(SPOILERS!!!) 8.2 PTR summary

[Kallisto]

1.) Player agency (loyalist vs. rebel quest-chain divergence)

Unfortunately it doesn't even seem that way either. Loyalist is basically "Yeah you told us now go along with it anyway." at this point unless a major racial leader NPC is also playing the same game it's almost certainly just going to end with "Oh yeah I forgot to tell Sylvanas about this, she sees you just like the others. Too bad really, time to die." from Nathanos.

[thesmall001]

Anyone who still believes this is not MoP 2.0 tell me 5 differences. I'll wait

There's a fair case to be made that Sylvanas is justified and that the "rebellion" is not.
There's an actual attempt at letting Horde players choose which side they choose to support.
Characters of all Horde races are depicted on both sides.
The Alliance are actually depicted as having some internal strife as to how extreme the response should be.
Sylvanas has outwitted every move against her by the Horde unlike Garrosh.
[Speculation]
At the end of all this, the difference is that Anduin isn't going to stop Jaina from dismantling the Horde.
Sylvanas won't go down fighting to prove a point like Garrosh did.
Baine, Thrall, Saurfang, Lor'themar all know now that they failed to live up to their agreement at the end of MoP.
This all ends with the Horde crumbling under its own morality. It ends with an Alliance Occupation of the Horde.

I think a lot of people on this forum haven't quite woken up to this yet. This -is- MoP 2.0, that's the point of sequels, they reflect the themes of the original but they explore divergences. This is the story of what happens when the Horde fails to uphold honour... Again. And that's going to seem really unfair to Horde players who did uphold it. And it's going to seem really justified to the Alliance whether they're Neutral-to-Horde or Anti-Horde. And going into the next expansion, I expect we'll see the Alliance start to take some liberties from the Horde who'll begin to chafe under Alliance rule. I think it's going to get really interesting.

[Grazrug]

Well Alliance players are forced to play with the horde after all this.





Shandris is the adopted daughter of Tyrande, the high Priestress of Elune. Shandris herself can even call for Elunes Power but sure, some Arcanist that mainly cares about magic knows these things better.

Add Siege of Zuldazar, Purge of Dalaran, Genn attacking the forsaken fleet out of the blue and Jaina trying to drown Orgrimmar twice on the list. More accurate.

[Zandalariprelate]

Every Zandalari player forced to work with the Alliance must feel like crap right now, knowing their so called allies are selling them out to the woman who murdered their King 5 minutes ago.

I mean getting rid of Sylvanas is something some Zandalaris and Talanji will have mix feelings but clearly helping the alliance should be a big NO, same for Nelves but clearly the writers and devs wants to push the medan storyline but with the entire human race instead.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yes. That was then, this is now. The only reason blood elves are still horde is because of the players

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Siege of Zuldazar = Justified, reaction to the Horde
Purge of Dalaran = Justified, reaction to the Horde
Genn = Justified, stopped Sylvanas enslaving Val'kyr, which is good for everyone

I swear to fuck Alliance fans are insane. I guarantee if Orgrimmar had been flooded, y'all would say "Justified, reaction to Horde" even though thousands of innocent civilians would be killed. Because genocide is forgiveable as long as the Alliance does it.

[sillag]

looks like they are saving tyrande to be a raid boss in 8.3 if she isnt showing up here or the warfront. probably a parallel boss to sylvanas. i figured this when they both suddenly started using similar looking melee weapons

man i cant wait for jaina, thrall, baine, lor'themar and the rest of the honor crew to order us to go kill off everyone who still has any grievances in order to achieve world peace. the night elves are still mad about teldrassil? that wont do at all looks like we have no choice but to kill them all. if only they hadnt gone insane with all their talk about hope and justice. i cant believe sylvanas forced us to do this

of course we have to kill sylvanas too but dont worry sylvanas fans because there will be a secret sylvanas side of the quest just for you where you tell sylvanas they are coming to kill her and she tells you "okay but i want you to along with it when they come to kill me so we can see what they're up to". now you can participate in the raid to kill sylvanas safe in the knowledge that you're actually still on the warchief's side

this expansion is a joke jesus christ

[Melsiren]

I swear to fuck Alliance fans are insane. I guarantee if Orgrimmar had been flooded, y'all would say "Justified, reaction to Horde" even though thousands of innocent civilians would be killed. Because genocide is forgiveable as long as the Alliance does it.

