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  1. #61
    Holy Paladins are very strong tanks from 20-50. They bring amazing support too, and can even heal themselves for a while if something happens to the healer. It requires a bit of coordination, but it's not really that bad if you keybind mark enemies.
    Last edited by Zafire; 2019-04-18 at 02:13 AM.

  2. #62
    The Patient Tracerz07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    You very likely won't have hand of rag, no. lol. Also "Remember this is vanilla not retail." - Yeah, in Vanilla there were a lot of specs that weren't viable. In retail, not so much.

    Anyone seriously raiding with a guild will have hand of rag, I have no idea what kind of guild you raided with but by the time Naxx came out my guild had 2 thunderfurys(one of our rogues and our warrior MT) and 3 hand of Rags(1 Pally, 2 warriors). Also please, stop this pretending that you need to be min maxing through the shit tiers. The ONLY difficult content that absolutely REQUIRED. Geared and skilled players was the later half of AQ 40 and Naxx 40. By then your core raid roster is set and geared to the teeth. Anyone with hand of Rag is viable. Period. You do not need some insane bullshit raid comp to raid vanilla. Hell we were 10 manning ZG, 15 manning MC, and BWL with ease. The memes of people auto attacking shit in the earlier tiers are absolute fact.

    Like I said, nothing in the early raids is a real dps race(lol the “dps race” 2nd boss in BWL able to be 25 manned with competent MC geared players), it’s about mechanics and it ends there. If you think people won’t get vanilla mechanics down after current raids, especially those like Legion and BFA( KJ, Jaina, and high tinker to point out fights that absolutely put vanilla to shame).

    Don’t get me wrong vanilla was amazing and I’m hype for it, but don’t pretend it’s some insanely difficult stuff that will require comp stacking and perfect players, because it absolutely isn’t.
    Human Ret Paladin main since '04

    Glory To The Alliance!

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracerz07 View Post
    Anyone seriously raiding with a guild will have hand of rag, I have no idea what kind of guild you raided with but by the time Naxx came out my guild had 2 thunderfurys(one of our rogues and our warrior MT) and 3 hand of Rags(1 Pally, 2 warriors). Also please, stop this pretending that you need to be min maxing through the shit tiers. The ONLY difficult content that absolutely REQUIRED. Geared and skilled players was the later half of AQ 40 and Naxx 40. By then your core raid roster is set and geared to the teeth. Anyone with hand of Rag is viable. Period. You do not need some insane bullshit raid comp to raid vanilla. Hell we were 10 manning ZG, 15 manning MC, and BWL with ease. The memes of people auto attacking shit in the earlier tiers are absolute fact.

    Like I said, nothing in the early raids is a real dps race(lol the “dps race” 2nd boss in BWL able to be 25 manned with competent MC geared players), it’s about mechanics and it ends there. If you think people won’t get vanilla mechanics down after current raids, especially those like Legion and BFA( KJ, Jaina, and high tinker to point out fights that absolutely put vanilla to shame).

    Don’t get me wrong vanilla was amazing and I’m hype for it, but don’t pretend it’s some insanely difficult stuff that will require comp stacking and perfect players, because it absolutely isn’t.


    Pretty sure you are def spewing swamp....

  4. #64
    The Patient Tracerz07's Avatar
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    If you mean speaking truth and not overhyping stuff? Sure.

    I had a full raid geared lock and Paladin in vanilla, cleared everything until Naxx came out while it was current where my guild died due to fatigue and the TBC announcement. Naxx will forever be the worst planned release of any raid in warcrafts history. They released what is arguably the pinnacle of vanilla wow with no where near enough time to enjoy it before TBC dropped.

    All I’m saying is almost every spec is viable, yes they are not comparable to top tier specs but by no means does this mean they are not viable. Especially the early tiers. Any class and spec is viable in ZG, Mc, Ony, BWL, Aq20 and a majority of aq40. Only at the end of AQ40 did it get truly difficult. Everything else was child's play.

    When discussing 5 mans, the discussion ends with a very clear “yes, your class is viable for 5 man content. Period.” This isn't a level 20 mythic plus where there’s some insane mechanics that need to be cheesed by *insert x class*, they are straight forward and simple. What matters is utilizing CC and allowing your tank to maintain aggro and not over pulling stuff. The hardest 5 man is the timed strath run for the tier .5 upgrade quests, but by the time that’s introduced anyone taking this game seriously will truly out gear that stuff.
    Human Ret Paladin main since '04

    Glory To The Alliance!

