Loot Trading in Classic Update

[Bildur]

idk on illidan in wrath people would ninja VOA boss 90% of the time, you had to make your own group or you would be screwed. The server was so populated, unless you were a popular well known player you had no reputation.

Idk how this will apply to vanilla though cause it's not as easy to build a 40man pug in 5minutes

Illidan was in TbC but never mind that. By that time I was raiding with my guild so as far as TbC goes I was referring to 5man dungeons and common behaviour in general both inside and outside of WoW..

Also I honestly don't know but did anyone actually PUG BT, SSC and MtH?

[vashe9]

Illidan was in TbC but never mind that. By that time I was raiding with my guild so as far as TbC goes I was referring to 5man dungeons and common behaviour in general both inside and outside of WoW..

Also I honestly don't know but did anyone actually PUG BT, SSC and MtH?

Yes at the end, but most groups gave up at Mother Shazzrah prior to 3.0 "let's destroy everything" patch (at least on my french server).

[kamuimac]

Yes, that happened on many servers, however that was exception. Cutting edge guilds on most realms have always been full of assholes who think they are better than everyone else and are allowed to do anything. Such players will abuse anything, so if loot is allowed to be traded in groups, they'd be first to form small groups and need on items for friends. Assholes will always be assholes.

Vast majority of players did care about reputation and were affected by their actions. Those top guild assholes were rare exception.

nope mate - this was the general rule.

if you were playing bis spec and semi good geared toon you could do anything you wanted - and nobody would do anything.

because nobody sane would kick geared attuned player - the cost (regearing/reatturning new players) was simply way to care for anyone to do anything.

people who never raidded vanilla and only played pirate servers have just distorted view of reality because they trully belive that just becaus little timmy was spaming trade about "X is a ninja" that anyone cared .

i cannot count how many time i seen my char names in trade all the way from vanilla to mop and not even once i heared anything about it in guilds.

and i was terrible to others back then - all those stories you may have heared about ninjas ? ye that was me because i was edgy teenager back then who cares about only myself.

my masterpiece was for example making 10 man raids and then when something which i wanted dropped i started to kick from raid everybody who could potentialy roll need on it. - did they raid disband ? sure but who cares - there is always next reset and next alt to gear up this reset. you remember those raids with "EVerything reserved " ? ye that was me - and it worked.

by your standards i should be shunned by whole servers - never heared anything besides angry whispers which i eagerly reported and it led to ban of few people who very pestering me from multiple alts

people really live in delusional world

[Charge me Doctor]

because nobody sane would kick geared attuned player - the cost (regearing/reatturning new players) was simply way to care for anyone to do anything.

Don't even start on a follow-up drama and chances, that one kicked "ninja" will end up being "the guy" (you know, "he gave me gold when i needed", "he helped me to attune my second char", "he is in my honour farming group", that guy) for half of your guild, and they'll quit right after you kick him, are quite high.

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Such players will abuse anything, so if loot is allowed to be traded in groups, they'd be first to form small groups and need on items for friends. Assholes will always be assholes.

So, you imply that cutting edge guilds, instead of farming raids together, will spread out and take a chance that they'll win rolls on anything, waste crapton of time doing pugs, AND loot master will turn a blind eye that a warrior just rolled on a spell power mace, and a minute later this spell power mace turned out to be in hands of a paladin from the same guild? That doesn't make any sense.

And needing items for friends was a thing since vanilla, so...

[dhru2]

Let me be clear here: I wanted classic but this was the line for me. The first fail was when they made classic client from a Legion client...

Stripped-Legion Classic client (at the lowest graphic) runs at 5 fps on my old notebook.
On private servers real Classic client runs at 60 fps...

Get the fock out of here!

[Relapse3012]

it was a sure thing they will not hire thousands of GM like in vanilla times, business my friends

[Otaka]

It's hilarious that people think that someones "reputation" will be "foiled" after he'll be accused of ninja looting in /1 or something. Usually people just laugh at those who accuse people of such things, and no one actually bothers with making screenshots of chat where loot rules are described, so most of the time "ninja" can say that he reserved that piece of loot, and his guildies and friends will gladly back it up (since most likely the did reserved it before adding pugs in their raid).

Even then, this guy just got his hands on a sweet piece of loot and became valuable character in late-vanilla, he won't be kicked from anywhere, in anything, depending on gear he may get poached because of that extra attention. Who would pass on a full-stocked tank warrior in late vanilla? Nobody. Even if he is a total asshole your guild will still have him around, because he makes a good training dummy for boss to hit and making a new one will take months.

