(SPOILERS!!!) 8.2 PTR summary

[Super Dickmann]

Garrosh did everything wrong.

Not only did Garrosh have an actual motive, succeed a fair deal, be the end boss of his own villain batting expansion and not be an old god puppet but control the remains of the most powerful old god, but the act of killing him was so dishonorable that it forced Green Jesus into depression for a whole expansion before he was inflicted on us again.

[Sting]

This fucking story smh

[Jastall]

It came far earlier than that. Notably during Wrath where Lich King and the Scourge were untouchable by Yogg and Saronite couldn't corrupt them. There has also not really been any case (at least that I know of) where undead has been corrupted by Old Gods. But the argument to this is that we really don't know if it Lich King was the special case to being immune to Old Gods or if it was undeath itself. We'll have to wait and see for a clearer answer.

The Ghouls mining Saronite were resistant to Old God corruption, but not immnue. They eventually went insane as well if memory serves, which is impressive considering they were mindless.

Also there are undead in the Twilight's Hammer and G'huun both uses and raises tons of undead. Undead may be a bit more resistant to the Old Gods than standard flesh and blood creatures, but if beings of stone and steel can be subverted by the Void I really don't see why the undead, especially free-willed ones, would be so special as to be immune, let alone feared by the Void which is supremely unlikely considering N'zoth has the PC deliver the dagger which housed Xal'atah to Sylvanas herself in order to manipulate her.

[Arrashi]

The Ghouls mining Saronite were resistant to Old God corruption, but not immnue. They eventually went insane as well if memory serves, which is impressive considering they were mindless.

Also there are undead in the Twilight's Hammer and G'huun both uses and raises tons of undead. Undead may be a bit more resistant to the Old Gods than standard flesh and blood creatures, but if beings of stone and steel can be subverted by the Void I really don't see why the undead, especially free-willed ones, would be so special as to be immune, let alone feared by the Void which is supremely unlikely considering N'zoth has the PC deliver the dagger which housed Xal'atah to Sylvanas herself in order to manipulate her.

Probably because those "ghouls" were living slaves (for whatever reason did scourge kept living slaves - i don't know).

[Gann Stonespire]

Im wondering, do all these "Baine and Saurfang are traitors, kill them!!!!!"-fanboys realize that Sylvanas herself disobeyed at least one direct order from WARCHIEF Garrosh in Cata? You know, when he told her "Dont use the blight, bitch", and the very next quest she said "Screw him" and used it anyway? Which makes her also a traitor to the horde.
Not saying Baine is a good character or Saurfang has been written any good this addon, but Sylvanas is as much a traitor to the horde as they are, since Cata.

Remember Baine has been a traitor since Tides of War where he broke an oath to the Horde and allowed the tauren to be killed by Alliance soldiers by exiling the tauren defending the Great Gate and the tauren civilians in the barrens.

Baine is a traitor under every definition.

[zlygork]

Remember Baine has been a traitor since Tides of War where he broke an oath to the Horde and allowed the tauren to be killed by Alliance soldiers by exiling the tauren defending the Great Gate and the tauren civilians in the barrens.

Baine is a traitor under every definition.

Remember that Sylvanas is a traitor to the horde by assisting the alliance in Dethroning her warchief, Garrosh Hellscream. Just mentioning it here.

[Shibito]

Yes. That was then, this is now. The only reason blood elves are still horde is because of the players

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Siege of Zuldazar = Justified, reaction to the Horde
Purge of Dalaran = Justified, reaction to the Horde
Genn = Justified, stopped Sylvanas enslaving Val'kyr, which is good for everyone

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I know I'll get an infaction or ban for this, but damn, the salty tears from Sylvanas fans in this thread is so satisfying my god. Should've chose the good side boys

Ah the cries of alliance fanboys that are still whining about high elves and sylvanas

[Jastall]

Not only did Garrosh have an actual motive, succeed a fair deal, be the end boss of his own villain batting expansion and not be an old god puppet but control the remains of the most powerful old god, but the act of killing him was so dishonorable that it forced Green Jesus into depression for a whole expansion before he was inflicted on us again.

Perhaps, but he still died a petulant child's death, blaming the bitter jackass he knowingly became on everyone but himself and ultimately saw both the pure Hordes he wanted to create either rebel against his rule or collapse into infighting and demonic corruption, such that the struggling remnants needed the help of the so-called unpure Horde to survive a bunch of angry space goats that the Orcs used to enjoy as target practice.

Yeah, he had more success than Sylvanas as Warchief... but considering she's getting schooled by a teenage pacifist in a war, that's not a very high bar. His legacy is still one of abject failure all told, his only victory being undone as Thrall comes back.

