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  1. #61
    I think there's a big difference between people who played actual vanilla and private server vanillas. Private server vanillas will not admit that they only played on a private server (where everything actually can be viable and raids are easy and gearing up is pretty much as painless on live), so it complicates any accurate discussion on what vanilla was or was not.

  2. #62
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    YOU. DONT. NEED. TO. RESPEC. TO. TANK. IN. VANILLA. All you do is literally put a shield on and tank... How can you not understand what i am saying?

    Furthermore no warrior is leveling in Prot spec they do the same thing, no druid is leveling with feral-bear talents selected they do the same thing.
    You need at least consecration to tank as a paladin. If won't hurt taking for leveling anyways, but you'll use it only in dungeons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictu View Post
    I think there's a big difference between people who played actual vanilla and private server vanillas. Private server vanillas will not admit that they only played on a private server (where everything actually can be viable and raids are easy and gearing up is pretty much as painless on live), so it complicates any accurate discussion on what vanilla was or was not.
    It's also funny to me how some people scream about thunderfury and hand of rag being so wide-spread that multiple people in their guild had it, but never mention beneditction, which was way more wide-spread, useful and wanted in raid (outside, maybe thunderfury on a tank)... but too often quest for it didn't worked or the item simply didn't drop on private servers.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    As far as tanking goes a druid does better AOE threat
    Druid have the worst aoe threat. And aoe threat is literally the only thing a paladin can do well (and better than any other tank). Tanks are rare for 5man anyway so anything that can tank be will be sought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictu View Post
    I think there's a big difference between people who played actual vanilla and private server vanillas. Private server vanillas will not admit that they only played on a private server (where everything actually can be viable and raids are easy and gearing up is pretty much as painless on live), so it complicates any accurate discussion on what vanilla was or was not.
    Gearing is the same on private server, boss drop the same amount of loot. Raids are often harder because they are buffed on purpose. (The early one might still be easier than vanilla because of 1.12 talent but classic will start with 1.12 talents too. Classic will actually probably be closer on alot of point to private server than vanilla for this reason)

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    They're basing this on their Vanilla experience outside of the official Vanilla experience. It's likely going to be VERY different when retail releases. 14 years ago paladin tanks were complete trash, it wasn't until BC where they were viable.
    No it isnt stop spread bullshit as usual.

    If you never played Vanilla or didn't try out any hybrid spec have the decency to shut the fuck up.

  5. #65
    Pallies are great. Buffs, Healing, Tanking ...yeah, thats it.

  6. #66
    Just sayin


    [ye ye patch 2.01 but tbc was on 2.0.3 with the prot viability buffs]


  7. #67
    Mechagnome Piesor's Avatar
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    A skilled Paladin on your side will safe the day more than once, but I wouldn't play Paladin anyway in Classic

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    I never seen a paladin tank while leveling, never, only retribution pals mostly because respec was a pain in the ass and it's easier to level up in ret.
    I'm not sure if it applies to Classic as I only started playing my first Pally in BC, however questing as Prot was fine. Make big pulls and with Ret aura you are doing some very nice thorns damage, plus doing AOE consecration, while being tanky enough to survive. Then you can easily transition to 5-mans very easily and make a group happy bringing a real tank (I seem to recall most of my dungeons pre-60 were done with no spec'd tank or healer).

    The main issue for Prot questing is if you run into a place that's caster heavy as they won't pull into your consecration/ret aura.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I'm not sure if it applies to Classic as I only started playing my first Pally in BC, however questing as Prot was fine. Make big pulls and with Ret aura you are doing some very nice thorns damage, plus doing AOE consecration, while being tanky enough to survive. Then you can easily transition to 5-mans very easily and make a group happy bringing a real tank (I seem to recall most of my dungeons pre-60 were done with no spec'd tank or healer).