  5. #65
    I am Murloc! RoKPaNda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracerz07 View Post
    Anyone seriously raiding with a guild will have hand of rag, I have no idea what kind of guild you raided with but by the time Naxx came out my guild had 2 thunderfurys(one of our rogues and our warrior MT) and 3 hand of Rags(1 Pally, 2 warriors). Also please, stop this pretending that you need to be min maxing through the shit tiers. The ONLY difficult content that absolutely REQUIRED. Geared and skilled players was the later half of AQ 40 and Naxx 40. By then your core raid roster is set and geared to the teeth. Anyone with hand of Rag is viable. Period. You do not need some insane bullshit raid comp to raid vanilla. Hell we were 10 manning ZG, 15 manning MC, and BWL with ease. The memes of people auto attacking shit in the earlier tiers are absolute fact.

    Like I said, nothing in the early raids is a real dps race(lol the “dps race” 2nd boss in BWL able to be 25 manned with competent MC geared players), it’s about mechanics and it ends there. If you think people won’t get vanilla mechanics down after current raids, especially those like Legion and BFA( KJ, Jaina, and high tinker to point out fights that absolutely put vanilla to shame).

    Don’t get me wrong vanilla was amazing and I’m hype for it, but don’t pretend it’s some insanely difficult stuff that will require comp stacking and perfect players, because it absolutely isn’t.
    So explain that, in a raid of 40 people, if you had 3 Hands of Rag which is above average btw but lets assume that it's typical, how does that make it "very likely" that you'll have a hand of rag? You do realize it's RNG right? You might raid MC every single week and never see an Eye or a particular binding. I absolutely love the "I have no idea what kind of guild you raided with." as if there was any sort of anything except luck involved in getting TF/Hand of Rag.

    I don't think anyone is pretending that anything requires comp stacking or perfect players, Ret is extremely subpar in terms of damage output. Whether you need to be perfect or not isn't the issue. If you like intentionally crippling yourself, sure play Ret in a raid. For myself personally if I was looking at meters and saw where perfectly played ret was compared to where decently played Rogue/Warrior/Hunter/etc was I'd probably not be happy, but if your personal performance doesn't matter to you at all then hey go for it.

    Feel free to PM me and let me know when you get a Hand of Rag on classic btw.
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there?| FOR THE HORDE

  6. #66
    I think there's a big difference between people who played actual vanilla and private server vanillas. Private server vanillas will not admit that they only played on a private server (where everything actually can be viable and raids are easy and gearing up is pretty much as painless on live), so it complicates any accurate discussion on what vanilla was or was not.

  7. #67
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    YOU. DONT. NEED. TO. RESPEC. TO. TANK. IN. VANILLA. All you do is literally put a shield on and tank... How can you not understand what i am saying?

    Furthermore no warrior is leveling in Prot spec they do the same thing, no druid is leveling with feral-bear talents selected they do the same thing.
    You need at least consecration to tank as a paladin. If won't hurt taking for leveling anyways, but you'll use it only in dungeons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictu View Post
    I think there's a big difference between people who played actual vanilla and private server vanillas. Private server vanillas will not admit that they only played on a private server (where everything actually can be viable and raids are easy and gearing up is pretty much as painless on live), so it complicates any accurate discussion on what vanilla was or was not.
    It's also funny to me how some people scream about thunderfury and hand of rag being so wide-spread that multiple people in their guild had it, but never mention beneditction, which was way more wide-spread, useful and wanted in raid (outside, maybe thunderfury on a tank)... but too often quest for it didn't worked or the item simply didn't drop on private servers.
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  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    As far as tanking goes a druid does better AOE threat
    Druid have the worst aoe threat. And aoe threat is literally the only thing a paladin can do well (and better than any other tank). Tanks are rare for 5man anyway so anything that can tank be will be sought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictu View Post
    I think there's a big difference between people who played actual vanilla and private server vanillas. Private server vanillas will not admit that they only played on a private server (where everything actually can be viable and raids are easy and gearing up is pretty much as painless on live), so it complicates any accurate discussion on what vanilla was or was not.
    Gearing is the same on private server, boss drop the same amount of loot. Raids are often harder because they are buffed on purpose. (The early one might still be easier than vanilla because of 1.12 talent but classic will start with 1.12 talents too. Classic will actually probably be closer on alot of point to private server than vanilla for this reason)

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    They're basing this on their Vanilla experience outside of the official Vanilla experience. It's likely going to be VERY different when retail releases. 14 years ago paladin tanks were complete trash, it wasn't until BC where they were viable.
    No it isnt stop spread bullshit as usual.

    If you never played Vanilla or didn't try out any hybrid spec have the decency to shut the fuck up.

  10. #70
    Pallies are great. Buffs, Healing, Tanking ...yeah, thats it.

