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  1. #1
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Is this Really Anti-Semitic?

    So MSNBC is admonishing NYT this morning because of a cartoon which is this:




    Is this truly anti-Semitic? Funny the source is breitbart where the front page news doesn't include the synagogue shooting.

    Anyway I remember the era of this:



    Was this anti-British? What about George Michaels "shoot the dog"


    Anyway I'm not sure what specifically is suppose to be anti Semitic they say because the face of the dog is Bibi, okay and? That seems specific dislike towards a single politician not the entirety of judaism.

    Because he is being led by a dog with a star of David which is on the flag... being this dog is Bibi does it not make sense? Specifically it appears any cartoon of any Israeli politician is immediately conflated with hate for all jews everywhere.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So MSNBC is admonishing NYT this morning because of a cartoon which is this:




    Is this truly anti-Semitic? Funny the source is breitbart where the front page news doesn't include the synagogue shooting.

    Anyway I remember the era of this:



    Was this anti-British? What about George Michaels "shoot the dog"


    Anyway I'm not sure what specifically is suppose to be anti Semitic they say because the face of the dog is Bibi, okay and? That seems specific dislike towards a single politician not the entirety of judaism.

    Because he is being led by a dog with a star of David which is on the flag... being this dog is Bibi does it not make sense? Specifically it appears any cartoon of any Israeli politician is immediately conflated with hate for all jews everywhere.
    Its anti-zionist to be precise, but its to the benefit of the Jewish lobby to conflate anti-zionism and anti-semitism

    I thought the cartoon was a fairly apt description of the relationship between Israel and US right now.

  3. #3
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashnazg View Post
    Its anti-zionist to be precise, but its to the benefit of the Jewish lobby to conflate anti-zionism and anti-semitism

    I thought the cartoon was a fairly apt description of the relationship between Israel and US right now.
    Oh God I grew up a large part of my life in New York and most jews I came across weren't zionist and didn't like what Israel was doing recently. This is the same sentiment I get from people I know now.

    What annoys me greatly is all media essentially conflates anti-zionist with anti-semitism it doesn't matter the political leaning (which truly is just far right or centrist)

  4. #4
    >caring what MSNBC thinks
    i usually don't ask weather-vanes for their political opinion, seeing as it changes with a buffet of wind.

  5. #5
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Also Israels oldest newspaper here:

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...itic-1.7173253

    The New York Times’ cartoon of Benjamin Netanyahu as a guide dog for Donald Trump that angered the “Jewish world” is actually a clichéd cartoon, though well-designed and certainly not anti-Semitic. It describes two leaders, one blind being led by the other. It’s a caustic image with a vicious tone, exactly what a political cartoon should be.

    The choice to illustrate Netanyahu and Trump walking with determination, and even against a blood-red background, hints that they’re not just taking an innocent morning walk. They’re on a survivalist hunting trip. What are they hunting? Foreigners? Leftists? The hostile media?

    The Star of David on Netanyahu’s collar is totally justified, and there’s a reasonable chance that if Netanyahu had to choose a symbol to wear around his neck, he’d pick this one. Netanyahu is leading Trump, his steps a little tense, but the leadership role is definitely flattering for the head of a small country.
    The media said Netanyahu was drawn with an unusually large nose, but a very superficial look confirms that Netanyahu’s nose hasn’t been distorted, certainly not in a way reminiscent of anti-Semitic cartoons, as has been alleged. The complaint that the illustration is anti-Semitic reinforces the feeling that the Foreign Ministry looks for every possible justification to play the victim to silence critics.


    Images depicting politicians as blind people with guide dogs is as old as the advent of political cartoons. James Akin’s infamous one from 1804 shows Thomas Jefferson with the body of a dog. Richard Nixon has also been drawn as a dog, and Tony Blair as a dog wearing an American flag as his collar. American patriots have been depicted as a herd of blind horses.

    Were these cartoons outlawed as anti-American? No. The artist John Graham has shown Trump on all fours and a bunch of missiles up his derriere. Imagine the cry of “anti-Semitism” if Netanyahu were depicted in a similar position, say, with Patriot missiles, or submarines.


    Meanwhile, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been portrayed as a wild dog biting Barack Obama’s hand. His nose was made to look a lot longer than Netanyahu’s in this week’s cartoon. Was there any outcry against the Ahmadinejad cartoon or demands to outlaw it as anti-Semitic?
    Theresa May was depicted by the graffiti artist The Pink Bear Rebel this year, was she not? She’s seen blindfolded being led by a blindfolded bulldog wearing a British-flag doggie jacket. You can only guess what the Foreign Ministry would say about a cartoon of a bulldog wrapped in an Israeli flag.
    Under pressure from the Israeli consul general in New York and the Foreign Ministry, the Trump-Netanyahu cartoon was removed from the internet. The newspaper published a clarification, a half apology, and described the cartoon as offensive and an error in judgment.

    A cartoon is by definition an exaggeration that looks for weak points. Sometimes it’s a warning sign: It provides strong, exaggerated images to shock and awaken. That was the case this time, a moment before this duo drags us along with them on a leash on a nighttime stroll

    Zeev Engelmayer
    Last edited by Themius; 2019-04-29 at 01:25 PM.

  6. #6
    I'm not sure what is anti-Semitic about it.

  7. #7
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm not sure what is anti-Semitic about it.
    I posted an article from a large Israel's oldest newspaper. I'd liken them to times of Israel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    lets see

    what is being said with the skullcap on Trump? That he is secretly a Jew, dual loyalty?
    what is being said by Trump being blind and having Isreal leading him? That implies Israel secretly controls US policy or controls America. The jews control the world trope
    what is being said by the dog leash with a Star of David? hmm who else put the star of david on jews historically?
    what is being said with Bibi being the dog? hmmm who else depicted jews as animals


    NOPE COMEPLETLY FINE M8 you fucking idiot
    Read the article from the jewish newspaper.

    blind being led by a dog is literally a trope of political cartoons for.. wait for iT... OVER 200 YEARS

    the star of David is on the flag he is the pm.. why wouldn't it be on him?

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    No, but sure is funny.

    People need to stop being offended by cartoons. Life is way harder than that without stressing over stupid shit. If you have time in the day to find that offensive, then you have TOO much time on your hands and might consider finding something productive to fill it with.

  9. #9
    Over 9000! Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Whenever anyone criticizes Israel the phrase Anti-Semitic comes up. This needs to stop because Israel is doing some bad stuff that's killing people and phrases like Anti-Semitic shouldn't be an excuse to deter the discussion.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    lets see

    what is being said with the skullcap on Trump? That he is secretly a Jew, dual loyalty?
    what is being said by Trump being blind and having Isreal leading him? That implies Israel secretly controls US policy or controls America. The jews control the world trope
    what is being said by the dog leash with a Star of David? hmm who else put the star of david on jews historically?
    what is being said with Bibi being the dog? hmmm who else depicted jews as animals


    NOPE COMEPLETLY FINE M8 you fucking idiot
    I think the one questionable act would be putting the yarmulke on Trump, because he is not Jewish (he's also not a Christian). The rest doesn't strike me as anti-Semitic, as it's simply a blind asshole being led around by Netanyahu. The imagery of the Star of David doesn't strike me as offensive, as it's there to make it clear who the dog is. Without the Star, which is on the Israeli Flag, it would be more difficult to understand.

    As for the yarmulke, my only guess would be his incessant pandering of religious people, like when he tried to show people his favorite Bible, and it was clear that the guy had probably never cracked on open in his entire life.

  11. #11
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I think the one questionable act would be putting the yarmulke on Trump, because he is not Jewish (he's also not a Christian). The rest doesn't strike me as anti-Semitic, as it's simply a blind asshole being led around by Netanyahu. The imagery of the Star of David doesn't strike me as offensive, as it's there to make it clear who the dog is. Without the Star, which is on the Israeli Flag, it would be more difficult to understand.

    As for the yarmulke, my only guess would be his incessant pandering of religious people, like when he tried to show people his favorite Bible, and it was clear that the guy had probably never cracked on open in his entire life.
    You don’t have to be Jewish to wear a kippah. Obama wore one it is a sign of solidarity and sharing of culture and respect.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You don’t have to be Jewish to wear a kippah. Obama wore one it is a sign of solidarity and sharing of culture and respect.
    I know very little about religious customs. It seems out of place in this cartoon.

  13. #13
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I know very little about religious customs. It seems out of place in this cartoon.
    Many heads of state wear it when visiting Israel or taking part of events.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Many heads of state wear it when visiting Israel or taking part of events.
    Meh, it simply raised an eyebrow.

  15. #15
    Nah, Zionist loby has always been a bunch of whiny bitches. That's how they always get away with pretty much any thing.

    Just look at Bibi, he has been playing the victim card for all his life, while slathering innocent people and breaking international law left and right.

    Little whiny bitches, that all they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Darkener View Post
    If you've never worked with Orthodox Jews then you have no idea how dirty they are. Yes, they are very dirty and I don't mean just hygiene
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    most of the rioters were racist black people with a personal hatred for white people, and it was those bigots who were in fact the primary force engaged in the anarchistic and lawless behavior in Charlottesville.

  16. #16
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Is it anti-semitic? No.

    Will anti-semetic people use it as a reason to hate Israel, Jews, and Trump more, probably.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  17. #17
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    For me it's not about whether it's offensive or not. But whether there is a double standard. Could a mainstream news source depict Obama in a chimp-like manner holding the leash of a goat with the face of a Muslim leader? If so, then I would say it's all fair criticism of public figures.

  18. #18
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    I don't think so. It's not mocking Jewish people. Definitely meant to offend zionists. I'm not the business of telling people what offends them because something could be unintentionally offensive.

  19. #19
    My thinking is this: it's probably not meant to be anti-Semitic, but the interpretation is up to the reader. There aren't words here that describe the meaning of the cartoon as with most political cartoons. As the cartoonist, if you keep that in mind, and you have a particular point you want to make with the drawing, you will try to keep this sort of imagery out of it. Because the point will be lost otherwise.

    The fact that this is the topic of discussion and not the point the cartoonist was trying to make proves this.

    Now, where this doesn't make any sense is in the response to Ilhan Omar's criticism of AIPAC, where her words are very clear, but most people don't hear or read her words -- they read and hear the second-hand reactions to those words, where the interpretation is lost.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    Could a mainstream news source depict Obama in a chimp-like manner holding the leash of a goat with the face of a Muslim leader?
    Is that a common occurrence I'm not familiar with, a chimp leading a goat like a person being led by their seeing eye dog?

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