Page 24 of 31 FirstFirst ...
14
22
23
24
25
26
... LastLast
  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    ill wait for stadia to play ps5 on my pc
    This makes zero sense, Sony exclusives are not coming to Stadia.
    My PC: Intel Core i5-4690K|16GB DDR3-1600|1TB HD|EVGA GeForce GTX 1070
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.

  2. #462
    Gonna wait and see
    last gen no console manufacturer had something even remotely of an interesting first party line up for me, so i waited like until last year to pick a ps4 and wiiu cheap to play the couple of titles that intressted me.
    Currently, sony has showed nothing in the pipeline that interests me beside TLOU2 which still releases for ps4

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    The GPU's maybe but not the CPU's or ram.
    Please tell me how many gaming CPUs where tri core and 3.2 ghz in 2005. You are literally only talking about the last gen with this CPU non sense the 360 and PS3 both had monster CPUs as did most of the ones before them for their time. Also as far as memory is concerned 512MB was the recommended memory for high end setting of almost any game in 2005, and that's what the 360 and PS3 had without windows overheard eating up a bunch of it either. Hell, memory was the one aspect the PS4 wasn't really behind in either. 8 GB GDDR5 was really good in 2013.

    Also the fact you think Quake and UT on PC looked anywhere near as good as dreamcast games at the time is lmao status. Sonic Adventure, Shenmue, NFL and NBA2k, and all the model 3 arcade games make those games look like ass dude. Watch the DF retro video on shenmue if you want to know just how far behind PC gaming was at rendering while the dreamcast was king.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-04-27 at 07:47 PM.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Please tell me how many gaming CPUs where tri core and 3.2 ghz in 2005. You are literally only talking about the last gen with this CPU non sense the 360 and PS3 both had monster CPUs as did most of the ones before them for their time. Also as far as memory is concerned 512MB was the recommended memory for high end setting of almost any game in 2005, and that's what the 360 and PS3 had without windows overheard eating up a bunch of it either. Hell, memory was the one aspect the PS4 wasn't really behind in either. 8 GB GDDR5 was really good in 2013.

    Also the fact you think Quake and UT on PC looked anywhere near as good as dreamcast games at the time is lmao status. Sonic Adventure, Shenmue, NFL and NBA2k, and all the model 3 arcade games make those games look like ass dude. Watch the DF retro video on shenmue if you want to know just how far behind PC gaming was at rendering while the dreamcast was king.
    Hell before the Dreamcast dropped the N64 was beating PC's in graphic's as well.
    My PC: Intel Core i5-4690K|16GB DDR3-1600|1TB HD|EVGA GeForce GTX 1070
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.

  5. #465
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    9,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Please tell me how many gaming CPUs where tri core and 3.2 ghz in 2005.
    Clock speeds don't matter and the PS3 had one PowerPC core. The key thing here to understand is that the Xbox One's 360 emulator does emulate the tri-core 3.2 Ghz CPU, and that's very telling. You see emulation requires at least 10x more processing power than the device you're trying to emulator, so Microsoft's 360 emulator runs a 3.2Ghz PowerPC core on a single 1.6Ghz Jaguar core. Which means the Xbox One's 1.6Ghz Jaguar core is at least ten times faster than the 3.2Ghz PowerPC in the Xbox 360. As for the PS3, well that was more of a joke since hardly anyone used the SPE's. In fact most games on the Xbox 360 and PS3 pretty much use one PowerPC core.

    You can actually see the PS3 CPU benchmarked against other CPU's. I believe the PS3 has two threads for the PowerPC core. People did get Linux running on these machines. This person even got the GPU working on the PS3.

