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  1. #21
    The Undying freefolk's Avatar
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    People used to live in cloistered communities throughout America. Some of these communities were leftist, some leaned right. They never met so there was never a discussion. Berkeley, CA is an example of a American left wing community while Biloxi Mississippi is an example of a right wing community.

    Then the internet happened. For the first time ever, the two communities met. This was one hell of a collision. People freaked out, "how could someone believe differently!"

    Give it a few years, people will get used to each other. It's just a matter of time.
    .


    Sing your death song like a hero coming home.

    -- Tecumseh

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Sting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    While I agree that it is most likely a lost cause, I think having some leavening posts may still be helpful to people that have not yet totally polarized.
    I think those people mostly have left by now, I'm sorry to say. Good luck finding some of the more reasonable people here (and that wasn't sarcasm).
    ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    The fun factor would go up 1000x if WQs existed in vanilla

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I'm all for Dialogue between people with opposing views as me, but the issue is most refuse to have said dialogue. The issue is no one wants to just have a debate or discussion.
    I think a bigger issue is bad faith debaters who have poisoned the well. When you refuse to accept facts it makes debate pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

  4. #24
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I think a bigger issue is bad faith debaters who have poisoned the well. When you refuse to accept facts it makes debate pointless.
    That is true if they are purposely lying, however it is also just as likely that they actually believe what they say. In that cast is not a "bad faith" debate... it is a debate based on two different views of the same issue.

    The climate change debate, for instance may be more about not wanting to disrupt the economy, versus not actually believing it exists at all.

    On the flip side, you have people that believe the earth is flat, in earnest, and that I would say is a different issue, one of psychological (in the original meaning of that word) health of the culture, and lack of trust.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  5. #25
    Well non sheeple are fine, those who can see all sides of the story and can easily spot charlatans.
    “If you don't believe me that is too damn bad!”

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    That is true if they are purposely lying, however it is also just as likely that they actually believe what they say. In that cast is not a "bad faith" debate... it is a debate based on two different views of the same issue.

    The climate change debate, for instance may be more about not wanting to disrupt the economy, versus not actually believing it exists at all.

    On the flip side, you have people that believe the earth is flat, in earnest, and that I would say is a different issue, one of psychological (in the original meaning of that word) health of the culture, and lack of trust.
    Shocking you’d defend bad faith debaters. Truly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Why have dialogue when you can just call people racists because they said something you don;t agree with or have a different opinion than you? Thats what we do now isnt it?

    As a soft leftie myself I fear what our side is becoming


    At least some of us on the left have our heads screwed on.

    Great video.

    You're about to be called a racist though, I'm sure!

  8. #28
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Shocking you’d defend bad faith debaters. Truly.
    I am trying to make it less black and white, you know, so we can have a discussion.

    You assume all debaters are bad faith if they do not agree with you.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  9. #29
    The Patient Agrossive's Avatar
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    People no longer let others do what they want and mind their own business. If you have an opposing view now, you get attacked and fired and shamed, before you were just ignored or called an asshole or idiot.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    While I agree that it is most likely a lost cause, I think having some leavening posts may still be helpful to people that have not yet totally polarized.
    I like to think in terms of how a person detached from the subject would react. How a normal, run-of-the-mill individual would view the topic.

    To wit: "Coming together to settle differences is a good thing. Obviously not murderers, racists, crooks etc.; that would be ridiculous. But reducing polarization between people who just have differences of opinion on politics and worldviews sounds like a good thing"

    If you talked to someone with no passionate feelings already in place, this is likely how they'd approach the topic.

  11. #31
    Elemental Lord Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    'as a soft leftie'

    posts centerist dad jono pie who thinks satire is loudly saying things you actually believe to an audience of people who agree with you.

    also his script writer happens to be best buddies with Sargon, wonder why he defended nazi pug boi so much?

    'left' lmao.
    I don't care who his writer is friends with, it's the point he's trying to make that counts. The point you are trying to avoid by avoiding the subject. The point you are proving right by doing exactly what the problem is.

    Instead you try to avoid the argument, in which you then lose the argument. All I see is labels being thrown around and very little discussion. Like you are doing now. Try engaging and listening and forming a discussion before trying to take it somewhere else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Great video.

