[Megathread] PlayStation 5

[Tech614]

The interesting part is them believing the PS4 will still be the primary source of profits for the next 3 years. That's probably 2 years into the PS5s life. It speaks about how successful the PS4 has been for them, they actually lost money in 2013 in spite of launching the PS4 and a slew of PS3 exclusives before it even. The revenue the PS3 generated didn't turn a profit compared to the R&D costs of the PS4.

SIE will likely never report a loss again, at least not any time in the foreseeable future. They will eat the R&D costs of PS5 easily with the absurd amount of revenue PS4 and PSN are now generating. They no longer have "resets" where they slowly build up to profitability again.

[Vash The Stampede]

The interesting part is them believing the PS4 will still be the primary source of profits for the next 3 years. That's probably 2 years into the PS5s life. It speaks about how successful the PS4 has been for them, they actually lost money in 2013 in spite of launching the PS4 and a slew of PS3 exclusives before it even. The revenue the PS3 generated didn't turn a profit compared to the R&D costs of the PS4.

Or more likely consumers are less likely today to buy new hardware to play the same games available on the PS4. The same thing happened to the PS4 as it took a while before enough people bought a PS4, so a lot of games for the PS4 were remasters of games on the PS3. For developers to make games exclusive to the PS5 would alienate themselves from the massive market that is the PS4. Which means for a few years we're going to see games released on both the PS4 and PS5, at least until the market share of the PS5 is sizeable.

New info about the PS5:

A lot of that is just marketing speak. Seriously, 8K? No PC can do 4k perfectly, let alone 8k. 3D audio? Here I am stuck using 2D audio. The interesting part is "Disc support". I wonder if that means the Blu-Ray drive is external?

[Shinzai]

Or more likely consumers are less likely today to buy new hardware to play the same games available on the PS4. The same thing happened to the PS4 as it took a while before enough people bought a PS4, so a lot of games for the PS4 were remasters of games on the PS3. For developers to make games exclusive to the PS5 would alienate themselves from the massive market that is the PS4. Which means for a few years we're going to see games released on both the PS4 and PS5, at least until the market share of the PS5 is sizeable.


A lot of that is just marketing speak. Seriously, 8K? No PC can do 4k perfectly, let alone 8k. 3D audio? Here I am stuck using 2D audio. The interesting part is "Disc support". I wonder if that means the Blu-Ray drive is external?

The 8k spec is just going to be for media. It'll be releasing as the push for 8k media begins, so it makes sense. 3D audio is just a vague term that sells headphones and speakers. Disc support I believe will be built in, or it'll be optional, as more than likely there will be a digital only console and one with a disk drive.

[NewGenGuild]

Really excited for the new concol

[Tech614]

Or more likely

More likely nothing. Sony has never turned a profit in the first years of a consoles life.

This will change with the PS5 because the PS4 is generating more revenue on a yearly basis then the PS2 and PS3 made in their entire lives.

There is nothing to try to contradict about my post but way to stick to your usual of trying to play contrarian without even understanding what is going on.

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more than likely there will be a digital only console and one with a disk drive.

Highly doubtful from Sony who still has a massive stake in BR... The drives are more free for Sony then they are for MS even, and even for MS they don't cost much.

[Shinzai]

Highly doubtful from Sony who still has a massive stake in BR... The drives are more free for Sony then they are for MS even, and even for MS they don't cost much.

If you say so. Their digital division makes vastly more than their physical media sales these days. Blu-Ray and DVD has been in decline for years. Sony themselves ate a billion dollar bullet on it back in 2017. Their digital division is turning more of a profit just through Netflix deals and the like.

[Tech614]

If you say so.

Link anything even hinting at Sony having an all digital option.

You can't.

It won't happen, it doesn't make sense for them. The drives are cheap, they are also the prominent console manufacturer for areas of the world like large spots of EU, LA, Middle East and SEA where internet is garbage. You're just basing this off your own feel craft and "MS is trying it!" but have nothing to back it up and you're coming back at me with "if you say so". Classic response.