    Also as far as memory is concerned 512MB was the recommended memory for high end setting of almost any game in 2005, and that's what the 360 and PS3 had without windows overheard eating up a bunch of it either. Hell, memory was the one aspect the PS4 wasn't really behind in either. 8 GB GDDR5 was really good in 2013.
    One of the biggest complaints from developers was the 360's and PS3's memory. Skyrim for the PS3 has issues with it's memory since half is dedicated to the GPU. The 8 GB of memory on the PS4 and Xbox One was a good call since a lot of gaming PC's today have that much memory as well. Also 2005 is more like 2006 since the console was released holiday season of 2005.
    Also the fact you think Quake and UT on PC looked anywhere near as good as dreamcast games at the time is lmao status. Sonic Adventure, Shenmue, NFL and NBA2k, and all the model 3 arcade games make those games look like ass dude. Watch the DF retro video on shenmue if you want to know just how far behind PC gaming was at rendering while the dreamcast was king.
    I don't want to turn this into a PC vs console debate as the mods here don't like that. So I'd rather just talk about the specs of the machines. I'm sure the mods are giving me the evil eye right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Hell before the Dreamcast dropped the N64 was beating PC's in graphic's as well.
    That is true, but PC gaming wasn't really a thing back then. Before the Voodoo graphics card a PC that could play games had a Sound Blaster 16 in it, with a port meant to plug in a controller.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Clock speeds don't matter and the PS3 had one PowerPC core. The key thing here to understand is that the Xbox One's 360 emulator does emulate the tri-core 3.2 Ghz CPU, and that's very telling. You see emulation requires at least 10x more processing power than the device you're trying to emulator, so Microsoft's 360 emulator runs a 3.2Ghz PowerPC core on a single 1.6Ghz Jaguar core.
    You honestly have no idea how Xbox One BC works. It doesn't emulate shit, it completely re compiles the games to run on the Xbox One hardware. This is why 360 discs are literally just DRM on Xbox One, they don't even install data as the complete 360 file of the game is worthless to the Xbox One. You have to download the Xbox One files from the servers. There is a reason games are slowly added to it over time, not just some magical "emulator" you think it is.

    On the PS3 front, claiming the cell processor was "1 core" is grade A lol worthy. Not sure if you're trying to get by on a technicality or just really don't understand the tech in it at all.

    Lastly on that regard you are talking about devs complaining about the memory in the 360/PS3 in literally 2011. 6 and 5 years after they came out, talk about a damn goal post shift, obviously after that period of time they have fallen well behind PC. At their launches in 2005/06 they where on par with high end gaming PCs, that is a fact.


    Also you are factually wrong on the dreamcast thing. It isn't a console vs pc thing, it's just a fact. Unreal looked an entire generation behind Shenmue at best(and I'm being generous because it actually looks like pure trash in comparison if I'm being honest). This video right here proves that. They literally compare it to PC games of the time if you're too lazy to watch, and the comparison is night and day.



    PC game rendering and tech didn't catch up to and surpass the dreamcast until a good 2 years after it's release.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-04-27 at 10:52 PM.

  7. #467
    of Horizon Zero Dawn sequel is one of their launch titles as rumored?... there is 75% chance that I will be unable to resist buying ps5 more or less at launch :/ unless the price is so outrageous that I won't be able to justify it to myself, until it goes on sale during holidays or something.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    of Horizon Zero Dawn sequel is one of their launch titles as rumored?... there is 75% chance that I will be unable to resist buying ps5 more or less at launch :/ unless the price is so outrageous that I won't be able to justify it to myself, until it goes on sale during holidays or something.
    Guerilla's next game which is likely Horizon 2 will be at worst launch window if not an outright launch game. Their current schedule leaves then with 1 launch game and 1 mid gen game, like Killzone Shadowfall was a PS4 launch game and Horizon was mid gen. By time the PS5 launches it will be 3.5+ years since Horizon came out and Horizon came out 3.5 years after Killzone Shadowfall.

    Speaking of Sony's 1st party dev schedules if they can avoid their early gen mess ups like they had during PS4 the PS5 will end up with an even better lineup as crazy as that is. Uncharted 4 had to be scrapped and restarted, and SSM was working on a sci fi game that got cancelled. Without mess ups like that we literally get an extra ND and extra SSM game.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-04-28 at 12:38 AM.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Guerilla's next game which is likely Horizon 2 will be at worst launch window if not an outright launch game. Their current schedule leaves then with 1 launch game and 1 mid gen game, like Killzone Shadowfall was a PS4 launch game and Horizon was mid gen. By time the PS5 launches it will be 3.5+ years since Horizon came out and Horizon came out 3.5 years after Killzone Shadowfall.

