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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Blizzard said they are adding a system like raider.io to be ingame, think its coming with 8.2
    Looks like they want to do something like this but no plans as of yet. Updated main post with source I was able to find.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    Sounds good to me. There is an in-game ranking system for PVP, why not one for PVE. It is, of course, totally optional to use. A person could just bring whoever they want to to a group and disregard a persons rating.
    Yeah, could even go as far to have Unrated and Rated M+ LFG ques just like for PvP. That way "non-elite" players may not feel as pressured to compete in the rated M+

  3. #23
    High Overlord Starry Sidekick's Avatar
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    I think raider IO is a symptom a a greater problem. There are different groups of people running mythic+, and they all want different things:


    1. Hardcores pushing top keystones
    2. Players who have the content on farm and just want a painless run
    2. Undergeared but experienced players who deserve to be differentiated from a new player with the same ilvl
    3. Overgeared but terrible players who slip past the current ilvl system
    4. Newer players willing to learn and make mistakes


    Now I think if a grading system were to be put into the game by default it would need to measure all these things to account for that:


    1. Skill - Revamped Proving Grounds Medal + Time Spent Playing Spec + Total Ahead of The Curve Achievements
    2. Content Experience - Highest Keystone Completed For Queued Dungeon + Total Dungeons/Raids Cleared in Current Season (resets every cycle)
    3. Gear - iLevel
    4. Conduct - Total Vote Kicks + Total Desertions + Total Commendations (a new overwatch-like system) + Totals Successful Mentor Runs


    If such a system were to be as thorough as described, it would allow a lot more casual Mythic+ runs to be (semi)automatically matched by a LFG type system fairly consistently, and provide more information to those who want to manually put a team together with a more comprehensive group finder.


    - New/casual players would be matched with other new players who are willing to learn the content together without messing up higher keystones for others
    - Rude or flaky players would have longer queue times and be incentivized to be nicer, and bad players wouldn’t be able to hide behind gear to save them
    - Skilled players could guarantee a run with other good, well mannered players
    - People who have run and know the content already would only be paired with those who also have, and vice versa


    PLUS you could have an option to queue as a “mentor”, which would pair you with a group less experienced than you in exchange for a boosted rewards with the hope that you manage to guide the more inexperienced group to victory.
    Last edited by Starry Sidekick; 2019-04-16 at 12:42 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by CleanSlate View Post
    Discussion Point
    My question here is would it make sense to implement a similar rating system for Mythic Plus as there is for PvP? We all view ourselves as "being great" at the game but at the end of the day you can't truly know if there is no system to measure your success. The simplest of course is completing a key in time but how can you "show" others in the PuG community your experience? I know I would enjoy grinding my in game Mythic Plus rank vs a score from an external source since well... a certain sense of accomplishment comes with it. For the sake of discussion, assume no special transmogs or mounts would be tied to an in game Mythic Plus rating system.
    The only way to "show bunch of randoms that you're good at M+" is to have a rank that is based on running M+
    A rank based on something else ("being good that the game") would make no sense and would most likely be abused.

    You have to remember that the "PuG community" is based on hierarchy pecking order.
    Blizzard just needs to get off their asses and implement a M+ scoring system into the default UI. The fact that they created a competitive eSport system without adding it says how well they understand online communities (spoiler: not very well at all). Giving a third party (raider.io) the power to control inclusion/exclusion in your game is bafflingly incompetent.

    You can't have it any other way, because... "random stranger PuG community".
    Last edited by Greyscale; 2019-04-16 at 05:16 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkynhalvos View Post
    Ah, the old IO stuff.

    The system that is more unreliable than gearscore or ilvl ever was because it does not factor ALL runs, only a few based off of some ridiculous leaderboard that has NO PLACE outside organized competitions such as the MDI.
    lol

    why would anyone give a shit if you had completed a +3 or something? That's the only part that's restricted by the "leaderboard" which is insanely long AND validates from the server of anyone in the group so if you have someone from a dead server congrats here's your free 30 (wow) io score for doing a 3 in time.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    The only way to "show bunch of randoms that you're good at M+" is to have a rank that is based on running M+
    A rank based on something else ("being good that the game") would make no sense and would most likely be abused.

    You have to remember that the "PuG community" is based on hierarchy pecking order.
    Blizzard just needs to get off their asses and implement a M+ scoring system into the default UI. The fact that they created a competitive eSport system without adding it says how well they understand online communities (spoiler: not very well at all). Giving a third party (raider.io) the power to control inclusion/exclusion in your game is bafflingly incompetent.