Anyways, people romanticizing this whole "server reputation" thing are going to have bad time when they'll realize that most players won't give a damn about them yelling "ninja looter!" at someone

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How can you accidentally ninja loot? It's not like we are playing a version where FFA-by-default exists or loot master doesn't exist.

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Jesus, imagine you being called out in trade chat too many times by some angsty teen, because you disagree with him that Metallica - The One IS THE BEST SONG IN THE WORLD YO.

I'd say if things like you describe happened on your server - it was a crap server.

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Sadly, ninja looters usually were guys in charge of things, so these "guys don't invite him!" didn't" worked that well. You had an option to pass on raiding with him completely, and miss out of couple of raids (and would you really care about a rogue ninja if you play, say, a mage? or a priest? Not much, your gear is safe).

We had couple of known ninjas on warsong on horde side, they were shunned, players spammed a lot of crap on them in global chat, but one of them was leading raids and his guild was one of the biggest, and second was a well geared tank. They also were very chill about all that crap because i don't remember them ever responding to bullshit thrown at them, at some point i even considered that people simply were talking lies about them

I dont think this guy ever played vanilla... ninja looters were mostly NOT in charge of anything, the way ninjalooting happens in classic is when someone needs on something they shouldnt and dont actually need more than others. If you didnt know there were NO systems in place to prevent someone needing on an item they cant use... so people, who were not in charge of anything, were needing on items they only wanted to vendor for money or it was very trivial for them but still an upgrade, such selfishness can exist. (it happens all the way from deadmines up to anything at 60, but less likely at 60 since people didnt want a shitty reputation after spending so much time on the character already)

I never saw BiS geared people ninjaing items in dungeons because frankly they didnt even do them anymore on those characters... and even if they did the same rules would have applied to them which is the need/greed-system and in that system it is possible to need on items you dont need.

[Veggie50]

Let me be clear here: I wanted classic but this was the line for me. The first fail was when they made classic client from a Legion client...

Stripped-Legion Classic client (at the lowest graphic) runs at 5 fps on my old notebook.
On private servers real Classic client runs at 60 fps...

Get the fock out of here!

You're adorable... Blizzard's already going above and beyond to make the experience as authentic as is possible within reason, going as far as to make changes to things like spellbatching... but you're pissed off they're using a modern (read: optimized for modern hardware, cheatprotection, integrated in battlenet) client?

Well don't let the door hit you in the backside. Blizzard should not try to cater to those who cannot be satisfied.

[tankbug]

I don't think this will be a problem, since all the raiders are wow veterans, and there won't be 12 million players to hide among either.

[Charge me Doctor]

I dont think this guy ever played vanilla... ninja looters were mostly NOT in charge of anything, the way ninjalooting happens in classic is when someone needs on something they shouldnt and dont actually need more than others. If you didnt know there were NO systems in place to prevent someone needing on an item they cant use... so people, who were not in charge of anything, were needing on items they only wanted to vendor for money or it was very trivial for them but still an upgrade, such selfishness can exist. (it happens all the way from deadmines up to anything at 60, but less likely at 60 since people didnt want a shitty reputation after spending so much time on the character already)

I never saw BiS geared people ninjaing items in dungeons because frankly they didnt even do them anymore on those characters... and even if they did the same rules would have applied to them which is the need/greed-system and in that system it is possible to need on items you dont need.

whatever you want to call it, but ninjaing was always someone taking items without a roll, by swapping loot rule, or violating loot rules in the first place. Someone who rolls need on everything is easy to get rid of by, you know, not using this loot rule.

You do realize how people get full BiS gear? If you are ready to actually form a pug and entitle yourself for some piece you miss for your full BiS you tell that upfront (or don't and get called a ninja when you take that perdition's blade and leave) unless you do it all proper with guildmates. Running pug raids with need or greed is ridiculous, you do that with people you know, not with strangers.

[Veggie50]

I dont think this guy ever played vanilla... ninja looters were mostly NOT in charge of anything, the way ninjalooting happens in classic is when someone needs on something they shouldnt and dont actually need more than others. If you didnt know there were NO systems in place to prevent someone needing on an item they cant use... so people, who were not in charge of anything, were needing on items they only wanted to vendor for money or it was very trivial for them but still an upgrade, such selfishness can exist. (it happens all the way from deadmines up to anything at 60, but less likely at 60 since people didnt want a shitty reputation after spending so much time on the character already)

I never saw BiS geared people ninjaing items in dungeons because frankly they didnt even do them anymore on those characters... and even if they did the same rules would have applied to them which is the need/greed-system and in that system it is possible to need on items you dont need.

