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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Amera View Post
    The problem with this is that classes are not simple, as we can see from examining raid logs. If everything were actually easy, you would expect people with similar gear to constantly parse within a few %. That is not the case. The delta between good and bad players remains enormous, so a lot of this is a false choice.
    and it will only grow larger.

    i agree with Preach on 1 thing which he pointed out in his video on new azerite traits. the delta between person who will be able to utilize and manage properly all procs (trinkets , azerite on 3 pieces and neck) will do incomparable dps to person who just spam basic buttons.

    the difference will be bigger then ever before.

    they went way to overboard with taids tuning. they should tune it down by at least 20-30% because what we have now dowsnt cater to anyone besides 1% of playerbase.

    even if it means that those people will clear raids much sooner - good - but then more people will actually raid.

    and what raiding scene now desperately needs is fresh blood and return of real semi-hardcore-casual guilds .

    i sometimes wonder if it wouldnt be time to return to ICC/DS style of overtime nerfs for raids - since this is when it was golden age of raiding. (ICC i mean )
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2019-04-15 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Amera View Post
    The problem with this is that classes are not simple, as we can see from examining raid logs. If everything were actually easy, you would expect people with similar gear to constantly parse within a few %. That is not the case. The delta between good and bad players remains enormous, so a lot of this is a false choice.
    That has very little to do with classes, it's almost entirely down to pressing buttons on gcd, which worse players will always be bad at and even do worse as you add more complicated raid mechanics that demand more attention - as they have done while reducing class complexity.

  3. #23
    Unless you want people just standing still and doing nothing in raids, that is inevitable.

    But even on basically pure patchwerk fights like the 1st BoA boss there is still a huge difference in performance between people with the same gear.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer crakerjack's Avatar
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    I don't like needing specific classes. I like hard mechanics that require good hand/eye coordination. It sucks though when you raid with incompetent people who can't do mechanics at do their role at the same time. I've raided with people who keyboard/click and they told me they don't strafe at all. There was this BM hunter whose dps would fall off every time mechanics came around which caused them to move. I was puzzled because BM has the best mobility in the game and they don't have any casts. I started watching them closer and realized they wouldn't do dps while doing mechanics. They'd simply turn around and run toward the mechanic while ignoring their role to dps.

    Bad players make raiding boring. I got sick of wiping when it was completely out of my control. It's like playing a solo campaign game and there being some aspect completely out of your hands that stops you from progressing.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  5. #25
    Much prefer complicated encounters, it's no contest. Classes, especially DPS, always have been and always will be fairly easy to learn if you put in a shred of effort, unless they drastically change WoW's combat system. Managing stats is boring because, let's be honest, most people let a handful of theorycrafters do that for them and then just read a list of priorities or use something like Mr. Robot.

    The way I see it, to keep things interesting they can either make varied encounters every patch or they can overhaul your class every patch. Learning encounters is much more fun, imo. I can't even imagine going back to encounters as simple as WotLK, much less something like Classic.

  6. #26
    I enjoy balanced approach between encounters, class diversity and stats. I think all should count.
    The encounters need to have "a hook", fun mechanic - but many of the encounters we've had in the last years are just too complicated. They need to de-escalate the "addon wars" and maybe break DeadlyBossMods and WeakAuras in the process.
    They should compensate by adding stat based increases and class complexity - so that high level players can enjoy the rewards of mastering a complex class mechanics, in addition to having decent pre-raid gear with correct stats and fun encounters (but not to the point of action attrition).

    That would be nice.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    SNIP
    I'm sick of the only difficulty being in raids.

    This is Ions doing. He is on record specifically saying that they wanted to frontload most of the difficulty into the encounter design. This is why Class Design has taken such a huge hit.

    When an encounter is going well it is fucking mind numbingly boring because the class gameplay is. I fell asleep during that cannon encounter in Antorus last year. I literally fell asleep. (it was on farm on Heroic) That's how bored I was.


    Raiding is only one part of the game. Why should gameplay suffer everywhere else for the sake of it.

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