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  1. #1

    Guilds who overtime, Recruitment and Community Perception

    Hi

    I made this topic and registed for the first time as I have some very disheartened guildies and I kind of want the communities view on this

    This tier we've seen a lot of overtime from guilds, such as Alterac DEviants CyaThursday and more notably Group Therapy woh went against their idea of never raiding more than 2 days a week
    None of this has affected me and my guild until recently. I cannot post links but we try to rival with a guild on our realm named Origin - i cant post videos 4 some reason but the twitch is NuuPlays as u can see 8 and half hour raids!! and who last week raided 36 hours and consistently do this despite wowprogress saying they raid:

    Raiding days:
    Wednesday 19:45 - 23:00
    Thursday 19:45 - 23:00
    Monday 19:45 - 23:00


    My guildies (we arent close on Jaina but r trying!) are a little saddened as we had someone apply to us who said that our rank was bad and will apply to this otrher guild. We were also said as the other guild on the realam raided 5 days despite only saying 4 for Jaina

    I am curious what the communities perception of overtiming is - will it affect recruitment for us if we continue eto stick to our raid times? I know there are guilds like Scrub Busters who stick to their raiding hours but do we really need to start to Overtime in other to keep a rank and attract players?

    sry for the post haven't seen this before

  2. #2
    Raiding more than your stated hours is going to drive more players away than anything unless it significantly jumps your ranks (it won't if you're still not close to Jaina). At this point adding more raid hours without stating that in your recruitment will do nothing but upset people who didn't sign up for that. Don't do it. If you're having trouble competing change your approach, change how you prep for bosses, change your recruitment, change how you set up strats or expand your raid hours (state this). Raiding overtime is the worst thing you can do as it will just increase your raider turnover.

    Obviously guilds tend to add hours when they're close to a final boss kill to just push it over the line and get it over with (though going from sub 10 hours to 36 hours is fucking insane) but I don't think anyone has a problem with this. It's usually just something that happens if people can swing it.

    I understand that the overtime police thing is funny and it's made a lot more people in the community aware of guilds who do raid overtime but we're nearly 3 months into the tier, if guilds are raiding double their hours for 3 months people are going to quit that guild and it will either stop raiding overtime or crumble.
    Last edited by Octa; 2019-04-14 at 10:52 AM.
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  3. #3
    Warchief
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Pretty much every single guild raids more than they advertise. Sometimes its down to players wanting to push a bit more for a kill, othertimes its just the guild adding another day here and there. Alot of guilds have extra days for alt raids and such that they use for progress etc. My guild is a 3 day a week, but we actually raided 5 days in the last week of famed to kill jaina (Which we didn't do) also, there are times when people are away and can't raid on designated raid days, so the guild votes to switch it to another day instead whilst still maintaining 3 days a week, I suspect this happens alot also.

    But yeah generally speaking you should take advertised raid times with a very big pinch of salt.

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Russia
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    You should stick to the schedule and attract players actually interested in less raid days. Better than turning into revolving door guild with high burnout rate.

    Shoutout to
    twitter.com/OvertimePolice
    twitter.com/OvertimeStasiEU

  5. #5
    Your guild seems to be in the same boat as us, but I have taken steps to identify how to make performs better.

    Firstly, we are a 3 night raid guild. strictly 3 nights. Although we do not compete for the ladder, having a bad ranking does affect the quality of potential recruits.

    So we have no choice but to get better and more efficient, since we only raid 3 nights. Unlike other guilds on my server, we do not want to add extra nights of raids or extend raiding nights hours. So what is the solution?

    The solution is simply become better, kill bosses with less tries, waste less time.

    How to go about it:
    prepare the raids better > everyone should be watching videos.
    Pay extra attention during normal and heroic so that in mythic we do not discover mecanics that exist already.
    Identify where in the raid things fall appart. I noticed in my raid that we have 2 weaknesses. Tank synergy is essential, one tank made us lose 10 to 15 pulls on some bosses during progress. It is not really an issue until you realise that instead of killing bosses on thursday (our 2nd night) we killed them on monday (3rd night), resulting in guilds that raid more nights or that are more efficient push us down the ladder: this has a direct consequence to attracting good players. Similarly we have identified issues in a couple of dps that need to be addressed in order to shave off some unecessary extra pulls...

    Hope this helps.

  6. #6
    Overtiming is disgusting and should absolutely be abolished. We should have some sort of public website to keep track of such guild and make sure they don't get away with it!!!

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer City Pop's Avatar
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    Unless you're wiping at a low percent and the guild really wants to push for a kill, then you should stick to a strict schedule.

  8. #8
    Eh, if a guild decides to make their raid time a guideline and not a rule, it's their right to do so. If 20 people can come together and find extra time, good for them.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord dacoolist's Avatar
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    Austin TX
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    As a mercenary - I see a lot of guilds having this issue, and it is something I run into a lot.

    Like others have stated, most guilds raid more than they let on - but also: you will hit a skill wall eventually.

    Pugging is a huge part of the game, it's something I have done since Wrath - and it's something to think about when you're trying to get stuff done if you don't have the people online for it..

    Don't give up, you'll get there

  10. #10
    Wish we overtime raided. Would't lose to dribbling degenerates like walkthrough and french guilds

    edit: and germans
    Last edited by Sakurako; 2019-04-14 at 03:41 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakurako View Post
    Wish we overtime raided. Would't lose to dribbling degenerates like walkthrough and french guilds

    edit: and germans
    Found the racist!

  12. #12
    If it's agreed upon by the raiders.... overtime raiding is seriously a non-issue.