[Houle]

Yes and do you even know what the difference is between Baine/Saufang treason and Sylvanas disobeying an order.

If Saurfang and Baine didn't betray the warchief they'd still be leading their people and likely even winning a war. If Sylvanas obeyed Garrosh then his plan to wipe out the forsaken would have gone through and there'd be no more Forsaken. It's almost as if reasons why matter.

The way Blizzard are now portraying Horde leaders are basically having them at a point they'd look at Allied actions in WW2 and scream dishonorable at them. Outside of things that are impossible in real world the Allies did everything Sylvanas had including bombing citizen areas in cities to kill as many people as possible just because.

Lol. You are really trying to compare this to WW2? Loooool. WoWs story is far too stupid at this point to be compared with real life mate. The character don't act like anyone in real life would. If you don't see this then i can't help you.
Also, Sylvanas didn't just disobey an order. In MoP she was literally part of an open revolt against the acting warchief of that time. Its the exact same situation now, only this time people like you defend her because she is an hot elf, not an orc.

[Kallisto]

Lol. You are really trying to compare this to WW2? Loooool. WoWs story is far too stupid at this point to be compared with real life mate. The character don't act like anyone in real life would. If you don't see this then i can't help you.
Also, Sylvanas didn't just disobey an order. In MoP she was literally part of an open revolt against the acting warchief of that time. Its the exact same situation now, only this time people like you defend her because she is an hot elf, not an orc.

SImply put what's the difference to firebombing of Darnassus = 1 city and the firebombing of civilian areas on purpose of Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Frankfurt. Or the use of Atomic weapons on civilian areas of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

That's what war is. Not some invasion against some 3rd world country that capitulates in the week like Iraq.

Also Garrosh tried to wipe out the forsaken. She had every reason to rebel. Sylvanas has no tried to wipe out any horde species.

[Shampro]

Remember that Sylvanas is a traitor to the horde by assisting the alliance in Dethroning her warchief, Garrosh Hellscream. Just mentioning it here.

Sylvanas has not expelled people that weren't Forsaken or created ''her True Horde'', Garrosh did. It doesn't matter how much you try to defend them, they're traitors through and through. Sylvanas wasn't part of Garrosh' True Horde, remember, this is the faction that he established in the second half of MoP. The people betraying her to grovel at the Alliance are, or were supposed to be part of the only Horde that currently exist.

Hope it clears it up a bit for you.

[Houle]

SImply put what's the difference to firebombing of Darnassus = 1 city and the firebombing of civilian areas on purpose of Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo, Frankfurt. Or the use of Atomic weapons on civilian areas of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

That's what war is. Not some invasion against some 3rd world country that capitulates in the week like Iraq.

Also Garrosh tried to wipe out the forsaken. She had every reason to rebel. Sylvanas has no tried to wipe out any horde species.

No, she is just spraying her own troops with blight when its suits her, and shoots her own forsaken dead in masses when they dont come running to her without one second of hestation

[Kallisto]

No, she is just spraying her own troops with blight when its suits her

Generals put people on suicide missions as well. Or should we prolong wars if it means a few less people die now.

What is more right. Few thousand blighted without deus ex jaina but war over and more peopel live

or

prolonged war in which many more die because peopel are too sensitive to end quickly.

[Houle]

You mean the war she started?
She is responsible for everyone who died in that war, because she freakin started it. Saying "She just wants to end the war" doesn't justify shit when she's the one and only reason there is war in the first place.
She is literally killing her own race in the novel, and many, many other members of the other horde races with blight.
Garrosh started a war against the alliance because he wanted, and then started killing members of the horde along the way. Sylvanas started a war against the alliance because she wanted, and then started killing members of the horde along the way.
The only difference between Garrosh and her is that Garrosh cared about his own race and wasn't stupid as hell, while she is an hot elf chick. In other words, the only difference is that Garrosh was an interesting character with a proper motivation

[Syegfryed]

Yes and do you even know what the difference is between Baine/Saufang treason and Sylvanas disobeying an order.

disobey order is treason.

If Saurfang and Baine didn't betray the warchief they'd still be leading their people and likely even winning a war.

we are losing regardless of the "treasons" Baine "betrayed" her after we receive enws of losing the war, wwe can argue that if they didn't "betray" her we would be doomed way soon

If Sylvanas obeyed Garrosh then his plan to wipe out the forsaken would have gone through and there'd be no more Forsaken. It's almost as if reasons why matter.

Or we could have conquer guilneas and made thata port, like the plan( who didn't include wipe out forsaken)

The way Blizzard are now portraying Horde leaders are basically having them at a point they'd look at Allied actions in WW2 and scream dishonorable at them. Outside of things that are impossible in real world the Allies did everything Sylvanas had including bombing citizen areas in cities to kill as many people as possible just because.

i mean, if we are gonna take ww2 as model, some can argue she is Hitler, and the meme just get stronger

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Garrosh did everything wrong.

the only thing he did wrong was to love his people too much

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Sylvanas has not expelled people that weren't Forsaken or created ''her True Horde'', Garrosh did.

well, she didn't expelled people, but she kill people who weren't her "true forsaken" too

And he only expelled then when they rebel against him

It doesn't matter how much you try to defend them, they're traitors through and through.

Traitors betraying traitors is all i see

[Shampro]

Or we could have conquer guilneas and made thata port, like the plan( who didn't include wipe out forsaken)

Shows how much you know about the Story, Garrosh wanted to weed out the Forsaken while simultaneously attacking Gilneas, and Sylvanas was having non of his shit, hence the Blight. Anything else you need clarification on?

the only thing he did wrong was to love his people too much

Nice meme.

[omeomorfismo]

No, she is just spraying her own troops with blight when its suits her, and shoots her own forsaken dead in masses when they dont come running to her without one second of hestation

funny way to describe more or less 12 deads many of which politicians that litterally defected to the most dangerous entity for the forsakens

[Kallisto]

Or we could have conquer guilneas and made thata port, like the plan( who didn't include wipe out forsaken)

Or we could do what we should do when discussing lore. Read actual lore from lore based areas. You know like Edge of night which shows Garrosh's plan. Win in Gilneas while having the forsaken basically destroyed so the alliance can clean up the rest. After that happens he brings in his orcs to clean up the Alliance and taking all the glory for himself. Or we going to ignore where the real lore is?

i mean, if we are gonna take ww2 as model, some can argue she is Hitler, and the meme just get stronger

Well I don't see her bringing up other races together and putting them into camps for the sake of killing now do you? The horde war machine is acting as like any total war machine in human 20th century. Basically bombing anything it comes into contact with that is linked to the enemy nation. If anything the ones who are out of place are the alliance and other horde leaders who are instead of acting like leaders that would have existed in basically medieval times are acting like they are 21st century leaders fighting a skirmish conflict.

well, she didn't expelled people, but she kill people who weren't her "true forsaken" too

The only forsaken she has killed were those who were defecting to a pretender to the throne. Something any monarch in the history of ever pre WW2 would have done without a moment of hesitation.

[Syegfryed]

Shows how much you know about the Story, Garrosh wanted to weed out the Forsaken while simultaneously attacking Gilneas, and Sylvanas was having non of his shit, hence the Blight. Anything else you need clarification on?

If you actually read the book you will se he had no intent to wipe out the forsaken, just use then to conquer guilneas, and would throw then at the gates with full strength since unlike the living, they could endure.

She disobey a direct order, thus she is a traitor, need more clarification?

Nice meme.

i know that.

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Or we could do what we should do when discussing lore. Read actual lore from lore based areas. You know like Edge of night which shows Garrosh's plan. Win in Gilneas while having the forsaken basically destroyed so the alliance can clean up the rest. After that happens he brings in his orcs to clean up the Alliance and taking all the glory for himself. Or we going to ignore where the real lore is?

in the book Garrosh intend was never to wipe out the forsaken.

If garrosh want to wipe then out he could do it later, and he didn't it

Well I don't see her bringing up other races together and putting them into camps for the sake of killing now do you?

with her record with living experiments? give time and she could do exactly that, rly nothing surprise me.

The only forsaken she has killed were those who were defecting to a pretender to the throne. Something any monarch in the history of ever pre WW2 would have done without a moment of hesitation.

she killed the whatever council because they didn't want her vision of eternal life, she killed the ones who were there to see their families, and none of then were defecting, but she though they would do, in the future, thats an act of a maniac monarch

[Shampro]

Or we could do what we should do when discussing lore. Read actual lore from lore based areas. You know like Edge of night which shows Garrosh's plan. Win in Gilneas while having the forsaken basically destroyed so the alliance can clean up the rest. After that happens he brings in his orcs to clean up the Alliance and taking all the glory for himself. Or we going to ignore where the real lore is?

He keeps saying ''in the book'' but never posts any actual citation & source, while Edge of Night strictly says what his plan for the Forsaken people was. There's fanboys for everything, but it's funny how much of a Garrosh fanboy he is. I mean, it's literally right there lmao.