[Spoilers] All the horde leaders are terrible

[Overlordd]

It was, though. They betrayed Dalaran for Garrosh.

So Jaina was just free to use Dalaran to lock the Divine Bell in Teldrassil? Hypocrite.

[Mehrunes]

Let's even ignore Ashenvale (though the OP is right that Thrall settled there before even meeting the Night Elves is right and the enlightened people harping about the alliance with them that hasn't even existed at the time are flat out wrong), there's still Mulgore which has plenty of free real estate or areas like Feralas or even Dustwallow. Thrall deliberately chose a barren shithole because his human upbringing fried his brain and infected him with green guilt and human potential.

What joy is in this curse? lEts gIvE it To everYoNE!!

This is, has always been and will forever continue to be fallactious bullshit. Sylvanas had to refocus her life after Arthas was killed and that included her changing her opinion on undeath. We have numerous sources on her no longer considering it a joyless curse, both in and out of game. She flat out talks about how undeath is superior to living on some occasions. Desperately clinging to her old opinions as if opinions never change is all sorts of wrong.

[united]

Someone got paid to write this garbage, let that sink in.

[Combatbutler]

The Orcs were refugees, they had to settle on what land they could that didn't belong to another state, especially one that they had just fought alongside against the Burning Legion and at the time, the Night Elves were more than a match for the Orcs. Just because you're a refugee doesn't give you the right to go in and take over someone else's home.

But they did just that regardless, the orcs drove off the Quilboar and butchered most of them to build their nation.

[Rhlor]

I hear everyone giving Sylvanas sas, but come on they all suck

Thrall? Oh yeah, he let his people starve in a desert and chose the harshest place on Azeroth for his people to settle in. Why? Becaue he wanted his people to suffer for what the did during the war. Yeah never mind that the massacre wasnt even their fault. Ashenvale was packed with food and space, but he let his people suffer regardless. Then he appoints Garrosh and leaves, even though Garrosh begs him to reconsider and says hes not ready. Right after, Cairne and Voljin Turn on him. Great job.

Saurfang? He is a hypocrite. His Concept of honor is stupid. In a good war, its revealed that SAURFANG was the one who orchestrated the war of thorns. Alright, so hiring hundreads of assassins and poisoning the food supply of the enemy, butchering your way across all of ashenvale using lies and subterfuge and killing civilians unprovoked. Yeah no thats honorable, but helping his warchief from being killed is dishonorable. And what then? He betrays the entire horde. His reasoning is because of Sylvanas and Lordaeron, WHEN THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT KILLED ATLEAST AS MANY IN THE WAR OF THORNS

Baine? He fucking delievers the horde to the alliance YET AGAIN on a silver platter. He sent a piece of his own horn to the alliance, he collaborated with them instead of his own allies during the siege of Orgrimmar. Yeah people bring up Taurajo alot but come on it has legitemacy. Why did he even exile his people wanting revenge, are you kidding me? What kind of leader just says "No no, It was a legitimate target, just kill my people". There are dwarves wiping out entire tribes in the barrens, Balistas lined up at the great game, and he does nothing. Had it been Carine he would have marched from mulgore to dusthallow marsh untill every single alliance soldier was wiped out.

Lor'Themar?
"Were it not for the Horde, the remaining sin'dorei might have died out against the Scourge." NO. It was the forsaken that helped you. Remember the ghostlands and the tranquillen? You werent let into the horde until AFTER the forsaken has helped you with the remaining scourge
"Garrosh nearly severed the bond between us, but in the end it held strong." NO. You almost defected to the alliance and betrayed the horde.
Serioulsy Lor'themar just shut up

Voljin didnt get a chance to be terrible, but he ordered the unprovoked attack on Ashran, and he apologised to jaina about the purge of dalaran, agreeing that butchering the sunreavers was justified

Seriously they all suck. Gallywix is terrible too, but atleast he KNOWS he is terrible which makes him less back than the others. The horde is doomed and so is the lore

1) sylvanas blackmail to lor'themar reads in the shadow of the sun
2) and yes it was the fault of garrosh it was all part of the plan

[Overlordd]

But they did just that regardless, the orcs drove off the Quilboar and butchered most of them to build their nation.

So did the humans with trolls. The elves with trolls. The forsaken with the remaining living humans. The dwarves with the trolls and troggs.

[Combatbutler]

So did the humans with trolls. The elves with trolls. The forsaken with the remaining living humans. The dwarves with the trolls and troggs.

Everyone does it, but people going on about the race I like didn't do shit is just plain wrong, each and every race in the wow universe has done and still does pretty despicable shit on a daily basis.

[Zandalariprelate]

true
many horde don't care about Sylv, they just hate what's coming next

Amen bro, amen

[tromage2]

Blizzard is working hard to make me dislike my faction more and more.
At any moment they need to pick a side they run over to the Alliance lover side.

The Horde is full of retarted Traitors.

Currently not playing alot anymore but when i see the Horde story its a good thing that i dont since would get annoyed all the time.
In Cata we still had the feeling we where the Horde fighting against enemies of the Horde Alliance and those outside the faction war.
But we followed the Warchief and had faction pride, now the Horde is a messy crap faction. No structure or thing that binds the races together.

I away said it and still do it: The Horde died with Garrosh.
And basicly my Warcraft died in MoP.

[Minikin]

Let's even ignore Ashenvale (though the OP is right that Thrall settled there before even meeting the Night Elves is right and the enlightened people harping about the alliance with them that hasn't even existed at the time are flat out wrong), there's still Mulgore which has plenty of free real estate or areas like Feralas or even Dustwallow. Thrall deliberately chose a barren shithole because his human upbringing fried his brain and infected him with green guilt and human potential.




This is, has always been and will forever continue to be fallactious bullshit. Sylvanas had to refocus her life after Arthas was killed and that included her changing her opinion on undeath. We have numerous sources on her no longer considering it a joyless curse, both in and out of game. She flat out talks about how undeath is superior to living on some occasions. Desperately clinging to her old opinions as if opinions never change is all sorts of wrong.

yes of course, how dare I disagree with the opinion of overlord sylvanas on what is best for everyone. obviously if her highness thinks something is a curse today its a curse and if she thinks its a cupcake tomorrow well damn it, its a cupcake now! not everyone is completely enthralled by the ever self sacrificing dark lady.

lol @ refocus. She offs herself, finds out the afterlife for a zombie is absolute hell (go figure) and does everything in her power to do otherwise, BY giving everyone the same affliction.

[Aeula]

All the Horde leaders need to die. It’s the only way we can truly get a fresh start as a faction.

Put the player in charge of their race (Or replace the old leaders with less developed characters) and shift the focus of the story from major characters to lore.

[Minikin]

I'm curious, is there such a thing as a civilain in orc society? They used to have pretty spartan tradition, where orcs kill talbuks to prove themselves. This still holds true in the current orc society, albeit with different animals. They carry a mantra of "Strength and Honor" aswell, which should indicate that orcs are still warriors, no matter what else they do.

Nah not in the sense of azeroth civilians, i dont think they have it that way. Id say their old would be civilians, id want to say cripples too but it looks like (based on gul'dans cinematic) they arent part of a clan thus wouldnt really count towards an offense or defense force. but thats part of the story basically. As in a human would look at orcish rites of passage as barbaric, while an orc would look at a human farming or working as weakness. In the end though, humans didnt blow up azeroth and end up on draenor, its the other way around.

[reploid]

Saurfang was pretty good, but the writers ruined him post MOP. Garrosh was pretty good, but the writers ruined him post Cata. Sylvanas was pretty good, but the writers ruined her post Legion. Lor[themar was ruined the second they decided to make him more than a common NPC. All the rest have always sucked.

[Onvious]

All the Horde leaders need to die. It’s the only way we can truly get a fresh start as a faction.

Put the player in charge of their race (Or replace the old leaders with less developed characters) and shift the focus of the story from major characters to lore.

imho, not just horde leader but all leaders need to die.

[ls-]

Yeah, it's brought up MANY times since the beginning of the Legion.

It's a major concern for many Horde players who're interested in lore that there's pretty much no proper Warchief candidate among current racial leaders. Pre-8.2 Lor'thermar was prob the the most adequate of them all, but now he's hit w/ a retcon/amnesia bat, previously, his biggest flaw was that while being a capable leader, he didn't really want to rule even over his own people, so being the leader of the Horde would def be against his believes. Now even he's gone.

In general, the story of the Horde over the past 2 xpacks, including related books, is just a mess. Even Sylvanas went from not wanting to be the Warchief because it didn't allow her to do the things she used to do, she very much preferred to act from the shadows and to not be in front of everyone's eyes, to being proud of being the female leader who's above all those pesky males. The same applies to HonourSaurfrang whose downfall started in the Legion, Baine became a joke in Cata, and there's no improvement in sight, etc.

It really feels that the Horde is just there to allow the Alliance to feel good about themselves, because Blizz need to develop Anduin into the God-King he's destined to become, so he needs rivals he will outsmart, he needs enemies he will defeat, he needs obstacles he will overcome. And the most hilarious part about it all is that Ally players don't really get to see that much either, from their pov it's just the story of the Horde, while from the Horde's pov it's a story of them and their leaders being support characters and/or mouthpieces for the Ally leadership.

Faction pride, my ass...

[Ragu4]

I bet they're making the Horde lore so bad that this will even out the player count between factions by having some players switch from Horde to Alliance lmao.

[Asrialol]

Ayyyy another original "Blizzard can't write" thread. We needed this.

[Grazrug]

So did the humans with trolls. The elves with trolls. The forsaken with the remaining living humans. The dwarves with the trolls and troggs.

So the Trolls did nothing wrong and Alliance should leave their lands? I'm fine with that.

- - - Updated - - -

Saurfang was pretty good, but the writers ruined him post MOP. Garrosh was pretty good, but the writers ruined him post Cata. Sylvanas was pretty good, but the writers ruined her post Legion. Lor[themar was ruined the second they decided to make him more than a common NPC. All the rest have always sucked.

They turned Lor'themar from being a capable leader into another sucker for human potential and bending his back for the Alliance. It's a shame.

[tromage2]

Blizzard at this point should idd kill all Horde racial leaders and do a hard reset in the faction.
Horde is full of traitors, weaklings, arrogant and single minded characters.

The whole Horde feel and that pride and honor would bind the Horde races together is gone.
The damage that the blizzard lore team did to the Horde since the Garrosh is a villian plot cant be fixed.
I think blizzard thinks they can fix the Horde with Thrall but it will do nothing about the mess they created.

[Aeula]

imho, not just horde leader but all leaders need to die.

I can agree there.