Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #181
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    In Security Watching...
    Posts
    37,060
    This is what Nationalism and blind patriotism does.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaaz View Post
    Do not tell Ossetians that. They might really take offense.
    At first I wanted to write a lengthy explanation, but I simply do not see that you comprehend anything I am trying to tell you.
    1. There was no such thing as Georgia for most of Stalin's life. He was appointed to be a Georgian post mortem based on nothing but his place of birth, that at the actual time of his birth had a completely different name, structure and relations with the outside world. Neither his father, nor his mother were Georgians in any of their documents.
    2. A presence of certain DNA markers that are absent in Georgians points to Ossetian roots.
    3. The only logic behind assignment of Georgian nationality to Stalin is the location of his birth, which only much later became a part of newly formed Georgia. Again, inhabitants of East Jerusalem do not automatically become Israelis after annexation of this territory.
    4. Stalin is actually VERY popular in Georgia. That is partially the reason why they do not want to let go of this myth. The rest simply do not care that much to correct them. According to Forbes, Stalin has about 57% approval rating in Georgia, something that vast majority of presidents all over the world can only dream of.
    5. His repressions are very overblown. 90% of what is known about him in the West is similar to "Russia hacked US presidential elections of 2016". I mean yeah, it creates a nice narrative, a good bedtime story, but actual facts or archives in this case draw a completely different picture. I am sure you are not familiar with the idea of "destruction of cult of personality" introduced by Khrushchev in 1956. He had to create a good basis for himself as a USSR ruler and created a huge smear campaign for Stalin (who was already dead for 3 years). He even admitted that on several occasions in his memoirs, like how he had to exonerate several generals who were shot during first months of the German attack on the USSR. I can not remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of "would I have done the same? Definitely. But I had to do it because they were HIS responsibility."
    In essence, the West wanted to smear Stalin because he represented a strong USSR. You need to put a monster in charge, wash the whole country with dirt to demote any positive interest, promote fear, or people may start getting ideas. McCarthy and all that nonsense. And this met a perfect match in Khrushchev's smear campaign from inside the USSR, him wanting to secure his seat of power. Right now, there are so many myths and fabrications around Stalin's figure (who was not a saint by any means), it is extremely hard to see past that. People get easily influenced by smears. Just look at Cardinal Richelieu and what Alexandre Dumas did to his reputation. I bet that anyone who is familiar with his book "The Three Musketeers" or saw any of the films based on it, think that Richelieu was some kind of a monster, whereas in fact he was practically a savior of France as an independent country from Austria and Spain.
    Why do you think that Ossetians might be offended? They are not recognized as a separate country. And the fact that Georgia can be offended does not bother you? I recently visited this country and all the people are peaceful and hospitable. On development, I can tell you that, compared with the past, they are developing faster than any country from the CIS.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by haygarden View Post
    Why do you think that Ossetians might be offended? They are not recognized as a separate country.
    The only thing that matters to Ossetians is that they recognize themselves as separate country from Georgia.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    The only thing that matters to Ossetians is that they recognize themselves as separate country from Georgia.
    I just do not see the logic. After all, they are now part of Russia. And they get no privileges. I have a friend who was in Abkhazia. He said that people are unhappy, because they have no money and nothing develops. Ossetia was lucky that the war in their territory did not last long

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by haygarden View Post
    I just do not see the logic. After all, they are now part of Russia. And they get no privileges. I have a friend who was in Abkhazia. He said that people are unhappy, because they have no money and nothing develops. Ossetia was lucky that the war in their territory did not last long
    If everything would be decided by economics a lot less wars would be fought - and most of all, USSR would never break too, as that made no sense from economic perspective.

    Both Abkhazia and Ossetia won their independence for their own reasons, now they deal with it as they can.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    If everything would be decided by economics a lot less wars would be fought - and most of all, USSR would never break too, as that made no sense from economic perspective.

    Both Abkhazia and Ossetia won their independence for their own reasons, now they deal with it as they can.
    They have no independence. Independence from whom? They play their role in the interests of Russia. Georgia has developed rapidly, and this instability has a strong effect on their economies. Same with Ukraine. Signs of revolution began to appear, so they immediately intervened and now Ukraine is suffering greatly because of the war. This is not small Georgia, there are military forces there. Now they are making fun of the new president and the democratic process that was a month ago. This is all so that in Siberia and Kuban they do not think that something needs to be changed. Russia draws money from many resources, but everything goes to Moscow and to Putin’s friends. Travel to the east of Russia, see how people live there. Is this what people from Abkhazia, Ossetia, Crimea, Donetsk region want?

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by haygarden View Post
    They have no independence. Independence from whom? They play their role in the interests of Russia.
    By same measure Kosovo and Montenegro have no independence, as they "play their role" in the interests of EU/NATO.

    Independence from Georgia, of course; that's what wars were fought over, after all.

    Georgia has developed rapidly, and this instability has a strong effect on their economies. Same with Ukraine. Signs of revolution began to appear, so they immediately intervened and now Ukraine is suffering greatly because of the war.
    Most of that damage is self-inflicted though. Just like in case of Georgia.

