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  1. #21
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    There are no dead things available, it was all turned to dust. If the nutrients stayed available, sure, but at least the scavangers will have nothing to feast on when everything just crumbled.
    Oh right, they did all turn to dust, huh? Well, that doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing left in the remains. Plants are known to use ashes as a form of fertilizer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by avx81 View Post
    How do people know or assume if Thanos just double the resources of a planet that it would just work out? And you would eventually be in the same place years later just like nuking half the population.

    Increased resources requires more space and more time to manage those resources. Imagine if he doubled the size of farms. Imagine if he doubled the quantity of chicken, cattle, pigs and other animals we consume (those greenhouse gases bro). It would be toxic for the planet and the planets survival in general. Perhaps he is also concerned with the survival of the planet itself as doubling resources on the planet could lead to its destruction.

    Devils advocate:
    Doubling the resources on a planet would dry up the planet. Doubling the amount of land animals we consume would destroy our ozone layer and leave our planet looking something like Titan.
    Or he could, y'know, double the size of the planet too, as well as all the planets and the ozone layer and so on. He's got literal infinite power, he can do whatever he wants.

    Alternatively, he could just copy the planet and all the things on it, and then just split the people and animals across them 50/50.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    I've never been big into marvel movies, so when I realized how flawed his motives are, I lost all interest. If he really does care for species as a whole and his intentions are to better the quality of life for everyone, why couldn't he just snap his fingers and create more resources? There's an infinite amount of options once he contained all 6 stones, but he still had this barbaric thought that the only solution was for half the population to die... like what?
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  3. #23
    Didn't he originally do it because he wanted to get into Lady Deaths pants?

    Also movie-verse wise, he was traumatised because of how his home world ended up getting destroyed due to overpopulation. No reason why he gets tunnel vision in thinking how to stop it happening again.
    RETH

  4. #24
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Thanos wasn't trying to produce a permanent solution. He's trying to justify his own personal genocide of his own planet, by showing that he wasn't wrong, and it really does make things better.

    He's nuts. That's the point.
    Last edited by Endus; 2019-04-15 at 09:13 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Memnok View Post
    In the MCU Thanos wiped out half the population of the universe supposedly because resources are finite and overpopulation is a big problem. His solution would help for a bit, but the same issue would occur again in the future "too many mouths to feed". With the power of the Infinity gems wouldn't a better solution have been just to make resources infinite then everyone would love him. Or am I just oversimplifying this.
    They wanted to keep his arc/story exactly the same as it is in the comics but change is motivations completely which is why you get this disjointed mess. It was entertaining and believable during the movie but It falls apart if try to think too much about it..
    One of the problem with what Thanos does in the MCU as you pointed out is just delaying the inevitable and someone who is as powerful as him and smart enough to plan a scheme to collect all the gems would have realized it. THE BIGGEST problem with what happens in the movie is with all the stones in his infinity glove he could have done literally whatever he wanted with the universe so he could have done so many other things then just killing half the universe, one of them being your example which is to make resource infinite. Some more out of the box but totally possible options could be lowering the fertility of all sentient races in the universe, making the whole universe share his vision against overpopulation so each world would take political/social action naturally, or simply lowering the resource/energy intake required of each sentient being to near zero.. and many more.

    So you are totally right that MCU Thanos with a full infinity gauntlet could/would/should have done so many other things based on his motivation.

  6. #26
    But we don't know what doubling the size of a planet wont eventually lead to more problems. Perhaps doubling the size/mass/density of a planet would increase the gravity that is beyond what the current life forms there can handle. Creating a second copy of every planet could be a mistake also because eventually he would have to make a 3rd copy of every planet.. and a 4th copy.. and a 5th copy.. and so on. Same would apply for if he had to create an alternate universe for life. Eventually he may have to create another alternate universe. We also don't know that the power of the stones at least in the MCU version would allow him to just keep creating alternate universes. Remember he practically destroyed the gauntlet at the end of Infinity War.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by avx81 View Post
    But we don't know what doubling the size of a planet wont eventually lead to more problems. Perhaps doubling the size/mass/density of a planet would increase the gravity that is beyond what the current life forms there can handle. Creating a second copy of every planet could be a mistake also because eventually he would have to make a 3rd copy of every planet.. and a 4th copy.. and a 5th copy.. and so on. Same would apply for if he had to create an alternate universe for life. Eventually he may have to create another alternate universe. We also don't know that the power of the stones at least in the MCU version would allow him to just keep creating alternate universes. Remember he practically destroyed the gauntlet at the end of Infinity War.
    He had all six stones.
    Problems are not a factor.

  8. #28
    Yeah, Thanos' plan is flawed and illogical. Darkseid has a better plan, even if it requires an unspecified doohickey, his plot at least includes becoming God-like by removing free will and ruling as he sees fit. Thanos' plot is righteously bogus and includes vacationing after doing what he believes was a permanent solution. It's so lazy, it's like, he did so much for so little on the grand scheme of things.