    Even small guilds will push for extra time if they're close to a kill.

    Even adding extra days or raid hours is completely acceptable if the raiders agree. Kicking someone cause they can't agree to that would be bad though.

  13. #13
    I don't think it will affect your recruitment much. A lot of people like to stick to their raid times because it allows them to plan accordingly.

    And honestly, the people who do care (aka raid a lot), probably don't want to join a guild that did not kill Jaina yet.
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  14. #14
    Im not currently playing WoW, but my guild was a bit like this. We were a day 2 raiding guild (top 20 Draenor EU for G'Huun Mythic). But when kills came close we sometimes extended or did an extra raid night.

    The thing was, it was not a "do it or be kicked" scenario. GM would always ask before just extending a raid, and sometimes people couldn't. Equally with extra raid nights, we'd have them on the calendar, and if we got a good enough team to try to do some progress we would raid. If not, no raid.

  15. #15
    believe it or not some random rank 300 guild deciding to overtime raid has nothing to do with higher up guilds doing more overtime, nor has anything to do with your own success as a guild, this whole post is a big shaking my smh

  16. #16
    I don't get what you guys are discussing here, honestly....

    There's just two types of raiders: ones that tend to be tryharding more in the intent to progress faster, and those who like to keep it casual and don't mind the longer time it takes to complete a raid. This means that the guilds are also split into hardcore and softcore. If youre a softcore guild then you shouldn't be surprised that tryhard players are avoiding you. Your actual problem: you try to target the tryhard players (who are usually better skill-wise) for your softcore guild, and end up being disappointed that they choose a hardcore guild over you.

    And to those who say hardcore guilds should be tracked and punished in any way - first of all, who the hell are you to determine how much of my time, or any other person's time, should be invested in raiding? And secondly, your comments/proposals are absurd, and are in complete contradiction of how the whole world is functioning, not just WoW.

  17. #17
    Not sure what you expect to hear. Everyone knows by now that there are shittons of guilds who pretty much blatantly lie when it comes to their advertised raid times. personally I think it's pretty pathetic but well that's not changing anything.

  18. #18
    If the RL/GM wants to overtime and everybody wants to overtime, why shouldn't them?

    The entire "overtime police" thing is stupid, everybody raids whatever hours they want if 20 people are available and i'm pretty sure 90% of the wow population pushing for better world rankings (even if that rankings are not good) would overtime if they where able to; more so if they are close to a kill.

    Anyone complaining about overtime is just envious about other people doing what they can't.

    As for recruitment i don't think it matters. People entering in certain guilds do know if they will or won't overtime, almost any guild has open streams everytime. Schedule in wowprogress is most times orientative.
    Last edited by Baleful; 2019-04-15 at 01:46 PM.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    4,255
    It's a game, play how you want. If people are up for it, well it's their business.

    The guild I ran never did OT. We had a few days over the 13 years I was in it where we moved days around because of bad scheduling (the end of November with Thanksgiving and Blizzcon usually being the culprits). Outside of that the rare 10-15 minutes where people stayed for 1-2 extra pulls. The only time we ever truly did OT was when we flopped pretty hard doing Archimonde Heroic the first week he was out, and people wanted to raid a couple extra days to ensure we killed him. This seemed reasonable considering Heroic had flexible raid sizes so nobody felt that they needed to come. We ended up not killing it because Heroic Archimonde was way harder with less people, even though we had better players in the raid.

    If your guilds okay with it, who cares. It does however run a few risks though. People might get pissed if you kill bosses without them because they don't want to raid an extra hour or two, or an extra day. The opposite scenario can arise as well, where those people are pretty mandatory and they feel like they are letting the other 17-19 people down by not clicking yes to that final ready check. Being disingenuous with raid times can cause people to be annoyed and/or get burned out from the game.

    Best not to worry about what other guilds do. Lots of these guilds do end up exploding and reforming at one point or another.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CursePurgePlus View Post
    Hi

    I made this topic and registed for the first time as I have some very disheartened guildies and I kind of want the communities view on this

    This tier we've seen a lot of overtime from guilds, such as Alterac DEviants CyaThursday and more notably Group Therapy woh went against their idea of never raiding more than 2 days a week
    None of this has affected me and my guild until recently. I cannot post links but we try to rival with a guild on our realm named Origin - i cant post videos 4 some reason but the twitch is NuuPlays as u can see 8 and half hour raids!! and who last week raided 36 hours and consistently do this despite wowprogress saying they raid:

    Raiding days:
    Wednesday 19:45 - 23:00
    Thursday 19:45 - 23:00
    Monday 19:45 - 23:00


    My guildies (we arent close on Jaina but r trying!) are a little saddened as we had someone apply to us who said that our rank was bad and will apply to this otrher guild. We were also said as the other guild on the realam raided 5 days despite only saying 4 for Jaina

    I am curious what the communities perception of overtiming is - will it affect recruitment for us if we continue eto stick to our raid times? I know there are guilds like Scrub Busters who stick to their raiding hours but do we really need to start to Overtime in other to keep a rank and attract players?

    sry for the post haven't seen this before
    hm i would say ... it depends. one of best memories i have of raiding is when in first week of SoO mythic (or was it still just hc back then cant remmeber) 10 man all of our raiders had free time all week so we changed our schedule from 2 nights a week to 6 nights - just for this week - but it wasnt like pre planned only after each raid night we made a quick survey who can be there next day and we went 6 days stright was a lot of fun . but i guess just because it was week one with relatively easy early bosses .

    but i would never do overtime on hard progress bosses - this is just demoralising most of time

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