    Speaking of Sony's 1st party dev schedules if they can avoid their early gen mess ups like they had during PS4 the PS5 will end up with an even better lineup as crazy as that is. Uncharted 4 had to be scrapped and restarted, and SSM was working on a sci fi game that got cancelled. Without mess ups like that we literally get an extra ND and extra SSM game.
    I fully expect a strong PS5 launch lineup even more so if the asking price of the system is higher ($500). They need to have a core reason to buy the PS5 and as much as I love BC that won't be it or can't be the only reason.

    So I fully expect Horizon 2 as the big title with smaller titles like Knack 3 and maybe even a couple new small IP's. Plus the added bonus of recent (at the time) releases like TLOU2 being playable at higher res/performance.
    My PC: Intel Core i5-4690K|16GB DDR3-1600|1TB HD|EVGA GeForce GTX 1070
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.

  10. #470
    well.... RIP my wallet.

    yes. i admit. I am THAT person that buys a console solely for specific exclusives.

  11. #471
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    9,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You honestly have no idea how Xbox One BC works. It doesn't emulate shit, it completely re compiles the games to run on the Xbox One hardware. This is why 360 discs are literally just DRM on Xbox One, they don't even install data as the complete 360 file of the game is worthless to the Xbox One. You have to download the Xbox One files from the servers. There is a reason games are slowly added to it over time, not just some magical "emulator" you think it is.
    Modern emulators do this but you're still emulating the 3.2Ghz CPU and you're also doing it with a lot of overhead. I would imagine the difficulty for Microsoft to make a working emulator would require that each game have its own version of the emulator since PC authors of emulators don't always get every game working. They do but it takes a lot of time, which Microsoft doesn't have. Think of it like how Wine works on Linux where as great as Wine is one version breaks stuff but works well for one game while another version doesn't for this other game. What you're suggesting is that Microsoft remakes the game to work on the Xbox One, which is a huge undertaking and the effort would be better off porting the game and remastering it. A Dynamic Recompiler isn't anything new to emulation and has been around since the days of BLEEM, but the alternative is interpreter and that requires a lot more than 10x more performance. All modern emulators use a recompiler and still require a massive amount more processing power than the original machine. HLE or High Level Emulation can disable certain parts of the CPU to try to speed it up and that maybe another thing Microsoft is doing and requires hand tuning the emulator, which maybe the reason why nearly each Xbox 360 game gets it's own downloadable.

    Either way the Xbox One's 1.6Ghz X86 core's are at least 10x faster than the 3.2Ghz PowerPC cores in the Xbox 360. The GameCube, Wii, and Wii U PowerPC CPU's are more closer to what you'd find on a G4/G5 Mac back in the day, since it has Out-of-Order execution, and clock for clock they would destroy the PS3/360's In-Order ~3Ghz PowerPC CPU's. Don't be fooled by the high clock speed of the PS3/360 as even the PS5 will probably not be much higher in clock speed but would utterly decimate it in IPC.
    On the PS3 front, claiming the cell processor was "1 core" is grade A lol worthy. Not sure if you're trying to get by on a technicality or just really don't understand the tech in it at all.
    If you saw the video the guy did benchmark it and it was grade A lol worthy. He didn't use the SPE's which is the Cell's trump card, but they're too specialized to make good use of in a benchmark. Even Gabe Newell has expressed his hatred for how the PS3 works.
    Also you are factually wrong on the dreamcast thing. It isn't a console vs pc thing, it's just a fact. Unreal looked an entire generation behind Shenmue at best(and I'm being generous because it actually looks like pure trash in comparison if I'm being honest). This video right here proves that. They literally compare it to PC games of the time if you're too lazy to watch, and the comparison is night and day.