[Shinzai]

Link anything even hinting at Sony having an all digital option.

You can't.

It won't happen, it doesn't make sense for them. The drives are cheap, they are also the prominent console manufacturer for areas of the world like large spots of EU, LA, Middle East and SEA where internet is garbage. You're just basing this off your own feel craft and "MS is trying it!" but have nothing to back it up and you're coming back at me with "if you say so". Classic response.

Not sure why you're trying to make this a "told you so thing." I said it seems plausible. Especially based on the way their own sales and profits have been trending. I don't actually give a fuck if they do or don't, so you can shove your attitude up your ass. :3

[Tech614]

Not sure why you're trying to make this a "told you so thing." I said it seems plausible. Especially based on the way their own sales and profits have been trending. I don't actually give a fuck if they do or don't, so you can shove your attitude up your ass. :3

The way their sales are trending?

Do yourself a favor and lookup what the % Sony published game sales are sold digitally.

Living in reality instead of some silly fan fiction where Sony wastes money on R&D to drop a $15 drive that can only be used in select markets is considered having an attitude. Again- classic response.

[Shinzai]

The way their sales are trending?

Do yourself a favor and lookup what the % Sony published game sales are sold digitally.

Living in reality instead of some silly fan fiction where Sony wastes money on R&D to drop a $15 drive that can only be used in select markets is considered having an attitude. Again- classic response.

What R&D costs would it be for removing a drive on a version of PS5 unit? Why would this cost money and not just be a slot of plastic?

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/...to_grow_on_ps4

Early Q2 2018:

"The transition to digital storefronts like the PlayStation Store on consoles is gradually growing every year, and it won’t be long now before its sales eclipse physical ones. New data from Sony’s latest financial report shows that in the quarter that ended 31st March, 2018, an impressive 43 per cent of the PlayStation 4’s software sales were made digitally. For the fiscal year as a whole, that number sat at 32 per cent."

Addendum:

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/lib...supplement.pdf

Digital sales accounted for 45% of Q4 and had moved upto 37% total for 2018.

[Witchblade77]

one of the major selling points of ps5 is that its not only backwards compatible but also cross platform with ps4. they are selling it on a merit that you will be able to play your ps4 games on it and/or play with people who still own ps4. give that those are their selling points, I cannot see them removing the disk drives. sure more people are buying digital, but a lot of people STILL buy physical disks. i mean even with numbers above, half of their customer base is still buying physical.

last but not least, they can learn from reactions to all digital xbox, the way they have learned from xbox's questionable decisions before. I'm honestly not sure they would be saving all that much via disk removal when it comes to their system cost, but loss of good will is going to be much higher. if their are eventualy switching to all digital? IMO its not going to happen until either very late into ps5 cycle, or with ps6

[Chickat]

Gen 9 wont be diskless, but Gen 10 might be.

[Tech614]

What R&D costs would it be for removing a drive on a version of PS5 unit? Why would this cost money and not just be a slot of plastic?

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018/...to_grow_on_ps4

Early Q2 2018:

"The transition to digital storefronts like the PlayStation Store on consoles is gradually growing every year, and it won’t be long now before its sales eclipse physical ones. New data from Sony’s latest financial report shows that in the quarter that ended 31st March, 2018, an impressive 43 per cent of the PlayStation 4’s software sales were made digitally. For the fiscal year as a whole, that number sat at 32 per cent."

Addendum:

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/lib...supplement.pdf

Digital sales accounted for 45% of Q4 and had moved upto 37% total for 2018.

I told you to look at digital % of Sony published game not their total digital game revenue which is mostly games they didn't publish and is also including lots of games that don't even have physical options. If you want a hint the only publisher that sells a lower % of digital games they publish is Nintendo.

Also what R&D costs? So you're saying they would just pull a XBOSAD? Just remove the drive for the hell of it when it costs them almost nothing? That makes even less sense then what I thought you would mean, which is just making a much smaller model that they could actually save theoretical costs on and offer at something like $50 discount. Just removing the disc drive with no other R&D work would barely save Sony jack shit and it would sell at damn near the same price.