    This is not small Georgia, there are military forces there. Now they are making fun of the new president and the democratic process that was a month ago.
    Well, electing president who's only defining trait is playing main role in "rags to riches" comedy "Servant of the People" about school teacher becoming Ukrainian president is pretty funny.

    This is all so that in Siberia and Kuban they do not think that something needs to be changed. Russia draws money from many resources, but everything goes to Moscow and to Putin’s friends. Travel to the east of Russia, see how people live there. Is this what people from Abkhazia, Ossetia, Crimea, Donetsk region want?
    It's still better then what Ukraine gets though, so there is that.

  8. #188
    In their defense what do they have to choose from?
    They have always and still live under the rule of one allmighty person.

    Picking a Romanov, Putler, Stalin?
    Same shit different name.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    In their defense what do they have to choose from?
    They have always and still live under the rule of one allmighty person.

    Picking a Romanov, Putler, Stalin?
    Same shit different name.
    Not really no difference. If Abkhazia were at the disposal of Georgia, then Saakashvili would start building a resort there as in Batumi. He said it. See the photos of how Batumi was before Saakashvili and how Batumi lives now.

  10. #190
    Probably because the opposition can't vote on account of being in jail/correction camps/the ground and such...

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Probably because the opposition can't vote on account of being in jail/correction camps/the ground and such...
    Stalin and Putin is evil

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I'm not American, if I was I'd be worried about how flimsy and full of holes that constitution is at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -



    How mean of us, making him choose between his "Stalin was a swell dude" and "OMG you guys Hitler wasn't so bad, Stalin was way worse" talking points.
    Shouldnt you be worried that the right wing won in Australia?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Halyon View Post
    Probably because the opposition can't vote on account of being in jail/correction camps/the ground and such...
    Russia actually run a campaign to teach the horrors of Stalin. Russians deserve Putin.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  13. #193
    I think this is the result of people here in the west being brainwashed especially by the Hollywood that Soviets were irrelevant in WWII while in fact they suffered the most with 20-30 million dead defending their land, keep in mind we don't call Truman who dropped atomic bombs on the cities full of people or JFK for spraying Vietnamese with Agent Orange as tyrants.

  14. #194
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    27,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    I think this is the result of people here in the west being brainwashed especially by the Hollywood that Soviets were irrelevant in WWII while in fact they suffered the most with 20-30 million dead defending their land, keep in mind we don't call Truman who dropped atomic bombs on the cities full of people or JFK for spraying Vietnamese with Agent Orange as tyrants.
    Let's not forget the British, who worship Churchill.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7936141.html

    "In 1943, up to four million Bengalis starved to death when Churchill diverted food to British soldiers and countries such as Greece while a deadly famine swept through Bengal."

    More: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29701767

    Of course the British don't see him as a tyrant, he only killed foreigners.. And they are, well, 'foreigners'.
    Extreme nationalism is really strong around here. Even among people who call themselves centrist or even leftists.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Give Sethrak Blizz View Post
    Russia actually run a campaign to teach the horrors of Stalin. Russians deserve Putin.
    Yyyyeeessss? Why respond with that to me? I wasn't kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by haygarden View Post
    Stalin and Putin is evil
    Yes? I know.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Give Sethrak Blizz View Post
    Shouldnt you be worried that the right wing won in Australia?
    Actually the two furthest right candidates here just lost their seats. I'm still enjoying the memes about Tony Abbott. Fuck that shitheel.

    While I'm far from thrilled with our current government (especially Scott Morrison who basically just got rewarded for mediocrity), this election didn't seem to make much of a difference one way or the other. Both candidates were dreary nonentities. And realistically, Scott will be knifed in a couple of years the next time the polls slide.

    As I've said before, I vote independent here. I'm not thrilled with the prospect of either of our main parties winning, and policy-wise it hardly makes any difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  17. #197
    Because the America was so naïve to think that Russia actually lost the cold war.

    They implemented “democracy” as part of their game plan.

  18. #198
    The Patient DevilTrigger1989's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Jasmond, Newcastle upon Tyne
    Posts
    302
    Hmmm, that's the power of propaganda. When I was in Newcastle upon Tyne for my master degree, a Polish professor explained something happened to her.What a mess!

  19. #199
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    27,448
    Quote Originally Posted by XangXu View Post
    Because the America was so naïve to think that Russia actually lost the cold war.

    They implemented “democracy” as part of their game plan.
    I can recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Evil-.../dp/8883980026

    The Cold War wasn't against Russia, it was against communism.
    Russia didn't lost it, the people lost it. Thanks to the coup the living conditions suddenly went back 50 years and they have hardly regained any of it.

    Let's not forget: At the end of the Cold War the people there had close to our living standards.
    Their life expectancy went back 5 years because of the fall: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SPDYNLE00INRUS
    It took them 20 years to recover.

    Their caloric intake dropped with over 10%: https://artir.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/compar1.png

    People are right when they say the fall of the USSR was one of the worst things to ever happen to them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •