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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    How are Paladins in 5 mans? Are they good at tanking/healing/dpsing?

    Do they have fun class quests?

    Going Human.

    Thanks.
    I only had bad experiences with protadins in end game 5mans even dungeons with undead like strat LIVE/UD.

    But some people swear by them so maybe it was just the pallies I played with at the time.
    “to wear an improper expression on your face was itself a punishable offence. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: FACECRIME, it was called.”

  2. #42
    I find it strange to read this thread and see everyone talking about how utterly AMAZING Paladins are as tanks in Vanilla when I don't recall a single instance when I ever even saw one back then. They were nearly all Holy, with a small handful that were Ret. Never met a Tankadin until TBC.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Did I say that you can't? No, I said that I haven't seen any prot paladins tanking while leveling, because outside of dungeons you had to level on your own which is easier in ret spec and which is more convenient.
    And i say again WTF does what spec you are have to do with tanking a dungeon while leveling...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    And i say again WTF does what spec you are have to do with tanking a dungeon while leveling...
    Ok. So you start leveling paladin. You choose retro because it's faster and more convenient. You don't go to dungeons regularly, you do it once in a while because this is how it's going to be and you don't have gold to respec and you're far away from the capitals to respec each time to go to there as a tank and you can't tank in retro. Maybe you can but people will choose a proper tank over you.

  5. #45
    You are forgetting one important thing , people will do 5 man with any tank or any healer as long as they want to tank or heal.
    People forgot what its like to sit 2 H waiting for a tank to do a piss easy 5 man.

    Its all depends on the group setup, if the group is well geared or even the healer is a bit over geared any tank will be alright just keep the agrro.

    Paladins had great AOE threat and was good to run with, people just used to blow out all their CDs on the 1s of the fight and expect paladins to hold aggro ... threat metters are important to use and adjust your play style to the group you are playing with and the problem is solved.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by PavelGolub View Post
    You are forgetting one important thing , people will do 5 man with any tank or any healer as long as they want to tank or heal.
    People forgot what its like to sit 2 H waiting for a tank to do a piss easy 5 man.

    Its all depends on the group setup, if the group is well geared or even the healer is a bit over geared any tank will be alright just keep the agrro.

    Paladins had great AOE threat and was good to run with, people just used to blow out all their CDs on the 1s of the fight and expect paladins to hold aggro ... threat metters are important to use and adjust your play style to the group you are playing with and the problem is solved.
    This... this should be pinned somewhere xD
    Exactly.
    Warrior wouldn't hold aggro as well.. but he has taunt. So he can negate your stupidity little bit better.
    But in the end, in his mind, you are an idiot trying to tank with ,,wrong" class

    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    That because until 38 is useless level as prot vs retri 1h + shield
    So you prefer to switch in prot on lvl 38?
    I would rather go 10-20 holy for consecration
    and then rest in retri untill 51(holy shiled + consecration).
    You dont have impr. Righteous fury, but imp. Retribution aura, Benediction, extra parry and Consecration. Latter on your holy damage is boosted with Vengeance.
    With this setup, you are still able to kill something by your own and be able to tank.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Nargoron; 2019-04-17 at 11:03 AM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nargoron View Post
    This... this should be pinned somewhere xD
    Exactly.
    Warrior wouldn't hold aggro as well.. but he has taunt. So he can negate your stupidity little bit better.
    But in the end, in his mind, you are an idiot trying to tank with ,,wrong" class



    So you prefer to switch in prot on lvl 38?
    I would rather go 10-20 holy for consecration
    and then rest in retri untill 51(holy shiled + consecration).
    You dont have impr. Righteous fury, but imp. Retribution aura, Benediction, extra parry and Consecration. Latter on your holy damage is boosted with Vengeance.
    With this setup, you are still able to kill something by your own and be able to tank.

    What do you think?
    I am planing on playing a Paladin in classic and that's my plan too going down 11 points in Holy for Intellect/Interrupt/Cons then pushing down into the Ret tree. Get Str/Int/Sta gear and you can tank and heal in dungeons if you need too witch is handy you always missing one of those when you want to do your dungeon with quests+you'll be really efficient at solo lvling not a fast killer but no stop once you learn to seal Wis/Hol when you need them . at 51 switch to deep prot and start AoE grind at EPL/WPL undeads going to get a shield with spikes and DMG to Undead enchant and just farm it away =]

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nargoron View Post
    This... this should be pinned somewhere xD
    Exactly.
    Warrior wouldn't hold aggro as well.. but he has taunt. So he can negate your stupidity little bit better.
    But in the end, in his mind, you are an idiot trying to tank with ,,wrong" class



    So you prefer to switch in prot on lvl 38?
    I would rather go 10-20 holy for consecration
    and then rest in retri untill 51(holy shiled + consecration).
    You dont have impr. Righteous fury, but imp. Retribution aura, Benediction, extra parry and Consecration. Latter on your holy damage is boosted with Vengeance.
    With this setup, you are still able to kill something by your own and be able to tank.

    What do you think?
    38 because you get Seal of Wisdom so you get an absurd mana regen ( on top of 5/5 Divine Int and 5/5 Benediction )

    And because from 38-40 to 50 or even 60 some spec can aoe farm instead of questing and it is way more worth than try to it SoC with no hit.

    OFC the strongest and real true Prot build requires Holy Shield + BoS + Spike no matter what. ( The early version pre 60 don't requires consecration )

    But you can start working around early.

    Screen incoming.

    https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...ladin/AsMQAAHP



    You basically level 1h + Shield.

    Start Consacration, dive Retri to get Impr Judgement and Improv Crusader

    And this will bring you at lvl 30, where you gain Seal of Light and you can start pull more than 1 mobs and having a better regen.

    At 31 you can respec, same build but instead of Improv SoRight you get the less pushback on healing and get SoCommand

    Then you will still judge Crusade etc etc but SoC can hit a lot if you stun somebody and JSoC.

    At this point you can level straight to 60 like this going further in Retribution
    OR

    At 40 you can respec again and go full Prot, you will not have nor Holy nor Retri points, just full Prot and get HS BoS and start aoe farm.

    Keep in mind that you will have to use

    Retribution Aura : So no Improv Devotion/No Defense Trait ( useless pre 60)/ Armor Traits / 4/5 Reckoning.


    At this point you can go Holy and get back Consacration or again Retri for SoC, since you will have improved HoJ so you can do more often the busrt combo Stun+JSoCmd
    ------



    But keep in mind you need a good preplanning and investment because you will need a decent equip to farm aoe with reflect dmg ( HS BoS RetriAura Consa Spike)

    And ofc you need to check a good spot for aoe farming and ofc-part2 there will be other people.
    Last edited by Daikoku; 2019-04-17 at 02:14 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    Ok. So you start leveling paladin. You choose retro because it's faster and more convenient. You don't go to dungeons regularly, you do it once in a while because this is how it's going to be and you don't have gold to respec and you're far away from the capitals to respec each time to go to there as a tank and you can't tank in retro. Maybe you can but people will choose a proper tank over you.
    YOU. DONT. NEED. TO. RESPEC. TO. TANK. IN. VANILLA. All you do is literally put a shield on and tank... How can you not understand what i am saying?

    Furthermore no warrior is leveling in Prot spec they do the same thing, no druid is leveling with feral-bear talents selected they do the same thing.

  10. #50
    Pre 50 any dungeon can be tanked just with shield ( that you should already use even if Retri ) and play safe with SoL etc you have already a base kit.

    At 60 the story is quite different.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    YOU. DONT. NEED. TO. RESPEC. TO. TANK. IN. VANILLA. All you do is literally put a shield on and tank... How can you not understand what i am saying?

    Furthermore no warrior is leveling in Prot spec they do the same thing, no druid is leveling with feral-bear talents selected they do the same thing.
    Then iam looking forward to watch you tanking as full retribution paladin without Consecration, improved reighteous fury or holy shield.
    It looks like your forget, that even fury warrior has defensive stance, Shield wall, taunt , aoe damage... which are crucial abilities to tank. Prot is just extra sugar if you need more defense (and move aggro few steps further).
    On the other hand, paladin has everything he needs for tanking in prot/holy tree.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    YOU. DONT. NEED. TO. RESPEC. TO. TANK. IN. VANILLA. All you do is literally put a shield on and tank... How can you not understand what i am saying?

    Furthermore no warrior is leveling in Prot spec they do the same thing, no druid is leveling with feral-bear talents selected they do the same thing.
    oh child, Mandela effect is strong here

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nargoron View Post
    Then iam looking forward to watch you tanking as full retribution paladin without Consecration, improved reighteous fury or holy shield.
    It looks like your forget, that even fury warrior has defensive stance, Shield wall, taunt , aoe damage... which are crucial abilities to tank. Prot is just extra sugar if you need more defense (and move aggro few steps further).
    On the other hand, paladin has everything he needs for tanking in prot/holy tree.
    I agree that Cons and, to a much smaller extent, Imp RF are crucial to tanking as Prot, however I disagree with HS.

    Back in Vanilla I used to tank Scholo, among other things, as Arms wielding a 2-h, so let's not overrate the actual difficulty of 5-mans, especially the levelling ones.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Nargoron View Post
    Then iam looking forward to watch you tanking as full retribution paladin without Consecration, improved reighteous fury or holy shield.
    It looks like your forget, that even fury warrior has defensive stance, Shield wall, taunt , aoe damage... which are crucial abilities to tank. Prot is just extra sugar if you need more defense (and move aggro few steps further).
    On the other hand, paladin has everything he needs for tanking in prot/holy tree.
    except were talking about while leveling, sorry you dont need any special prot tree enhancements to fekin tank WC or SFK

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mackeith View Post
    I agree that Cons and, to a much smaller extent, Imp RF are crucial to tanking as Prot, however I disagree with HS.