It just comes back to you have some bad fan fiction in your head where you think Sony will literally copy what is basically just a market test by MS on what is a soon to be dead console. If Sony was even humoring it at this time they would be testing it on the PS4, the same as MS is doing. They're not because it's ridiculous to them and the BR drives cost them almost nothing.

Not only is their no chance Sony does an all digital version of their hardware next gen, I would wager not even MS will do it anywhere near launch. Just remember the last time people blindly assumed Sony would follow MS into the "all digital future" Sony used it as a moment to put egg on MS's face. MS won't make that mistake again, nor will Sony even humor being the ones for it to happen to this time.

Edit also just to clarify another thing, PS is a WW brand unlike Xbox that is only relevant in NA and the UK. Many countries in EU still have shit internet, Latin America still has shit internet, Middle East still has shit internet, South East Asia still has shit internet, Japan has great internet but a recent famitsu survey said 72% of gamers in Japan prefer physical(not surprising either based on what we already knew). Thinking your idea is anything but a gigantic waste of time for Sony is funny. It's not like this product would just be shit for a tiny portion of their market, once you factor in all the areas in NA we're talking the majority of potential customers Sony usually has, have shit internet.

[Shinzai]

I told you to look at digital % of Sony published game not their total digital game revenue which is mostly games they didn't publish and is also including lots of games that don't even have physical options. If you want a hint the only publisher that sells a lower % of digital games they publish is Nintendo.

Also what R&D costs? So you're saying they would just pull a XBOSAD? Just remove the drive for the hell of it when it costs them almost nothing? That makes even less sense then what I thought you would mean, which is just making a much smaller model that they could actually save theoretical costs on and offer at something like $50 discount. Just removing the disc drive with no other R&D work would barely save Sony jack shit and it would sell at damn near the same price.

It just comes back to you have some bad fan fiction in your head where you think Sony will literally copy what is basically just a market test by MS on what is a soon to be dead console. If Sony was even humoring it at this time they would be testing it on the PS4, the same as MS is doing. They're not because it's ridiculous to them and the BR drives cost them almost nothing.

Not only is their no chance Sony does an all digital version of their hardware next gen, I would wager not even MS will do it anywhere near launch. Just remember the last time people blindly assumed Sony would follow MS into the "all digital future" Sony used it as a moment to put egg on MS's face. MS won't make that mistake again, nor will Sony even humor being the ones for it to happen to this time.

Edit also just to clarify another thing, PS is a WW brand unlike Xbox that is only relevant in NA and the UK. Many countries in EU still have shit internet, Latin America still has shit internet, Middle East still has shit internet, South East Asia still has shit internet, Japan has great internet but a recent famitsu survey said 72% of gamers in Japan prefer physical(not surprising either based on what we already knew). Thinking your idea is anything but a gigantic waste of time for Sony is funny. It's not like this product would just be shit for a tiny portion of their market, once you factor in all the areas in NA we're talking the majority of potential customers Sony usually has, have shit internet.

Feel free to post a link to the specific, Sony Interactive Entertainment digital sales figures.

For a start, God of War: 5 million sales in the first month, 2.1 million of which were digital.

Japan has always had a preference for physical media, due to their culture. It's why anime was still majorly physical sales driven until the past few years.

Why are you sperging so hard over this? Is the idea that they may release a cheaper PS5 without a disk drive really that outlandish and scary to you?

[Tech614]

Why are you sperging so hard over this? Is the idea that they may release a cheaper PS5 without a disk drive really that outlandish and scary to you?

And... he still doesn't get it.

How is it going to be cheaper, you yourself just said a post ago it wouldn't take any additional R&D they would just remove the drive. That means the BoM would basically be the exact same, in other words it wouldn't be cheaper.

How much do you honestly think a BR drive costs Sony of all people? Hilarious. The only way they could get a cheaper model out of this is if they spent loads more on R&D and engineered a completely new model without it designed on saving costs and lol if you really think they're going to do that.