    You can't have it any other way, because... "random stranger PuG community".
    I think we are saying the same thing? I'm adovocating for a system in game to rank your m+ experience based on your m+ progression. The PvP bit is simply a potential format to implement the system rather than your PvP'ing having anything to do with your totally separate m+ rank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry Sidekick View Post
    I think raider IO is a symptom a a greater problem. There are different groups of people running mythic+, and they all want different things:


    1. Hardcores pushing top keystones
    2. Players who have the content on farm and just want a painless run
    2. Undergeared but experienced players who deserve to be differentiated from a new player with the same ilvl
    3. Overgeared but terrible players who slip past the current ilvl system
    4. Newer players willing to learn and make mistakes


    Now I think if a grading system were to be put into the game by default it would need to measure all these things to account for that:


    1. Skill - Revamped Proving Grounds Medal + Time Spent Playing Spec + Total Ahead of The Curve Achievements
    2. Content Experience - Highest Keystone Completed For Queued Dungeon + Total Dungeons/Raids Cleared in Current Season (resets every cycle)
    3. Gear - iLevel
    4. Conduct - Total Vote Kicks + Total Desertions + Total Commendations (a new overwatch-like system) + Totals Successful Mentor Runs


    If such a system were to be as thorough as described, it would allow a lot more casual Mythic+ runs to be (semi)automatically matched by a LFG type system fairly consistently, and provide more information to those who want to manually put a team together with a more comprehensive group finder.


    - New/casual players would be matched with other new players who are willing to learn the content together without messing up higher keystones for others
    - Rude or flaky players would have longer queue times and be incentivized to be nicer, and bad players wouldn’t be able to hide behind gear to save them
    - Skilled players could guarantee a run with other good, well mannered players
    - People who have run and know the content already would only be paired with those who also have, and vice versa


    PLUS you could have an option to queue as a “mentor”, which would pair you with a group less experienced than you in exchange for a boosted rewards with the hope that you manage to guide the more inexperienced group to victory.
    This makes me think that having Ranked M+ be separate from Non-ranked runs might be a good idea. Again using PvP as the example you can do casual non-ranked PvP or if you are into pushing do ranked PvP.

    This could address your very valid points keeping the hardcore pushers (or their alts) segregated from the more casual base or those who are learning and thus potentially keeping toxicity at bay.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Blizzard said they are adding a system like raider.io to be ingame, think its coming with 8.2
    Just wanted to say don't spread misinformation. They never said it's a for sure thing and was just discussion (which means nothing is even made yet).

    Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=291155/...m-sloot-stream



    OT: The issue with the community is that they want an easy carry with absolutely no issues whatsoever, so they want you to have 1500+ for a 10, along with 410 iLvl. The main issue is that there's no way for people at like 800-900 and 385 iLvl (the PERFECT candidate to do 10s right now) to get in. Hell even iLvl 395 people would be denied because of how rabid the community is. They're done with 8s and 9s, they need 10s to progress their IO/iLvl now. Regardless if Blizzard makes a system or not, people WILL ALWAYS continue to be shitheads like this. If you didn't make it the first week or two, you're not making it without some extreme luck or help from friends/guildies. Raiding is the same way: No AOTC? You're not getting in 99% of Heroic pugs by Week 4.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2019-04-16 at 12:05 PM.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  8. #28
    On the one side, I like to not judge a player until I've seen them. I've been on the other side of the fence, where I know for the level I'm going for (usually between +5 - +10 tbh) that I'm good, but my Ilvl / score may not be high enough because IRL has been busy, or crazy high expectations of other players, it can take a bit of getting into it, and I hate the mentality it breeds. Players are so much more then a number. And if you're coming into a patch late sometimes it can take a lot of grinding to get up there.

    On the other hand and almost contradictory, I like the fact you have to prove yourself by doing said grinding or shopping around building up your score from the bottom. And I understand that when you've worked hard to push a key, and somebody is bad and just leaves early or something, you dont wanna risk inviting somebody rap. And to be honest my experience so far has shown that below +7 seems to be more about Ilvl then raider score. And it definitely separates the wheat and all that. How picky you are is up to you. I for one will often pick somebody for their class (I like to have 5 unique classes if I can), and as long as Ilvl meets the minimum requirement im happy. I've started using raider.io just to make sure the score isn't crazy low. I much preferred the days of recognising a players name in LFM channel, remembering it being a pleasant experience and inviting them because of that, but that doesn't really work now because of crossrealm etc its extremely rare you come across the same person twice.

    I'd be comfortable with Blizzard implementing something. As long as it enables people feeling hardcore to be hardcore, and not punish well performing casuals too much, because we are out there. I don't see this has a too negative step, but it does make me a little uneasy, but I definitely fall into casual category.