    "Ok... I'm done, ah... time to put on my speedos and relax, the universe is in my debt." When it has been mentioned, in 30 years or so the same issue will just come up again. Then what?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Not really. Thanos argument is actually pretty common among a lot of highly-educated academic journalists. When discussion comes up about "what do we do about poverty?" or "what do we do about automation displacing people?" or "what do we do about dumb people?" there is a very common response that the answer is to "thin the heard". Granted the argument isn't for random genocide, but the argument is still for genocide, by people who are very highly educated.

    The idea that smart people can have not-so-smart ideas isn't unrealistic at all.
    That isn't true and doesn't argue the issue. We don't even have an agreed scientific definition for what overpopulation even is let alone solutions for it. There aren't any legitimate scientists saying we need genocide to stop us from going extinct. That is Thanos' argument, that overpopulation leads to such struggle for resources that your race and planet will be destroyed as a result. That is not what our scientists believe or argue because that is just really stupid. Even neo malthusians didn't believe we would go extinct as a result of starvation or conflict for resources, they believed that population control would be more humane than letting the eventual excess populations starve. The belief is that we would end up with a maxed out population that lets excess offspring die off because there isn't enough food but our population would either remain constant or drop back down as it did in the past when similar things happened on a smaller scale.

    Now let's put that back into context. Thanos is supposed to be much more intelligent than humans. He has gathered cosmic level tools that would make him omnipotent. Would any of that make sense in his position either way? Fuck no. He only did what he did because he's the big bad guy and it needed to be forced in narratively that he is a massive evil threat that killed half the universe. He could and should have thought of several other ways to use his power to solve the supposed altruistic goal of his. A five year old could come up with a better solution than what he came up with. It's ridiculous to think his actions make sense.

  10. #30
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    Now let's put that back into context. Thanos is supposed to be much more intelligent than humans. He has gathered cosmic level tools that would make him omnipotent. Would any of that make sense in his position either way? Fuck no. He only did what he did because he's the big bad guy and it needed to be forced in narratively that he is a massive evil threat that killed half the universe. He could and should have thought of several other ways to use his power to solve the supposed altruistic goal of his. A five year old could come up with a better solution than what he came up with. It's ridiculous to think his actions make sense.
    Again, why do you think his actions are meant to make sense?

    He's the Mad Titan. He's whackadoodle nutso. He genocided his own planet to try and prove a point. He's arrogant and unwilling to consider that his argument might be flawed, because no one who contests it can stand against him, so why would he listen to any of them?

    Really smart people do really dumb things all the time. Even when they're not crazy. Which I'll say again, Thanos is.

  11. #31
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    That isn't true and doesn't argue the issue.
    Yes, it is. I have read their articles. I have books with their articles in them.

    We don't even have an agreed scientific definition for what overpopulation even is let alone solutions for it.
    Meaningless anti-science garbage. Lacking a consensus doesn't mean some people don't propose extreme solutions.

    There aren't any legitimate scientists saying we need genocide to stop us from going extinct.
    I said academics, not scientists. I couldn't even begin to list the various degrees these folks have.

    That is Thanos' argument, that overpopulation leads to such struggle for resources that your race and planet will be destroyed as a result. That is not what our scientists believe or argue because that is just really stupid.
    Your denial of reality doesn't change reality. There are academics who make this argument. Again, I've read their works.

    Even neo malthusians didn't believe we would go extinct as a result of starvation or conflict for resources, they believed that population control would be more humane than letting the eventual excess populations starve. The belief is that we would end up with a maxed out population that lets excess offspring die off because there isn't enough food but our population would either remain constant or drop back down as it did in the past when similar things happened on a smaller scale.
    I have no idea what that has to do with anything at all.

    The rest of your post is just whiny bitching. It's a fucking movie, based off a fucking comic book. Get over yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
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    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  12. #32
    It's almost like he's called the "Mad Titan" for a reason.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Again, why do you think his actions are meant to make sense?

    He's the Mad Titan. He's whackadoodle nutso. He genocided his own planet to try and prove a point. He's arrogant and unwilling to consider that his argument might be flawed, because no one who contests it can stand against him, so why would he listen to any of them?

    Really smart people do really dumb things all the time. Even when they're not crazy. Which I'll say again, Thanos is.
    As I already said he isn't really the mad titan in the movies. He is portrayed as being completely sane, lucid, and well adjusted. The movie treats him like his motivations are valid and his plan makes sense...that it is only wrong because it is immoral and goes too far and not because it is really stupid and illogical. He is not treated as if he is insane at all. If he was actually just insane, sure, that could allow his character to make more sense and not be poorly written but that would detract from the entire reason people think he is a compelling villain so it is a lose/lose situation.

    In the comics, yes, he is actually insane and it is done the right way. He is obsessed with bloodshed and conquest and loves death. In the movies he is nothing like that.

  14. #34
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    As I already said he isn't really the mad titan in the movies. He is portrayed as being completely sane, lucid, and well adjusted.
    He wants. To kill. Half of all living things.
    He threw his daughter off a cliff to gain power.

    He's completely insane. That he talks in a relatively calm voice does not make him more sane.