    You're about to be called a racist though, I'm sure!
    well I have been called a racist and an SJW libtard on these forums, ... heaven forbid I can form my own opinion I guess. Thats the state of us v them politics now.

    EDIT Also god damn my grammar reading is terrible today.
    Last edited by Orby; 2019-04-16 at 06:44 PM.
    "Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat—that's the key" - Geralt of Rivia

  12. #32
    The Insane
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    @Connal, the polarization is mainly just identity drama, ignore it. Most people agree on the foundations of society like democracy and capitalism being better than communism/fascism. Over the long run performance and data dictates politics, which doesn't care about any of this cultural polarization.

  13. #33
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    I like to think in terms of how a person detached from the subject would react. How a normal, run-of-the-mill individual would view the topic.

    To wit: "Coming together to settle differences is a good thing. Obviously not murderers, racists, crooks etc.; that would be ridiculous. But reducing polarization between people who just have differences of opinion on politics and worldviews sounds like a good thing"

    If you talked to someone with no passionate feelings already in place, this is likely how they'd approach the topic.
    Yeah, this is the thing that Theo brought up yesterday about the pearl clutching in people trying to "empathize" with, essentially, what our society views as monsters...

    My friend is a psychologist, she used to work in San Quentin State Prison in CA, and now she owns her own practice doing psychological assessments for the state, of sex offenders... she talks with pedophiles, essentially... from a psychological point of view, to help them, she needs to understand them... But what "normal" person would want to sit down and listen to a pedophile talk about how he has sexually fondled their 5 year old, or others?

    Ditto for racists, and murdered...

    But that is what you have to do:

    The Man Who Helped Change A Neo-Nazi's Mind
    https://www.npr.org/2017/10/06/55593...eo-nazi-s-mind

    A Former Neo-Nazi Explains Why Hate Drew Him In — And How He Got Out
    https://www.npr.org/2018/01/18/57874...how-he-got-out
    Last edited by Connal; 2019-04-16 at 06:39 PM.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I am trying to make it less black and white, you know, so we can have a discussion.

    You assume all debaters are bad faith if they do not agree with you.
    I never said that. You took it there to create a strawman so you could defend bad faith posters. Which, again, is shocking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

  15. #35
    stupid article

    If i cite a climate science article on the Co2 in the atmosphere and an increase in global temperatures over a century

    and a trump supporter says climate change is a neo marxist hoax made by the chinese,

    I DONT need to reach across the aisle, 1 side is just objectively wrong.

  16. #36
    Elemental Lord Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    stupid article

    If i cite a climate science article on the Co2 in the atmosphere and an increase in global temperatures over a century

    and a trump supporter says climate change is a neo marxist hoax made by the chinese,

    I DONT need to reach across the aisle, 1 side is just objectively wrong.
    But you can say at least you tried. The man who doesn't believe it wants to live in ignorance that's fine. You aint gonna get through to everyone. Some people are just stubborn.
    "Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat—that's the key" - Geralt of Rivia

  17. #37
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I never said that. You took it there to create a strawman so you could defend bad faith posters. Which, again, is shocking.
    I am defending people that are arguing in good faith, but have a vastly different world view, and perspective on the subject.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I think at this point neither side really has the patience to talk with the other.

    To a lot on the left, the right are evil, and to a lot on the right, the left is demonic.
    I wouldn't know about that, according to Tim Pool (journalist) it's far, far, far easier to engage in debate and conversations with the right than it is with the left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, I think a company should be legally allowed to refuse to serve black people.

  19. #39
    Merely a Setback Connal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    I wouldn't know about that, according to Tim Pool (journalist) it's far, far, far easier to engage in debate and conversations with the right than it is with the left.
    It may depend on where... but I will say that the "true believers" of SJW are pretty hard to talk to... they tend to make noise/screaming instead of dialogue.
    Vocatus atque non vocatus, deus aderit.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I am defending people that are arguing in good faith, but have a vastly different world view, and perspective on the subject.
    Which is dfferent than people who refuse to accept facts. Try to keep up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

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