You can't even be consistent with your cool fan fiction theory.

[Shinzai]

And... he still doesn't get it.

How is it going to be cheaper, you yourself just said a post ago it wouldn't take any additional R&D they would just remove the drive. That means the BoM would basically be the exact same, in other words it wouldn't be cheaper.

How much do you honestly think a BR drive costs Sony of all people? Hilarious. The only way they could get a cheaper model out of this is if they spent loads more on R&D and engineered a completely new model without it designed on saving costs and lol if you really think they're going to do that.

You can't even be consistent with your cool fan fiction theory.

Simple, they make it $50 cheaper. People would buy it.

Also, stop saying fan-fiction, it's getting pretty retarded.

[Tech614]

Simple, they make it $50 cheaper. People would buy it.

Also, stop saying fan-fiction, it's getting pretty retarded.

Dude really thinks Sony spends $50 on BR drives.

You wonder why I keep saying fan fiction? Because that's what you're writing.

[Shinzai]

Dude really thinks Sony spends $50 on BR drives.

You wonder why I keep saying fan fiction? Because that's what you're writing.

Oh right. Of course Sony sells them to the end user at cost price. Good job.

[Zenfoldor]

I think a big feature of the PS5 is going to be BC and boost mode with PS4 games. I think many PS4 games, especially Sony exclusives, will likely get PS5 patches which if nothing else improve load times and perhaps frame rates.

That is purely speculation. The other benefit of a physical license(disc) is being able to easily trade games. That could also be accomplished with digital, just not as easily.

Anyway, if PS5 is BC with PS4(which we think it will be) and if BC is a big selling feature(which we think it will be) it would not make sense to offer a PS5 without a disc drive as the primary console. That's because many(most?) of our licenses are the discs and BC would be useless for any game not purchased digitally.

Of course there could be a digital only PS5 at launch, or eventually as an alternate SKU, with a cheaper price tag, but at 50 dollars cheaper, Sony is losing more money than they are saving by removing the disc drive.

They could allow USB Disc Drives to license BC games on the PS5, but I doubt they go that route as a serious solution, without selling that drive as proprietary.

I think Sony will consider BC a critical success factor for the console, because of course their biggest competitive advantage is this: They are the company that released the PS4. The PS4's library of exclusive and 3rd party games is probably unequaled in gaming history with the arguable exception of the PC. If they make the PS5's library contain everything on the PS4, plus PS5 games, then that gives them a big, and immediate boost to their library and the perceived value of their console vs any potential competition.

If they do add better boost mode and fast loading to some/most/all of the popular PS4 games, then I would expect that value to skyrocket even further, because the best version of those games in the PS4 library would be on the PS5.

Best way to think of it is this. Bloodborne is a very popular game with Playstation fans. They have been talking about it for years. Other people who only have PC or Xbox have been hearing about this game and putting it aside in their head because they cannot play. However, they are aware of it. Now the PS5 comes out and imagine Sony drops a patch that lets it play on PS5 and it is significantly improved(instant loads, 60fps). This is just an example, no announcement has been made about this. Those people will be tempted to jump in. It gives them a jumping in point to a library they have been naturally curious of over the past several years.

This is the same reason why sequels will do better then the original. Look at John Wick 1 vs 2 vs 3, and see how the audience grew due to word of mouth and continued new opportunities to entry. This creates an entry point for the PS4 exclusive library, all by offering a disc drive and taking BC seriously.

[Tech614]

Oh right. Of course Sony sells them to the end user at cost price. Good job.

Actually, yes the PS4 was sold around at cost at launch, as was the PS4 Pro at it's launch, as will be the PS5 at it's launch.

https://www.engadget.com/2013/11/19/...0J452fU6i_QK2N

PS4 costed $381 to make at launch. After accounting for shipping and retailer cut Sony made absolutely nothing on each unit sold. The PS5 will be sold at a similar margin and thinking removing the blue ray drive would allow them to lower the price by $50 is a really, really silly claim.