    PC game rendering and tech didn't catch up to and surpass the dreamcast until a good 2 years after it's release.
    Comparing Shenmue to Unreal isn't an apples to oranges comparison. Yes, Shenmue was graphically impressive but also it's a single player game and not multiplayer, hence you can go ham on textures and polygons in Shenmue. Unreal Tournament on Dreamcast compared to PC wasn't even close. So that's why I stick with games that have been ported on both the Dreamcast and PC. Also, we did have the Dreamcast GPU on PC, it was called PowerVR. It couldn't compete against the Geforce/TNT's or Radeons of that time, though I was impressed with its Tile Based Rendering technology. Which Nvidia might have added to their GPU's since Maxwell without disclosing it.

    But I'd argue that after the late 90's you don't buy a game console for the best graphics but to get an affordable gaming experience. While Sega did use hardware from their arcade machines, they're not the same exact hardware you got from their home console, and it shows. Anyway after the late 90's the console market has relied on cheap off the self hardware to make their consoles, and you can show me as many Shenmue's or whatever you want, but the fact is that game consoles were always behind in tech. Maybe a generation behind, many a few, but it was enough that the PC always looked different in graphics. The PS5 is the first console to throw that away and go high end. They're not using a cheap low performance CPU, and they're using a GPU that can do Ray-Tracing and one that's probably better than a RTX 2060, at least.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I fully expect a strong PS5 launch lineup even more so if the asking price of the system is higher ($500). They need to have a core reason to buy the PS5 and as much as I love BC that won't be it or can't be the only reason.

    So I fully expect Horizon 2 as the big title with smaller titles like Knack 3 and maybe even a couple new small IP's. Plus the added bonus of recent (at the time) releases like TLOU2 being playable at higher res/performance.
    They will probably follow Horizon 2 with God of War: Thor's Electric Boogaloo within a year 1.5 years of launch. Year 3 is where I suspect they will be a true monster because I would expect a Spider-Man sequel and a new IP from Naughty Dog there.

    Japan Studio will probably have multiple projects out in that same time. I also Bluepoint's current remake project is likely a PS5 game at this rate, an exclusive one at that and will be out within the first 1.5 years or so.

    Also something I don't see mentioned much when people are too busy hyping up MS studio purchases(with nothing to show for it) there is now TWO Sony San Diego's, one makes MLB The Show and we don't actually know what the new studio there is working on yet, but they are led by ex Naughty Dog employees.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Modern emulators do this
    No they don't. Literally no emulator does this and what the Xbox One does is not emulation as the word is currently defined. Emulation is a form of reverse engineering, MS is literally taking the source code and re-doing it for those games and making it run native on the Xbox One. It's not emulation. MS literally has the equivalent of an entire AAA dev team working on this shit and you think it's emulation, comical.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-04-28 at 07:23 AM.

  13. #473
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    9,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    No they don't. Literally no emulator does this and what the Xbox One does is not emulation as the word is currently defined. Emulation is a form of reverse engineering, MS is literally taking the source code and re-doing it for those games and making it run native on the Xbox One. It's not emulation. MS literally has the equivalent of an entire AAA dev team working on this shit and you think it's emulation, comical.
    You're suggesting that Microsoft has the source code to every game they emulated on Xbox One? I could see legal problems with that, which is why that never happened. That also sounds like a port and not emulation. Sounds like to me you've watched Digital Foundry's Video which explains it poorly. All modern emulators since BLEEM including modern emulators give you an option to run it as Interpreter, which gives it more accuracy but runs extremely slow, and Dynamic Recompilation which is when you take an executable meant for one architecture like the PowerPC in the 360 and recompile it for another like x86 on the Xbox One. Modern emulators call it JIT Recompiler and they don't use any source code to do it. Even Java does it due to how Java works. But it is still slower than porting the game over and still requires 10x more processing power to do it.

    For example a certain PS3 emulator uses ahead-of-time LLVM recompiler but also uses ASMJIT recompiler for the SPE's. I believe the Xbox 360 emulator on the Xbox One uses a lot of ahead-of-time compilation's but that still requires a very fast CPU. So yea, LLVM recompilers are the new hot thing in emulation but I know a certain somebody who isn't even using a recompiler for his PS4 emulator and is instead making a Virtual Machine and thus bypassing the need to recompile any code. Sounds a lot like what Sony is doing with their PS4 backwards compatibility on the PS5.