    The main issue for Prot questing is if you run into a place that's caster heavy as they won't pull into your consecration/ret aura.
    That because in TBC ( 2.0.3) they buffed Prot Pala and give basically a better base core to do that job.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    That because in TBC ( 2.0.3) they buffed Prot Pala and give basically a better base core to do that job.
    I still saw folks doing that in Vanilla, which is where I got the idea - and the abilities are all there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    Druid have the worst aoe threat. And aoe threat is literally the only thing a paladin can do well (and better than any other tank). Tanks are rare for 5man anyway so anything that can tank be will be sought.
    Yeah, Druids were 3 target AOE, and it was frontal cone. Warriors had 360 with T-Clap, and it was 4 targets, which is better than Druid, but nothing beats 360-all-targets with Pally and consecration for holding AOE threat on big pulls.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I still saw folks doing that in Vanilla, which is where I got the idea - and the abilities are all there.
    IDD but the difference between vanilla and tbc was basically this, ASSUMING LV 60 FOR BOTH

    Vanilla


    TBC



    Basically both tree were 90% similar and thus Pala Prot pre 2.0.1 and 2.0.1 didn't notice a huge difference at lv 60, you noticed it during levelling.

    But in 2.0.1 PProt got : Taunt "AoE" | Ardent Defender | RFury flat dmg redux talent


    Those were HUGE buffs and let PProt begin viable for MT Tanking in TBC Raids, 5man doesnt count since they were viable even before so..
    Last edited by Daikoku; 2019-04-18 at 09:18 AM.

  12. #72
    Elemental Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
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    In 5 mans you can do any spec, 5 mans are easy in Classic.

    Holy is one of the best, if not the best for 5 mans.
    Tanking is meh, gear is limited and when I've played with Prot Paladins in 5 mans (yes on a naughty server), they have to drink often, slowing things down. This is in BiS as well.
    DPS is shit, but 5 mans are easy, so it doesn't really matter. People will be less likely to take you though.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2019-04-18 at 09:28 AM.

  13. #73
    Mechagnome Storfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pppbroom View Post
    I never seen a paladin tank while leveling, never, only retribution pals mostly because respec was a pain in the ass and it's easier to level up in ret.
    That's not because they are bad but more likely because:

    A) They are afraid to tank.
    B) Dont want to tank.
    C) Dont have consecration spec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daikoku View Post
    Just sayin


    [ye ye patch 2.01 but tbc was on 2.0.3 with the prot viability buffs]

    Onyxia would actually be a great fight to tank as a paladin since there is no taunt involved (she's immune), and you'll continue generate threat even when knocked back due to having consecration. Combine this with the fact that onyxia hits like a newborn kitten so damange will not be hard to healers to handle.
    Last edited by Storfan; 2019-04-18 at 09:30 AM.
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  14. #74
    most classes and specs are viable for everything. Unless you plan on having 1 max lvl character and do progress Nax, pick whatever class you want.

    In current retail its easy to just swap to another class. Leveling goes by quickly and you can even boost a class. So changing it up is not that big of a deal.


    In classic it will be totally different. You cant just level up a new class in no time. You are much better off picking a class you will enjoy playing than taking a class you might think will be "best".

    Rambling over. Paladins do fine in 5 mans, no issues. Can heal, tank & dps no problem.

  15. #75
    Vanilla 5-mans were based around a simple premise: Everything will try to hurt you. Horribly. And if it hurts, then don't do it again ¯\ (ツ)_/¯

    Paladins let you bypass that rule with HUGE gamesaving cooldowns. Divine Intervention, Lay on Hands, Blessing of Protection, Consecration... no other class even came close to preventing as many wipes as a Paladin could. Back then, that was the difference between downing Emperor Thaurissan and getting the much coveted Hand of Justice... or ending your run at the Grim Guzzler because you had wiped too much, thanks to the Hunter in your party facepulling more than a Warrior or Druid tank could handle.

    And that was the beauty of Vanilla: Each spec was good at a specific niche. Prot was for 5mans and world farming, while Ret was for the High Warlord grind.