  11. #71
    Just sayin


    [ye ye patch 2.01 but tbc was on 2.0.3 with the prot viability buffs]


  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    Your entire thesis is not based on facts at all. Just your personal opinion. If you have nothing to contribute then please leave my thread. Thanks.
    Your thread? I will not because I am here to share my opinions and we're living in a free country, boy.

  13. #73
    Stood in the Fire Piesor's Avatar
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    A skilled Paladin on your side will safe the day more than once, but I wouldn't play Paladin anyway in Classic

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    I never seen a paladin tank while leveling, never, only retribution pals mostly because respec was a pain in the ass and it's easier to level up in ret.
    I'm not sure if it applies to Classic as I only started playing my first Pally in BC, however questing as Prot was fine. Make big pulls and with Ret aura you are doing some very nice thorns damage, plus doing AOE consecration, while being tanky enough to survive. Then you can easily transition to 5-mans very easily and make a group happy bringing a real tank (I seem to recall most of my dungeons pre-60 were done with no spec'd tank or healer).

    The main issue for Prot questing is if you run into a place that's caster heavy as they won't pull into your consecration/ret aura.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I'm not sure if it applies to Classic as I only started playing my first Pally in BC, however questing as Prot was fine. Make big pulls and with Ret aura you are doing some very nice thorns damage, plus doing AOE consecration, while being tanky enough to survive. Then you can easily transition to 5-mans very easily and make a group happy bringing a real tank (I seem to recall most of my dungeons pre-60 were done with no spec'd tank or healer).

    The main issue for Prot questing is if you run into a place that's caster heavy as they won't pull into your consecration/ret aura.
    That because in TBC ( 2.0.3) they buffed Prot Pala and give basically a better base core to do that job.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    That because in TBC ( 2.0.3) they buffed Prot Pala and give basically a better base core to do that job.
    I still saw folks doing that in Vanilla, which is where I got the idea - and the abilities are all there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    Druid have the worst aoe threat. And aoe threat is literally the only thing a paladin can do well (and better than any other tank). Tanks are rare for 5man anyway so anything that can tank be will be sought.
    Yeah, Druids were 3 target AOE, and it was frontal cone. Warriors had 360 with T-Clap, and it was 4 targets, which is better than Druid, but nothing beats 360-all-targets with Pally and consecration for holding AOE threat on big pulls.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I still saw folks doing that in Vanilla, which is where I got the idea - and the abilities are all there.
    IDD but the difference between vanilla and tbc was basically this, ASSUMING LV 60 FOR BOTH

    Vanilla


    TBC



    Basically both tree were 90% similar and thus Pala Prot pre 2.0.1 and 2.0.1 didn't notice a huge difference at lv 60, you noticed it during levelling.

    But in 2.0.1 PProt got : Taunt "AoE" | Ardent Defender | RFury flat dmg redux talent


    Those were HUGE buffs and let PProt begin viable for MT Tanking in TBC Raids, 5man doesnt count since they were viable even before so..
    Last edited by Daikoku; 2019-04-18 at 09:18 AM.

  18. #78
    In 5 mans you can do any spec, 5 mans are easy in Classic.

    Holy is one of the best, if not the best for 5 mans.
    Tanking is meh, gear is limited and when I've played with Prot Paladins in 5 mans (yes on a naughty server), they have to drink often, slowing things down. This is in BiS as well.
    DPS is shit, but 5 mans are easy, so it doesn't really matter. People will be less likely to take you though.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2019-04-18 at 09:28 AM.

  19. #79
    Mechagnome Storfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    I never seen a paladin tank while leveling, never, only retribution pals mostly because respec was a pain in the ass and it's easier to level up in ret.
    That's not because they are bad but more likely because:

    A) They are afraid to tank.
    B) Dont want to tank.
    C) Dont have consecration spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    Just sayin


    [ye ye patch 2.01 but tbc was on 2.0.3 with the prot viability buffs]

    Onyxia would actually be a great fight to tank as a paladin since there is no taunt involved (she's immune), and you'll continue generate threat even when knocked back due to having consecration. Combine this with the fact that onyxia hits like a newborn kitten so damange will not be hard to healers to handle.
    Last edited by Storfan; 2019-04-18 at 09:30 AM.
    “Listen... Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.” – Dennis

  20. #80
    most classes and specs are viable for everything. Unless you plan on having 1 max lvl character and do progress Nax, pick whatever class you want.

    In current retail its easy to just swap to another class. Leveling goes by quickly and you can even boost a class. So changing it up is not that big of a deal.


    In classic it will be totally different. You cant just level up a new class in no time. You are much better off picking a class you will enjoy playing than taking a class you might think will be "best".

    Rambling over. Paladins do fine in 5 mans, no issues. Can heal, tank & dps no problem.

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