You just finding out the Alliance is self righteous in 2019?

[KrakHed]

I swear to fuck Alliance fans are insane. I guarantee if Orgrimmar had been flooded, y'all would say "Justified, reaction to Horde" even though thousands of innocent civilians would be killed. Because genocide is forgiveable as long as the Alliance does it.

What genocide? The Alliance has never done any such thing.

And yes, it would be justified. Orgrimmar is a military base full of hostile soldiers engaged in high-scale conflict with the Alliance, willing to nuke cities into oblivion. Responding in kind is justified. The Alliance didn't escalate things to that point.

If you don't want that shit you don't start that shit. You play with gloves on if you want to be treated with gloves. If you jump to genocide, you can't whine that the enemy doesn't roll over and die for you and instead fights back.

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You just finding out the Alliance is self righteous in 2019?

They're no more self-righteous than the Horde.

[Moonrage]

Yes, but Shandris is a simple commander while Thalyssra is Suramars first arcanist.
It's not surprising that she knows about that stuff.

She's the general of the sentinel army, that's not just 'a simple commander'. As stated before, she can call upon the powers of Elune as well, (might want to google that vid of her wrecking Orgrimmar way back in the day).

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eh yeah.

An arcanist would probably study a lot of stuff, yes.

So far Thalyssra hasn't really been shown to be incredibly powerful, justified considering she's been sitting on her ass under a purple bubble for 10k years.

[Jastall]

I swear to fuck Alliance fans are insane. I guarantee if Orgrimmar had been flooded, y'all would say "Justified, reaction to Horde" even though thousands of innocent civilians would be killed. Because genocide is forgiveable as long as the Alliance does it.

I mean crying about innocent civilians right after Garrosh nuked Theramore and then hunted down said civilians so his Kor'kron could murder them for sport is kind of inane. Plus, you can be 100% certain that if it was Sylvanas with the Focusing Iris and the power to flood Stormwind or Ironforge, she would do it without the shadow of a second thought whereas Jaina needed to be enraged about Theramore and was convinced to back down. There's little moral equivalence here. Don't start nuking shit then whine about not being nuked back.

[Goldielocks]

They're no more self-righteous than the Horde.

Untrue, unless you're referring to Thrall's Horde. Garrosh and Sylvanas have a different view of how the Horde should be run. Self-righteous is about being superior morally, which Thrall was all about, and it's something Saurfang is fighting to get back.

[TheRevenantHero]

What genocide? The Alliance has never done any such thing.

And yes, it would be justified. Orgrimmar is a military base full of hostile soldiers engaged in high-scale conflict with the Alliance, willing to nuke cities into oblivion. Responding in kind is justified. The Alliance didn't escalate things to that point.

If you don't want that shit you don't start that shit. You play with gloves on if you want to be treated with gloves. If you jump to genocide, you can't whine that the enemy doesn't roll over and die for you and instead fights back.

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They're no more self-righteous than the Horde.

ORGRIMMAR IS A MOSTLY CIVILIAN CITY. Just because it's a fucking Horde city doesn't make it a military base. But thank you for proving my point.

[iamthedevil]

Add Siege of Zuldazar, Purge of Dalaran, Genn attacking the forsaken fleet out of the blue and Jaina trying to drown Orgrimmar twice on the list. More accurate.

Don't forget the slave camps!

[Wyrt]

So, it's MoP 2.0.

Yeah, not coming back for 8.2. Hire better writers, Blizzard.

Can't fucking stand Jaina anymore.

[Grazrug]

Yes. That was then, this is now. The only reason blood elves are still horde is because of the players

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Siege of Zuldazar = Justified, reaction to the Horde
Purge of Dalaran = Justified, reaction to the Horde
Genn = Justified, stopped Sylvanas enslaving Val'kyr, which is good for everyone

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I know I'll get an infaction or ban for this, but damn, the salty tears from Sylvanas fans in this thread is so satisfying my god. Should've chose the good side boys

Spoken like a true alliance main player. Feel yourself reported.

