mother pus bucket!

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    I dont think this guy ever played vanilla... ninja looters were mostly NOT in charge of anything, the way ninjalooting happens in classic is when someone needs on something they shouldnt and dont actually need more than others. If you didnt know there were NO systems in place to prevent someone needing on an item they cant use... so people, who were not in charge of anything, were needing on items they only wanted to vendor for money or it was very trivial for them but still an upgrade, such selfishness can exist. (it happens all the way from deadmines up to anything at 60, but less likely at 60 since people didnt want a shitty reputation after spending so much time on the character already)

    I never saw BiS geared people ninjaing items in dungeons because frankly they didnt even do them anymore on those characters... and even if they did the same rules would have applied to them which is the need/greed-system and in that system it is possible to need on items you dont need.
    whatever you want to call it, but ninjaing was always someone taking items without a roll, by swapping loot rule, or violating loot rules in the first place. Someone who rolls need on everything is easy to get rid of by, you know, not using this loot rule.

    You do realize how people get full BiS gear? If you are ready to actually form a pug and entitle yourself for some piece you miss for your full BiS you tell that upfront (or don't and get called a ninja when you take that perdition's blade and leave) unless you do it all proper with guildmates. Running pug raids with need or greed is ridiculous, you do that with people you know, not with strangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    I dont think this guy ever played vanilla... ninja looters were mostly NOT in charge of anything, the way ninjalooting happens in classic is when someone needs on something they shouldnt and dont actually need more than others. If you didnt know there were NO systems in place to prevent someone needing on an item they cant use... so people, who were not in charge of anything, were needing on items they only wanted to vendor for money or it was very trivial for them but still an upgrade, such selfishness can exist. (it happens all the way from deadmines up to anything at 60, but less likely at 60 since people didnt want a shitty reputation after spending so much time on the character already)

    I never saw BiS geared people ninjaing items in dungeons because frankly they didnt even do them anymore on those characters... and even if they did the same rules would have applied to them which is the need/greed-system and in that system it is possible to need on items you dont need.
    Ninjalooting is pretty much only a thing in 5 mans and badly organized raidpugs. How big of a problem is it really?

    True, if you ninjaloot my blue gear from BRD I'll be pissed, and I'll probably put you on my personal blacklist. Might throw out a comment in /1 that 99.9% of people will ignore. I'll tell you who probably won't ignore it though, my friends and possibly my guild.

    So sure, you get away with it a couple of times. It certainly won't be that nobody plays with you anymore. There will however be groups that exclude you. So a first time offense may not do much, but if you repeat thats an oil stain that spreads, and slowly eats way at your player experience.

    As a general rule, it's just not worth the hassle to ninja stuff =/

  18. #78
    A lot of misinformation going on in here, loot trading won't be in 5 man dungeons. So the whining about party of 3 friends needing on everything in 5man is incorrect.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapse3012 View Post
    it was a sure thing they will not hire thousands of GM like in vanilla times, business my friends
    It's more common sense than business in this case let's be honest

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    It's more common sense than business in this case let's be honest
    Funny how often those two things go hand in hand, isn't it?

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