    Back in Vanilla I used to tank Scholo, among other things, as Arms wielding a 2-h, so let's not overrate the actual difficulty of 5-mans, especially the levelling ones.
    fair enough... you can tank with Holy shock as well, its even beter for single target

    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    except were talking about while leveling, sorry you dont need any special prot tree enhancements to fekin tank WC or SFK
    even for SFK Consecration is pretty helpful. But you can do it as retri for sure... but sunken temple or brd? naah.. that is different story.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    I find it strange to read this thread and see everyone talking about how utterly AMAZING Paladins are as tanks in Vanilla when I don't recall a single instance when I ever even saw one back then. They were nearly all Holy, with a small handful that were Ret. Never met a Tankadin until TBC.
    Just because YOU never saw one doesn't mean that they were good or bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    oh child, Mandela effect is strong here
    Your entire thesis is not based on facts at all. Just your personal opinion. If you have nothing to contribute then please leave my thread. Thanks.

  17. #57
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    Mained a pally ever since release essentially. Don’t listen to the nay sayers, All 3 specs are absolutely viable, even in high end content. Remember this is vanilla not retail. It’s raids are 40 players and the only raid that is tightly tuned is Naxx and by then you’ll have Hand of Rag and enough gear to exceed the minimum dps required. As stated before tanking sucks without a taunt but so long as your group isn’t terrible it’s EZ mode. Any class can dps 5 mans with ease remember it isn’t retail, there are no heroic nor mythic difficulties. The hardest 5 man is the timed strath run and i did those runs on my Ret all the time.

    It isn’t a dps race, it’s a mechanics and gearing test. The biggest issue is getting attuned and getting your resistance gear, after that it’s just learning the strategies and downing bosses.
    Human Ret Paladin main since '04

    Glory To The Alliance!

  18. #58
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    Viable is a difficult question to twist yourself around. Can it be done? Can a paladin tank, heal, and dps in 5 mans? Yes. Is it the better choice? No, not really. I say these things with the mind set of near equal levels of skill and knowledge in play because as most of you know if someone is just so much more knowledgeable or skill than someone else it can over shine pure class mechanics in a majority of cases. It should also be pointed out I am looking at this as someone that doesn't have a very set group to run with because lets face it.. if you have a very set group to run with.. guess what.. they will be taking you unless you are just beyond terrible.

    As far as tanking goes a druid does better AOE threat, is harder to kill, has better tools, and manages resources better than a paladin as the other "black sheep" of the tanking family in classic. So you really have better choices to go with if people are looking and options are available. If a warrior or druid is around odds are you as the protection paladin will be over looked.

    As far as DPS goes.. alright.. if people feed the shit out of gear to you (you are raid leader, guild leader, or give/take sexual favors with one of these) you can become moderately acceptable. But just like with tanking better options are out there. A lot of them. So if people are looking and options are available than you know how that is going to go. With how the trinity works and the lack of on the fly respecing DPS tend to be in high numbers and thus a lot easier to pick and choose though. So just food for thought.

    Healing. Well healing you aren't going to have a problem. You bring a ton of buffs, healing, and are harder to kill than most of the other healers. You won't have an issue. Classes with a holy or resto option in classic can all heal like a boss because it is pretty much the "go to" end game spec for them.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    I find it strange to read this thread and see everyone talking about how utterly AMAZING Paladins are as tanks in Vanilla when I don't recall a single instance when I ever even saw one back then. They were nearly all Holy, with a small handful that were Ret. Never met a Tankadin until TBC.
    They're basing this on their Vanilla experience outside of the official Vanilla experience. It's likely going to be VERY different when retail releases. 14 years ago paladin tanks were complete trash, it wasn't until BC where they were viable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracerz07 View Post
    Mained a pally ever since release essentially. Don’t listen to the nay sayers, All 3 specs are absolutely viable, even in high end content. Remember this is vanilla not retail. It’s raids are 40 players and the only raid that is tightly tuned is Naxx and by then you’ll have Hand of Rag and enough gear to exceed the minimum dps required. As stated before tanking sucks without a taunt but so long as your group isn’t terrible it’s EZ mode. Any class can dps 5 mans with ease remember it isn’t retail, there are no heroic nor mythic difficulties. The hardest 5 man is the timed strath run and i did those runs on my Ret all the time.

    It isn’t a dps race, it’s a mechanics and gearing test. The biggest issue is getting attuned and getting your resistance gear, after that it’s just learning the strategies and downing bosses.
    You very likely won't have hand of rag, no. lol. Also "Remember this is vanilla not retail." - Yeah, in Vanilla there were a lot of specs that weren't viable. In retail, not so much.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    They're basing this on their Vanilla experience outside of the official Vanilla experience. It's likely going to be VERY different when retail releases. 14 years ago paladin tanks were complete trash, it wasn't until BC where they were viable.
    BC was still touch and go. I did have both a Retadin and a Protadin in my regular early Kara/Gruul/Mag line up. They were talented, but subpar to other specs that would have been as talented as them. We had fun though and cleared stuff without too much trouble. Later content was a bit rough with both of them. It wasn't really until Wrath where Ret (especially) and Prot shined. I mained Ret in WOTLK and pretty easily topped all the DPS meters in ICC.

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