[Spoilers] Lor'Themar lies or big blunder by blizzard? FORSAKEN saved the Blood Elves

[Rozz]

-snip-

Honestly no it's not. Lor being thankful to the Horde implies he's thankful to any help he's gotten at all, he doesn't need to say specific names when said people are part of the faction he's thanking. I used Talanji as an example, because people are freaking out over Lor'Themar doing something all characters do. Thanking the faction as a catch all for the assistance they received from individuals.

Half this thread is full of people spouting bullshit for the sake of being mad. People complain Lor'Themar is a Sylvanas shill and each time he proves differently, some of those same people suddenly cry he should be her plot slave. This isn't a lie or a blunder. A character is allowed to change or distance himself from people who no longer have his best interest. Which she has proven. multiple times. IDK, something something about this is part of his character development to stop living in her and Kael'Thas' shadow. Him thanking the Horde shows that he's distancing himself from her and considering the overall Horde as something he wants to further integrate into and associate with. After years of him being under her thumb and being accused of not caring about the faction enough (esp after MOP) it's a welcome change that he finally considers the Horde's people something to fight for and thank. Not just the BEs, not just Sylvanas, he's finally thinking on a larger less selfish scale.

That growth and distance doesn't mean he's suddenly not thankful for what Sylvanas has done. He has stated multiple times he is and this is often used against him by people who hate his character. We don't need him to restate it constantly, especially when it's never been contradicted.

Why is it a big deal that a character is distancing himself from someone who helped him, when said person starts becoming dangerous/untrustworthy? It's not. That's common sense. People are mad over nothing. Like always in these sorts of threads. Almost every damn thread I see about Lor'Themar is someone making up some insane Fanon interpretation of shit no one ever said or did, because they're mad. Lor'Themar is a Sylvanas shill, Lor'Themar is going to side with Sylvanas and betray the Horde, Lor'Themar is a hypocrite and murderer, Lor'Themar this. Lor'Themar that. You know what's all over the place? This disgusting mentality that people think is normal. I also find it funny that when the content goes live, the makers of these threads silently fuck off when people call them out on their lying bullshit.

Edit: Also saving his people doesn't only include one event. The salvation of the BEs is due to Sylvanas, the political ties granted by being associated with the Horde, the soldiers sent mentioned earlier, Velen and a masochistic Naaru, the dragons for hiding away and protecting their Sunwell Energies as a girl, and even fucking Illidan. Sylvanas alone isn't the reason why they're still alive or recovered, she was just one major part of a process. Forgive a dude for saying 'Horde' to cover all those times. Maybe he should've said 'Horde, some Alliance peeps, an edgelord, and some dragons' if we're going to cry over specifics.

[Qualia]

Maybe he should've said 'Horde, some Alliance peeps, an edgelord, and some dragons' if we're going to cry over specifics.

You missed the Naaru there, that's a "lies or big blunder"

[Flarelaine]

If you even bothered to get off the orc can do no wrong fetish and play through the the Blood elf start zones you'll know it was only the Forsaken that were there. No orcs, Tuaren and only trolls you see are Amani as in enemies of the blood elves

Funny, I saw a crapload of elves. Many times more than Forsaken.

[Mehrunes]

Honestly no it's not. Lor being thankful to the Horde implies he's thankful to any help he's gotten at all, he doesn't need to say specific names when said people are part of the faction he's thanking. I used Talanji as an example, because people are freaking out over Lor'Themar doing something all characters do. Thanking the faction as a catch all for the assistance they received from individuals.

What? Lor'themar outright says what specifically he's being thankful for there. You could bend over backwards a thousand times and you still wouldn't get "he's thankful for any help at all" out of that. And your comparison to Talanji and Baine still makes no sense as Baine's contribution to her plight pale in comparison to anyone else's.