    Like, you keep pointing to how obviously-insane his plan is, and arguing that he's super sane. That's ridiculous. His plan does not make sense.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Yes, it is. I have read their articles. I have books with their articles in them.


    Meaningless anti-science garbage. Lacking a consensus doesn't mean some people don't propose extreme solutions.


    I said academics, not scientists. I couldn't even begin to list the various degrees these folks have.


    Your denial of reality doesn't change reality. There are academics who make this argument. Again, I've read their works.


    I have no idea what that has to do with anything at all.

    The rest of your post is just whiny bitching. It's a fucking movie, based off a fucking comic book. Get over yourself.
    Show me the articles then. I'm pretty sure you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I am saying that no one is arguing that our species will somehow wipe itself out due to overpopulation. Yes there are some scientists who have said it is best to cull populations and lower growth so that people in the future wont starve as much but there is no sane or reasoned scientist who believes our race would be wiped out from that as it doesn't make sense.

    That's not anti science at all. If you are actually informed on this topic you would understand that most disagreements in science about overpopulation are a result of the definition of overpopulation. To say otherwise is what is anti science.

    Clarifying academics vs scientists is useless. I don't care what an academic has to say if they are not also scientists.

    You have no idea what it has to do with anything? Maybe don't talk if you don't understand the topic, it's not difficult. The point of what I was saying should be clear. I laid out exactly what I think you misunderstood between the difference of what our scientists believe on this matter compared to what thanos believed which highlights why what he believed doesn't make sense. He believed overpopulation was inevitable and would wipe out a planet/race. That is not what our scientists believe and it is objectively stupid to believe that. What actually happens is that the excess population suffers and the argument is that we should avoid exceeding our production of resources so that some people don't starve to death, not that our race would destroy itself if we exceeded capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    He wants. To kill. Half of all living things.
    He threw his daughter off a cliff to gain power.

    He's completely insane. That he talks in a relatively calm voice does not make him more sane.

    Like, you keep pointing to how obviously-insane his plan is, and arguing that he's super sane. That's ridiculous. His plan does not make sense.
    He wants to kill them to solve a problem and it is treated as if his goals make sense but are immoral. That is not being insane at all. It is being ruthless but sane. The problem is not that he is insane but that he is stupid.

    If you are given the choice to kill a thousand people to save a million people it is not insane to choose to do that. It is ruthless but it is sane and it is for the greater good. The problem with thanos is that his plan doesn't make sense, not that he is willing to kill people for the greater good. And that is a writing issue because he is treated as if his plan DOES make sense when it doesn't. It is portrayed just like the example I just gave, as if he is willing to do something awful for the greater good rather than what it actually is which is that it is something awful and stupid and illogical.

  16. #36
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    He wants to kill them to solve a problem and it is treated as if his goals make sense but are immoral. That is not being insane at all. It is being ruthless but sane. The problem is not that he is insane but that he is stupid.

    If you are given the choice to kill a thousand people to save a million people it is not insane to choose to do that. It is ruthless but it is sane and it is for the greater good. The problem with thanos is that his plan doesn't make sense, not that he is willing to kill people for the greater good. And that is a writing issue because he is treated as if his plan DOES make sense when it doesn't. It is portrayed just like the example I just gave, as if he is willing to do something awful for the greater good rather than what it actually is which is that it is something awful and stupid and illogical.
    You're assuming he's sane, and then arguing that his plan is insane, which makes no sense because you think he's sane.

    The moment you give up the unwarranted assumption that he's sane, your argument no longer has any merit at all.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're assuming he's sane, and then arguing that his plan is insane, which makes no sense because you think he's sane.

    The moment you give up the unwarranted assumption that he's sane, your argument no longer has any merit at all.
    I'm not arguing his plan is insane, I'm arguing that his plan is stupid and doesn't make sense. He isn't mentally unstable or crazy, he is extremely mentally stable. He's just dumb and doesn't understand the topic he is so concerned with. That is the entire issue.

  18. #38
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    I'm not arguing his plan is insane, I'm arguing that his plan is stupid and doesn't make sense.
    Or, in other words, "insane".

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Or, in other words, "insane".
    I guess by your own logic you are insane since you are wrong. And as you grew up in school when you didn't understand multiplication that's because you were mentally unstable and not because you just didn't understand it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Memnok View Post
    In the MCU Thanos wiped out half the population of the universe supposedly because resources are finite and overpopulation is a big problem. His solution would help for a bit, but the same issue would occur again in the future "too many mouths to feed". With the power of the Infinity gems wouldn't a better solution have been just to make resources infinite then everyone would love him. Or am I just oversimplifying this.
    We have like 4 other threads debating if thanos was right already
    dorky made a comedic video doing a very good explaining what actually causes starvation and how his plan wouldn’t help for a single minute
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IPbtPI0wru0
    He wasn’t right, his plan at best was retarded and probably killed technological advance planets when spacecrafts started to fall from, the sky, fusion power plants suddenly lost the people in charge. Hence the mad Titan title,(better then the little Titan title amrite)

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