Thoughts on new Essence: Conflict and Strive

[palthis]

Feign Death removes all harmful magical effects, and reduces damage taken by 99% for 1.5 sec.

Looking to see what everyone's thoughts are. I personally don't think this will gain much usage in endgame. Would rather have had the knockback bomb or circling hawk or basilisk.

And why stick the same ability to all specs? Every other class and spec gets a different PvP ability per spec! qq

[kappalol]

you can "exploit" some IK mechanics if you time correctly.

[Emerald Archer]

Feign Death removes all harmful magical effects, and reduces damage taken by 99% for 1.5 sec.

Looking to see what everyone's thoughts are. I personally don't think this will gain much usage in endgame. Would rather have had the knockback bomb or circling hawk or basilisk.

And why stick the same ability to all specs? Every other class and spec gets a different PvP ability per spec! qq

I'm going to be pretty disappointed if peoples qq and lack of knowledge gets this hunter trait changed. This is potentially an extremely strong trait, and having the utility option is very very nice. Go spend 20minutes looking up fights from the last 2 expansions, and just think about the potential mechanic cheese.

This is essentially an immunity and dispel on a 25second cd. This has insane potential.

[palthis]

This is essentially an immunity and dispel on a 25second cd. This has insane potential.

It definitely is if you are pushing world first. Look at the majority who do H clears and then think back how many times your grp wiped because of some magical debuff that the healer / spriest didn't dispel. Same way in M+.

Secondly if you compare the buffs that druids and monks are getting; as a RL I would get a boomy and kitty and frontload with rogues, mage, monks. Who needs a hunter then.. not qq'ing but to me this is the reality

[ohwell]

I'm going to be pretty disappointed if peoples qq and lack of knowledge gets this hunter trait changed. This is potentially an extremely strong trait, and having the utility option is very very nice. Go spend 20minutes looking up fights from the last 2 expansions, and just think about the potential mechanic cheese.

This is essentially an immunity and dispel on a 25second cd. This has insane potential.

The magical part is strictly dispellable debuffs which someone already can dispel(like magical as in the type versus poison, bleed, etc), but the damage red is very cheese friendly.

[Emerald Archer]

It definitely is if you are pushing world first. Look at the majority who do H clears and then think back how many times your grp wiped because of some magical debuff that the healer / spriest didn't dispel. Same way in M+.

Secondly if you compare the buffs that druids and monks are getting; as a RL I would get a boomy and kitty and frontload with rogues, mage, monks. Who needs a hunter then.. not qq'ing but to me this is the reality

Okay, firstly are we talking high end raiding (top 100) or are we talking the majority with heroic clears?

Because if we're talking the majority with heroic clears, who cares about comp.

If we're talking high end content, or just people who clear mythic raid within the first few months, then we have the potential to cheese mechanics. And this will make the spec desirable to bring.

Also, what monk essence, you drunk? None of these are better than hunters or close to it.

Boomkin and feral is insane yes, they are by far best top tier, but hunter is the next tier down.

What people don't seem to understand is, the people with the dmg traits got screwed over. All dmg will be tuned, there's a lot of different essences, not just these pvp ones. So someone running a pvp gained dmg essence isn't going to be doing more dmg than another spec running a pve gained dmg essence. You would just run the pve essence if you had a pvp utility one.

This gives specs the OPTION to have an insane utility bonus. Whereas specs with dmg ones lose that option and gain no dmg advantage.

[Eapoe]

Okay, firstly are we talking high end raiding (top 100) or are we talking the majority with heroic clears?

Because if we're talking the majority with heroic clears, who cares about comp.

If we're talking high end content, or just people who clear mythic raid within the first few months, then we have the potential to cheese mechanics. And this will make the spec desirable to bring.

Also, what monk essence, you drunk? None of these are better than hunters or close to it.

Boomkin and feral is insane yes, they are by far best top tier, but hunter is the next tier down.

What people don't seem to understand is, the people with the dmg traits got screwed over. All dmg will be tuned, there's a lot of different essences, not just these pvp ones. So someone running a pvp gained dmg essence isn't going to be doing more dmg than another spec running a pve gained dmg essence. You would just run the pve essence if you had a pvp utility one.

This gives specs the OPTION to have an insane utility bonus. Whereas specs with dmg ones lose that option and gain no dmg advantage.

I’m curious what exact mechanics you would cheese with this ability over the last 3 raids we’ve had. 1st, I’m asking for cheese potential. Which boss abilities have we seen that cheeses an encounter having a Hunter with this essence? Keep in mind, I’m not asking how much potential does it have to reduce damage if you use FD every time it’s off CD, I’m asking how many fights would this offer some cheese strat on a boss that we’ve had this xpac.