  9. #29
    Thank you for reminding me why i don't do those anymore thank god for welfare epic gear ilvl 394 withtout the hassle of Mythic+ ftw!
    Last edited by Lurker1; 2019-04-16 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CleanSlate View Post
    "Blizzard's plan about a scoring system is to fix some issues from community-driven ones, like having affixes matter and other contextual information added to it."
    If they (finally) do a ranked solo queue for M+, I'd fall out of my chair first and applaud shockingly after.

    (And then ask them about doing the same for BGs. Although after the resounding success of the queue for M+ they will perhaps figure it out themselves.)

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    Thank you for reminding me why i don't do those anymore thank god for welfare gear ilvl 394 withtout the hassle of Mythic+ ftw!
    Exactly my thoughts, everytime i read a thread like this i think to myself thank goodness i don't have to deal with this shit.

  12. #32
    Raiding is no longer the end game only activity, you guys need to get used to that.
    I think that the majority of the player base is formed by players that have been playing this game for a long time, players that are older now, have demanding jobs, kids and many other responsibilities but still want to enjoy the game so they search for a more casual alternative to raiding, M+.

    Atleast thats the conclusion i came to, I'm no longer willing to be forced to plan my evenings according to raiding days or have to join voice chat with a bunch of people for 3-4 hours straight. M+ is the end game content with the perfect flexibility for me and the type of players mentioned above.

    OT: A built in Rio alternative would be nice , I don't really have an issue with Rio's current state either, I'm at 1550 rio and i'm having fun pugging whenever i'm in moon or got some time for a run or 2.

  13. #33
    Just remove the time limit. If someone need 10 hours to get 400 gear let them. Choose what key you want to do and its fine... But what do i know, I never done a key mythic because I dont do timed events.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Exactly my thoughts, everytime i read a thread like this i think to myself thank goodness i don't have to deal with this shit.
    Yeah same here man happy i can get high ilvl gear just differently now via world quests events and some world bosses and warfront quest ftw!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Just remove the time limit. If someone need 10 hours to get 400 gear let them. Choose what key you want to do and its fine... But what do i know, I never done a key mythic because I dont do timed events.
    Same here hated doing timed events in legion decided to not do it in BFA happy i can still get good gear alone ftw!

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    Yeah same here man happy i can get high ilvl gear just differently now via world quests events and some world bosses and warfront quest ftw!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Same here hated doing timed events in legion decided to not do it in BFA happy i can still get good gear alone ftw!
    My toons are around 392-5, of cause it would be nice with higher but when not raiding or doing mythic+ its pretty decent anyway.
    No way I want the toxic mythic+ (I quit playing diablo3 for the same reason, timed stuff)

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    My toons are around 392-5, of cause it would be nice with higher but when not raiding or doing mythic+ its pretty decent anyway.
    No way I want the toxic mythic+ (I quit playing diablo3 for the same reason, timed stuff)
    YEAH and honestly until i started stacking traits mob ilvl scaleing sucked.there is isnt a point to push your ilvl so fast anyways.I feel pretty op at this ilvl to be honest but its mostly do to traits stacking on my toons.

  17. #37
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Just wanted to say don't spread misinformation. They never said it's a for sure thing and was just discussion (which means nothing is even made yet).

    Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=291155/...m-sloot-stream



    OT: The issue with the community is that they want an easy carry with absolutely no issues whatsoever, so they want you to have 1500+ for a 10, along with 410 iLvl. The main issue is that there's no way for people at like 800-900 and 385 iLvl (the PERFECT candidate to do 10s right now) to get in. Hell even iLvl 395 people would be denied because of how rabid the community is. They're done with 8s and 9s, they need 10s to progress their IO/iLvl now. Regardless if Blizzard makes a system or not, people WILL ALWAYS continue to be shitheads like this. If you didn't make it the first week or two, you're not making it without some extreme luck or help from friends/guildies. Raiding is the same way: No AOTC? You're not getting in 99% of Heroic pugs by Week 4.
    Must have been tired and missread it then, shame :/

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post

    OT: The issue with the community is that they want an easy carry with absolutely no issues whatsoever, so they want you to have 1500+ for a 10, along with 410 iLvl. The main issue is that there's no way for people at like 800-900 and 385 iLvl (the PERFECT candidate to do 10s right now) to get in. Hell even iLvl 395 people would be denied because of how rabid the community is. They're done with 8s and 9s, they need 10s to progress their IO/iLvl now. Regardless if Blizzard makes a system or not, people WILL ALWAYS continue to be shitheads like this. If you didn't make it the first week or two, you're not making it without some extreme luck or help from friends/guildies. Raiding is the same way: No AOTC? You're not getting in 99% of Heroic pugs by Week 4.
    This is exactly what I want in next expansion or next big patch , rated pve system or simply more ways to progress content for the gs and experience you manage to achieve , but in a better way than now.


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