Ninjalooting is pretty much only a thing in 5 mans and badly organized raidpugs. How big of a problem is it really?

True, if you ninjaloot my blue gear from BRD I'll be pissed, and I'll probably put you on my personal blacklist. Might throw out a comment in /1 that 99.9% of people will ignore. I'll tell you who probably won't ignore it though, my friends and possibly my guild.

So sure, you get away with it a couple of times. It certainly won't be that nobody plays with you anymore. There will however be groups that exclude you. So a first time offense may not do much, but if you repeat thats an oil stain that spreads, and slowly eats way at your player experience.

As a general rule, it's just not worth the hassle to ninja stuff =/

[Jabakaga]

A lot of misinformation going on in here, loot trading won't be in 5 man dungeons. So the whining about party of 3 friends needing on everything in 5man is incorrect.

[vashe9]

it was a sure thing they will not hire thousands of GM like in vanilla times, business my friends

It's more common sense than business in this case let's be honest

[Veggie50]

It's more common sense than business in this case let's be honest

Funny how often those two things go hand in hand, isn't it?

[vashe9]

Let me be clear here: I wanted classic but this was the line for me. The first fail was when they made classic client from a Legion client...

Stripped-Legion Classic client (at the lowest graphic) runs at 5 fps on my old notebook.
On private servers real Classic client runs at 60 fps...

Get the fock out of here!

Lol are you serious ? Then play on private servers. We should use totally outdated technologies that don't impact the core game because... "your pc sucks" ? Just by a new one ffs, if wow is 5 fps on your laptop then it's not meant for gaming

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Funny how often those two things go hand in hand, isn't it?

Not really, adding more "DLC" in the webshop is good for the business but not really for the whole game.
More generally, it if was the case, capitalist societies would be perfect and we're far from it

[The Stormbringer]

This is a really shitty move by Blizzard. All it will do is punish people who don't know what they're doing. Your entire server will hate you and call you a ninja just because you didn't know any better, how are you supposed to learn from that? We need to be able to trade items we looted by mistake by opening tickets, anything else is unacceptable.

It won't be an issue, since you'll have a two-hour trade window. As long as someone brings it up, you can be like, "Oh, sorry. How does it work? I'm new, I don't really know what I'm doing." and things will be fine and dandy.

[Echocho]

It won't be an issue, since you'll have a two-hour trade window. As long as someone brings it up, you can be like, "Oh, sorry. How does it work? I'm new, I don't really know what I'm doing." and things will be fine and dandy.

No we'll have a zero hour trade window and they won't respond to loot related tickets. The trading is only enabled in raids, if you make a mistake in a dungeon you'll be branded a ninja.

[The Stormbringer]

No we'll have a zero hour trade window and they won't respond to loot related tickets. The trading is only enabled in raids, if you make a mistake in a dungeon you'll be branded a ninja.

I was referring to raids, not dungeons. If you do it in dungeons, it's less impactful, and people are more likely to be forgiving if you explain that it was a mistake. Especially if you're willing to offer gold in return, or offer to run the dungeon again and waive any other rewards to give them a second chance.

[Maudib]

No we'll have a zero hour trade window and they won't respond to loot related tickets. The trading is only enabled in raids, if you make a mistake in a dungeon you'll be branded a ninja.

It is the most true to actual Vanilla. The alternative is allow people to abuse the 2 hour trade option and multi-role on loot for their guildies.

No loot trade in dungeons opens up a very small window for mistakes, while loot trading opens pandora's box for abuse.

It generally takes several Ninja loots to get your brand on... so ethier a person's accidental need on something will be forgotten... or their multiple "mistaken" needs will root them out for what they are.

Man the game sure has changed a lot... it went from if someone "ninja's" a piece of loot from a dungeon there is hell to pay, to being showered with so much loot no one cares.

Can't wait for Classic!

[Sarnaxxx]

Then your server was crap. It did matter, I remember specifically avoiding known ninja looters. If you got called out in trade chat too many times, you were screwed. You were resigned to grouping with your guild, and if they had any sense they would kick you and you were double screwed. It rarely happened on purpose, the deterrent was real.

I agree 100%. Your reputation was very important back in Vanilla and I believe if they stick to what they've said so far (Blizzard) -- it will matter once again!