[Emerald Archer]

I’m curious what exact mechanics you would cheese with this ability over the last 3 raids we’ve had. 1st, I’m asking for cheese potential. Which boss abilities have we seen that cheeses an encounter having a Hunter with this essence? Keep in mind, I’m not asking how much potential does it have to reduce damage if you use FD every time it’s off CD, I’m asking how many fights would this offer some cheese strat on a boss that we’ve had this xpac.

This xpac Cabal, would have been extremely powerful.
Last xpac KJ is a good example.

It's very fight dependant, and we will need to see the bosses to see the extent of use.

[Eapoe]

This xpac Cabal, would have been extremely powerful.
Last xpac KJ is a good example.

It's very fight dependant, and we will need to see the bosses to see the extent of use.

Again, I was asking about just this xpac. Which part of Cabal would there be a cheese?

[Emerald Archer]

Again, I was asking about just this xpac. Which part of Cabal would there be a cheese?

Self dispel and soaking the big pools. Extremely strong cheese. And I understand you were just asking about this xpac, but i'm not sure why it's limited to that. If anything it just means we're more likely to see mechanics that can be cheesed with it later

Having the POTENTIAL to have an extremely strong utility trait is awesome. Because if you don't need it, you just use one of the many other dmg essences, and if you do need it, you've got it there.

[bullseyed]

I'm going to be pretty disappointed if peoples qq and lack of knowledge gets this hunter trait changed. This is potentially an extremely strong trait, and having the utility option is very very nice. Go spend 20minutes looking up fights from the last 2 expansions, and just think about the potential mechanic cheese.

This is essentially an immunity and dispel on a 25second cd. This has insane potential.

If true, they'll just change those mechanics so it specifically doesn't work on them.

And they've come out then and said as much, that they're going to intentionally make the PVP talent a bad choice in PVE.

- - - Updated - - -

I’m curious what exact mechanics you would cheese with this ability over the last 3 raids we’ve had. 1st, I’m asking for cheese potential. Which boss abilities have we seen that cheeses an encounter having a Hunter with this essence? Keep in mind, I’m not asking how much potential does it have to reduce damage if you use FD every time it’s off CD, I’m asking how many fights would this offer some cheese strat on a boss that we’ve had this xpac.

You could... uh... soak stuff on Stormwall which tanks already do easily without losing DPS or soak stuff in CoS which healers already do easily without losing DPS.

Maybe on Jaina or something you could feign off the 20th stack and prevent being ice blocked, but that probably wouldn't work or else paladins would have been stacked for world first kills.

[Lodvampire]

Okay, firstly are we talking high end raiding (top 100) or are we talking the majority with heroic clears?

Because if we're talking the majority with heroic clears, who cares about comp.

If we're talking high end content, or just people who clear mythic raid within the first few months, then we have the potential to cheese mechanics. And this will make the spec desirable to bring.

Also, what monk essence, you drunk? None of these are better than hunters or close to it.

Boomkin and feral is insane yes, they are by far best top tier, but hunter is the next tier down.

What people don't seem to understand is, the people with the dmg traits got screwed over. All dmg will be tuned, there's a lot of different essences, not just these pvp ones. So someone running a pvp gained dmg essence isn't going to be doing more dmg than another spec running a pve gained dmg essence. You would just run the pve essence if you had a pvp utility one.

This gives specs the OPTION to have an insane utility bonus. Whereas specs with dmg ones lose that option and gain no dmg advantage.

And what about this: Frost DK - Frost
Chill Streak - Deals up to 6% of the target's total health in Frost damage and reduces their movement speed by 70% for 4 sec. Chill Streak bounces up to 9 times between closest targets within 6 yards.
You could bring 10 DK's and deals 60% of a boss on pull, who will take a hunter just for the soaks?

[Emerald Archer]

And what about this: Frost DK - Frost
Chill Streak - Deals up to 6% of the target's total health in Frost damage and reduces their movement speed by 70% for 4 sec. Chill Streak bounces up to 9 times between closest targets within 6 yards.
You could bring 10 DK's and deals 60% of a boss on pull, who will take a hunter just for the soaks?

Come on, that's very weak. % hp things are capped at a reasonable level on bosses. But nah dude you're totally right 60% hp in 1 hit ha ha.

- - - Updated - - -

If true, they'll just change those mechanics so it specifically doesn't work on them.

And they've come out then and said as much, that they're going to intentionally make the PVP talent a bad choice in PVE.

They said nothing like that.
"While there may be interesting PvE uses for some of the choices, it is not expected to be a strong competitor on usual PvE criteria (like total throughput) on every spec."

There MAY be interesting pve uses with feign. Likely 1 fight tops. It won't be a strong competitor, but it may have a niche somewhere. Cabal would be that niche.

[Gatto]

Would definitely be nice for pvp.
Not sure about pve.