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ORGRIMMAR IS A MOSTLY CIVILIAN CITY. Just because it's a fucking Horde city doesn't make it a military base. But thank you for proving my point.

Alliance mains love to worship their self as ultimate best thing in existence so these arguments here are to be expected.

[Combatbutler]

I'm aware of that but... even Shandris did not know the exact details of the ritual and no one said it was forbidden, just dangerous.

The nightborne had the temple of elune right on their doorstep before the Sundering, it would be hardly surprising that they would be very familiar with pretty much all of the rituals practiced by the priesthood right on their doorstep.

[TheRevenantHero]

Notice I didn't say Jaina trying to flood Orgimmar was justified? But then, that was her actions alone, no one in the Alliance told her to do that.

Jaina literally started indiscriminately murdering blood elves all because a handful of them did something heinous. If you think that's justified then you're insane. As for "Nobody in the Alliance told her to do that", Alliance fans have no problem blaming the entire fucking Horde for the Vale of Eternal Blossoms despite that being the actions of Garrosh alone.

[Grazrug]

looks like they are saving tyrande to be a raid boss in 8.3 if she isnt showing up here or the warfront. probably a parallel boss to sylvanas. i figured this when they both suddenly started using similar looking melee weapons

man i cant wait for jaina, thrall, baine, lor'themar and the rest of the honor crew to order us to go kill off everyone who still has any grievances in order to achieve world peace. the night elves are still mad about teldrassil? that wont do at all looks like we have no choice but to kill them all. if only they hadnt gone insane with all their talk about hope and justice. i cant believe sylvanas forced us to do this

of course we have to kill sylvanas too but dont worry sylvanas fans because there will be a secret sylvanas side of the quest just for you where you tell sylvanas they are coming to kill her and she tells you "okay but i want you to along with it when they come to kill me so we can see what they're up to". now you can participate in the raid to kill sylvanas safe in the knowledge that you're actually still on the warchief's side

this expansion is a joke jesus christ

No. This expansion is how it looks when bad and alliance biased writing combined come together.

[KrakHed]

Untrue, unless you're referring to Thrall's Horde. Garrosh and Sylvanas have a different view of how the Horde should be run. Self-righteous is about being superior morally, which Thrall was all about, and it's something Saurfang is fighting to get back.

There's a difference between self-righteousness and morality. I've never seen anyone so self-righteous as Sylvanas supporters who justify everything with the flimsiest excuse. Also, Garrosh was self-righteous as fuck. The most self-righteous Warchief the Horde has ever had.

ORGRIMMAR IS A MOSTLY CIVILIAN CITY. Just because it's a fucking Horde city doesn't make it a military base. But thank you for proving my point.

They literally manufacture superweapons there and train soldiers. It is mostly a civilian city. Just like Theramore. And like Theramore, it's a 100% legitimate military target, if you want to escalate the war to the point where nuking cities is understood to be on the table. That's just not a very smart idea.

The Horde escalated the war, and so they reap the consequences. That includes a few dead civilians here and there. If you're scared of dead civilians, you shouldn't escalate things to that point. But Teldrassil happened, and now practically any option is on the strategic table, because nothing is more extreme than what has already happened.

[Hellspawn]

The nightborne had the temple of elune right on their doorstep before the Sundering, it would be hardly surprising that they would be very familiar with pretty much all of the rituals practiced by the priesthood right on their doorstep.

Well highborn never cared much for Elune and in Suramar they don't seem to care much about Elune.

But sure she could figure it out somehow after it happened, still it would be interesting why its forbidden... but its probably because you can die during the ritual (or because it sounds cool).

Jaina literally started indiscriminately murdering blood elves all because a handful of them did something heinous. If you think that's justified then you're insane. As for "Nobody in the Alliance told her to do that", Alliance fans have no problem blaming the entire fucking Horde for the Vale of Eternal Blossoms despite that being the actions of Garrosh alone.

The difference is that Garrosh was the warchief while Jaina did not even had an official rank inside of the alliance at that point. Garrosh escalated over time and most of the Horde did not ask any question... just like it is now with Sylvanas.