Half this thread is full of people spouting bullshit for the sake of being mad. People complain Lor'Themar is a Sylvanas shill and each time he proves differently, some of those same people suddenly cry he should be her plot slave. This isn't a lie or a blunder. A character is allowed to change or distance himself from people who no longer have his best interest. Which she has proven. multiple times. IDK, something something about this is part of his character development to stop living in her and Kael'Thas' shadow. Him thanking the Horde shows that he's distancing himself from her and considering the overall Horde as something he wants to further integrate into and associate with. After years of him being under her thumb and being accused of not caring about the faction enough (esp after MOP) it's a welcome change that he finally considers the Horde's people something to fight for and thank. Not just the BEs, not just Sylvanas, he's finally thinking on a larger less selfish scale.

Lor'themar can distance himself from anything all he wants. His willingness to do so doesn't rewrite the story unless you want to tell me Lor'themar is Blizzard's writer.

That growth and distance doesn't mean he's suddenly not thankful for what Sylvanas has done. He has stated multiple times he is and this is often used against him by people who hate his character. We don't need him to restate it constantly, especially when it's never been contradicted.

Except when he falsifies reality it shows just that.

Edit: Also saving his people doesn't only include one event. The salvation of the BEs is due to Sylvanas, the political ties granted by being associated with the Horde, the soldiers sent mentioned earlier, Velen and a masochistic Naaru, the dragons for hiding away and protecting their Sunwell Energies as a girl, and even fucking Illidan. Sylvanas alone isn't the reason why they're still alive or recovered, she was just one major part of a process. Forgive a dude for saying 'Horde' to cover all those times. Maybe he should've said 'Horde, some Alliance peeps, an edgelord, and some dragons' if we're going to cry over specifics.

Saving his people does however have to include actually saving them. And restoring the Sunwell did not do that. The Blood Elves already learned to cope without it, they found new sources to satiate their addiction. The soldiers sent to Blood Elves mentioned earlier, i.e. those Garrosh was bitching about in his short story, were meaningless. As per Lor'themar's own short story (which was released at the same time as Garrosh', meaning one does not retcon the other), even one year after Dar'khan's fall, the safety of Blood Elves still relied on Forsaken alone. Without it they'd lose the entirety of Ghostlands, Orcs or no Orcs. Thrall's Horde basically ignored the Blood Elves even more than it ignored the Forsaken. Garrosh was treating them like fodder. SWP was saved by the Alliance.

[Rozz]

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I typically find you pretty reasonable, but I just have to disagree entirely. This is not that big of a deal and doesn't retcon or invalidate anything. You may hate how it was written or how it was executed, but I'm not going to argue the semantics of 'saving', dispute your interpretations since they're just opinions, or argue over facts.

The BEs were a doomed people, until the combined efforts of many lore characters saved their race. Even if Sylvanas protected them from scourge remnants, they still would've inevitably died off due to their addiction and the situation with the sunwell. If that was never addressed by Kael, Illidan, the dragons, a Naaru, Velen, etc, they still would've died. No she isn't their only benefactor and yes being associated to the Horde gave at least political sway to deter careless invasion/assault. IDK why he has to give the total history of the High Elves, when he can just thank most of his current allies for any past aid by saying 'Horde'. If he only thanked Sylvanas, you bet people would complain 'what about the Horde'? There is no winning when people just want to be salty and petty.

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You missed the Naaru there, that's a "lies or big blunder"

Damn. Shame on me

[Zandalariprelate]

Why would anyone care for Arthas? He is as bad if not worse than Sylvanas.

We were just making funny theories about Arthas or what we would like to see from him. I agree he is way worse than Sylvanas which is why he has to return and teach a lesson in how to be a proper villain and monster. I would love to see him killing Anduin and making him into some wrath spectre.

[Grythletubs]

Forsaken did help the blood elves get into the horde, there's no debating that.

However, that doesn't mean the blood elves are supposed to follow the forsaken on their current genocidal campaign.

[dekal]

This really clears up why Lor'themar stuck with Sylvanas for so long and why he was willing to defend her. However, everything has a breaking point i suppose.

[Verdugo]

However, that doesn't mean the blood elves are supposed to follow the forsaken on their current genocidal campaign.

Why not, Void Elves are bigger threat to them than Sylvanas.