  16. #76
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    How are Paladins in 5 mans? Are they good at tanking/healing/dpsing?

    Do they have fun class quests?

    Going Human.

    Thanks.
    All 3 specs are viable. I played Ret for all of Vanilla and did quite well. Also with the amount of Rogues that will likely be present, Seal of Command becomes pretty badass when you have People that regularly Stun since it does 2x damage against stunned or incapacitated enemies. Ret also does nicely in a few of the Higher level Dungeons due to Undead enemies in places like Scholo and Strath are susceptible to Exorcism and it always crits, Ret's Talent Conviction which increases your Melee and Holy damage by 15% on a crit is proc'd by this which is a pretty nice bonus in damage for a 1.5sec cast. We also bring a LOT of utility to others in the group from Blessings, DI and being able to Bubble to avoid damage so that the Healer does not need to worry about us.

    The Paladin quests are pretty awesome as well, gathering the pieces for Verigan's Fist was a blast and having the questline for the Charger was a fun thing to accomplish back then and depending on your servers economy for things like Arcanite Bars and Gems can actually end up much cheaper than the lvl 60 Mount/Riding cost.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    All 3 specs are viable. I played Ret for all of Vanilla and did quite well. Also with the amount of Rogues that will likely be present, Seal of Command becomes pretty badass when you have People that regularly Stun since it does 2x damage against stunned or incapacitated enemies. Ret also does nicely in a few of the Higher level Dungeons due to Undead enemies in places like Scholo and Strath are susceptible to Exorcism and it always crits, Ret's Talent Conviction which increases your Melee and Holy damage by 15% on a crit is proc'd by this which is a pretty nice bonus in damage for a 1.5sec cast. We also bring a LOT of utility to others in the group from Blessings, DI and being able to Bubble to avoid damage so that the Healer does not need to worry about us.

    The Paladin quests are pretty awesome as well, gathering the pieces for Verigan's Fist was a blast and having the questline for the Charger was a fun thing to accomplish back then and depending on your servers economy for things like Arcanite Bars and Gems can actually end up much cheaper than the lvl 60 Mount/Riding cost.
    Conviction is the flat 5% crit to melee, do you mean the Vengeance buff? Also Exorcism is instant in vanilla and I don't believe it always crits, maybe you're thinking of a later iteration of the spell.

  18. #78
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackeith View Post
    Conviction is the flat 5% crit to melee, do you mean the Vengeance buff? Also Exorcism is instant in vanilla and I don't believe it always crits, maybe you're thinking of a later iteration of the spell.
    Oh right yeah Veng, which required Conviction to unlock. Oh yeah It seems I was remembering the TBC version, but I remember Vanilla Exorcism only being usable on Demon/Undead. The Crit buff came once they allowed it to be usable on any type, just to keep the flavour of it being more effective against unholy creatures.
    Last edited by Super Kami Dende; 2019-04-18 at 09:45 AM.

  19. #79
    Conviction is the extra %crit on MELEE

    Vindication is the 15% Agi Str DEBUFF on MELEE ATK

    Venegance is the bonus DMG PHY/HOLY after a CRIT

    -----

    Exorcism was usable only on demons and ud in vanilla maybe was in wotlk that could be usable on everybody but 100% crit on ud and demon

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Yeah, Druids were 3 target AOE, and it was frontal cone. Warriors had 360 with T-Clap, and it was 4 targets, which is better than Druid, but nothing beats 360-all-targets with Pally and consecration for holding AOE threat on big pulls.
    Druids could do it very consistently due to resource management. Granted I will say warriors are the superior tank in classic in the "duh" response of the day, but Paladins had one thing. Consecration. That's it. To be able to do it often they had to gear almost completely away from survivability which is usually bad when you want to make "big pulls".

    I suppose "best" aoe tank of the 2 non warrior tanks was to simple of a term I used. More like it's the best at that one thing that can do it consistently due to resources combined with survivability aside from the obvious choice of warrior.

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