    When it comes to console hardware choices, a lot of times certain hardware is used cause it looks good on paper. The Xbox 360's triple core 3.2Ghz CPU sounds impressive on paper but lacking out-of-order execution made it slow as molasses. There's a reason why Steve Jobs rejected Sony's Cell processor. The PS4's and Xbox One's 8 core 1.6Ghz was also chosen for looking good on paper, even though it would have been better to have 4 cores running at 3.2Ghz considering how hard it is for developers to work on multi-threaded code.

  14. #474

  15. #475
    The interesting part is them believing the PS4 will still be the primary source of profits for the next 3 years. That's probably 2 years into the PS5s life. It speaks about how successful the PS4 has been for them, they actually lost money in 2013 in spite of launching the PS4 and a slew of PS3 exclusives before it even. The revenue the PS3 generated didn't turn a profit compared to the R&D costs of the PS4.

    SIE will likely never report a loss again, at least not any time in the foreseeable future. They will eat the R&D costs of PS5 easily with the absurd amount of revenue PS4 and PSN are now generating. They no longer have "resets" where they slowly build up to profitability again.

  16. #476
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Better part of NJ
    Posts
    9,612
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    The interesting part is them believing the PS4 will still be the primary source of profits for the next 3 years. That's probably 2 years into the PS5s life. It speaks about how successful the PS4 has been for them, they actually lost money in 2013 in spite of launching the PS4 and a slew of PS3 exclusives before it even. The revenue the PS3 generated didn't turn a profit compared to the R&D costs of the PS4.
    Or more likely consumers are less likely today to buy new hardware to play the same games available on the PS4. The same thing happened to the PS4 as it took a while before enough people bought a PS4, so a lot of games for the PS4 were remasters of games on the PS3. For developers to make games exclusive to the PS5 would alienate themselves from the massive market that is the PS4. Which means for a few years we're going to see games released on both the PS4 and PS5, at least until the market share of the PS5 is sizeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    New info about the PS5:

    A lot of that is just marketing speak. Seriously, 8K? No PC can do 4k perfectly, let alone 8k. 3D audio? Here I am stuck using 2D audio. The interesting part is "Disc support". I wonder if that means the Blu-Ray drive is external?
    Last edited by Vash The Stampede; 2019-05-22 at 01:05 PM.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Or more likely consumers are less likely today to buy new hardware to play the same games available on the PS4. The same thing happened to the PS4 as it took a while before enough people bought a PS4, so a lot of games for the PS4 were remasters of games on the PS3. For developers to make games exclusive to the PS5 would alienate themselves from the massive market that is the PS4. Which means for a few years we're going to see games released on both the PS4 and PS5, at least until the market share of the PS5 is sizeable.


    A lot of that is just marketing speak. Seriously, 8K? No PC can do 4k perfectly, let alone 8k. 3D audio? Here I am stuck using 2D audio. The interesting part is "Disc support". I wonder if that means the Blu-Ray drive is external?
    The 8k spec is just going to be for media. It'll be releasing as the push for 8k media begins, so it makes sense. 3D audio is just a vague term that sells headphones and speakers. Disc support I believe will be built in, or it'll be optional, as more than likely there will be a digital only console and one with a disk drive.

  18. #478
    Really excited for the new concol

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Or more likely
    More likely nothing. Sony has never turned a profit in the first years of a consoles life.

    This will change with the PS5 because the PS4 is generating more revenue on a yearly basis then the PS2 and PS3 made in their entire lives.

    There is nothing to try to contradict about my post but way to stick to your usual of trying to play contrarian without even understanding what is going on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    more than likely there will be a digital only console and one with a disk drive.
    Highly doubtful from Sony who still has a massive stake in BR... The drives are more free for Sony then they are for MS even, and even for MS they don't cost much.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Highly doubtful from Sony who still has a massive stake in BR... The drives are more free for Sony then they are for MS even, and even for MS they don't cost much.
    If you say so. Their digital division makes vastly more than their physical media sales these days. Blu-Ray and DVD has been in decline for years. Sony themselves ate a billion dollar bullet on it back in 2017. Their digital division is turning more of a profit just through Netflix deals and the like.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •