Why is apotheosis so bad?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

> states your opinion that something is bad

>> gets answers via other opinions

>>> proceeds to argue with answers

What the fuck did you expect @Heran when you engage in " discussion " the way you are in this thread ? I mean you aren 't the only one at fault but you 're driving the discussion

[Felshatner]

It's not bad, but the GCD thing makes it more work to use and I almost always take Light of the Naaru instead. These two talents are so similar that I expect we will lose one in the next expansion. I hope they keep LotN and put something else in Apotheosis's slot.

[Rife]

Funny how someone suggests that the worst healer in M+ gets a buff to a talent that might make them better in M+ and the majority of replies argue why that would be either bad or why its unneeded. Ironic.

When everyone who plays M+ knows Holy Priests are a literal joke, why do people on the forums argue against buffing them?

Is it really so hard to understand that Holy Priests in raids are carried by Salvation and Hymn which are both trash in M+? Inb4 someone argues that it makes sense for Holy Priests to be strong in raids but weak in M+ when Rdruids are currently kings of M+ and are solidly middle of the pack for raids.

People in this thread need to start comparing Holy Priests to other healers rather than to their own notion of what a healer should or should not be able to do. If other healers get a powerful CD talent as an option why is Holy Priests version garbage?

Why does the spec even have dead talents for M+ when other healing specs have none?

[Caus]

Why does the spec even have dead talents for M+ when other healing specs have none?

This part, is why noone takes what you say seriously, as it just proves that youre clueless.

[Atharaxie]

This part, is why noone takes what you say seriously, as it just proves that youre clueless.

The rest was true but some people choose to concentrate on irrelevant details. Holy is worst healing spec in mythic+ ; Apotheosis is aimed at M+ (or ten man raid) ; Apotheosis mechanic is wrong/slow for M+ ; hence apotheosis is bad.

[Tyrilion]

I love Apotheosis, I always find it a great oh shit button, GCd doesn't really bother me, I make sure both holy words are on CD and then Pop Apoth while my echo of lights are keeping everyone stable, I'm not sure if is the correct way to play it as I'm new to holy just getting in to +10s and 11s atm, but its what works for me.

I've never found Holy to be unwanted either, below 12 it's instant inv as all healers are pretty on par with each other bar druids who are insane atm, and have been since pre legion :P although I've been asked what spec I am to make sure I'm not disc, and I've found disc to be a bit lacking and I prefer Holy in General.

[Rife]

This part, is why noone takes what you say seriously, as it just proves that youre clueless.

Yea all those useless Resto Druid talents.

The rest was true but some people choose to concentrate on irrelevant details. Holy is worst healing spec in mythic+ ; Apotheosis is aimed at M+ (or ten man raid) ; Apotheosis mechanic is wrong/slow for M+ ; hence apotheosis is bad.

This is beyond some peoples understanding. Literally too complicated to comprehend.

[anon5123]

Have you learned nothing from Legion? Blizzard hates Priests and gives them inferior versions of other healers' cooldowns.

Back in Legion, Tranquility was pretty much a direct upgrade to hpriest's Divine Hymn. It healed lot more, had a shorter cooldown, and you could move while channeling it.

[ryklin]

tbh, I've done up to 20s with my friend who is a holy priest, they definitely have issues (you CAN'T play with a lower tier tank that needs a lot of heals like a bear, basically has to be blood or warr as they require very little heals relative to others), he uses apotheosis almost all the time, although chastise stuns and psy scream and grip are all pretty great

and like, us the people he's playing with aren't good, Im often in my shitty boomkin os, and we often have an enh shaman, and we rarely have time to push on the good push weeks, dps or a fuckup wipe (definitely some wipes that I could've healed through in my resto ms though), I think it's still pretty realistic to hit 2.5k or higher considering my friend is going on 2.3k as a dedicated holy main and really doesn't put an insane amount of time in. Apoth is a pretty strong cd. And I do admit, I have to off-heal my ass off on a few fights too like galvazzt.

As to the actual op too, one of the big reasons blizz felt comfortable with the ascendance buff too was that shaman was fairly unpopular in pvp and 5mans and was getting a raid oriented nerf (spoutingspirits+ascendance) at the same time.

Yeah though I'd love to see something like apotheosis resets your most recently used holy word or recharges your currently active poms, outside of 30man heroics (lol) holy could definitely use a bit more stuff right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Have you learned nothing from Legion? Blizzard hates Priests and gives them inferior versions of other healers' cooldowns.

Back in Legion, Tranquility was pretty much a direct upgrade to hpriest's Divine Hymn. It healed lot more, had a shorter cooldown, and you could move while channeling it.

tbh, inner peace (the 2min cd talent) wasnt very good in late legion, it had some very major competition from germination and blossoms (basically turned mastery from dump stat to best stat by massive margins), if you were using it you basically should've been last on meters and in some shitty off-set full of haste-crit-vers gear, I think the last fight most people used it on was mistress and maybe imonar or kingorath, and when you factored in mastery ticks, hymn healed for more, and the 10% bonus heals made that gap even larger
druid tranq was definitely stronger in 5mans though where you might have 5+mastery stacks on every member, or in extreme raiding deep rooted proc situations though, and of course in 5mans, the delayed mastery tick healing from hymn is a huge disadvantage to more upfront healing

the biggest things that really fucked holy in legion was avatar progression

if anything the bigger thing druids had in legion was not being as dependent on cape and prydaz to live through shit so they could use velens with it, 6% dr from bear aff and legion frenzied regen were op as fuck, as well as displacer and moving tranq, and let alone legion abundance despite me being one of the few people to know how broken that was

also at least M+ is no longer as big on defensive cd's
in legion, my friend would have to straight rely on lucky desperate prayer procs for some bosses

[Simmias]

I've done 15 in time with friend groups. Pugs won't even take me because I'm a holy priest. I can get into a weekly 10 or so but if I apply for groups that are 12 or more, they don't want me. Some ask me if I'm disc or holy, I say holy and they don't invite me. Some invite me, inspect me and see that I'm holy and kick me after seeing I'm holy, telling me to respec to disc instead.

sounds like they know you're a bad healer so don't want you, lol.