Tinkerers - Are they coming, if so how.

[Teriz]

Yet they are still classes, right? Again, this is more proof of how classes and specs are designed in WoW. They are all offshoots of existing mechanics because of the way the game is homogenized.

Tinker would literally be designed the same way. All it would be is a tech themed skin on existing mechanics. You would still channel spells and cast bar and use and gain resource appropriately. Healers all use mana, and I doubt they will stray from that since that is how they balance healers.

Except Monks and Demon Hunters came after Warriors, Paladins, Enh Shaman, Feral Druids, DKs, and Rogues. There's only so many ways to skin a cat, so despite DHs and Monks having unique mechanics, them being melee was bound to give people a case of dejavu.

Necromancers and Dark Rangers would compound this issue because they're already in the class lineup. We already have a class that uses Necromancy and controls the dead, and we already have a class that fires magical arrows and is an undead and/or petless archer. Neither concept adds anything new to the class lineup.

Also don't underestimate the power of a theme. You have a Goblin riding inside a warframe using similar base mechanics to a Druid class, but giving them abilities like Buster Canon, Magnetic Armor, Self-Destruct or Turbocharged, and it will feel like an entirely new gameplay experience.

[Triceron]

Not really because we already have pretty much covered all the archetype of GDR classes


We have the one that use Fire School, Frost, Shadow, Holy, Nature.

The Dotter, the Ninja, the Pet Class, the Melee Juggernaut, the Ranged Sniper etc etc


We miss out the Supporter (Bard) and the Mechanical one

How did Demon Hunter fit in that? We needed the blind half demon?

Classes arent given to us based on what we need, otherwise we would have a bard and tech class before Demon Hunters. Would you agree?

But we didnt, so that pattern you have isnt applicable to playable classes. We will get what Blizzard gives us.

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Except Monks and Demon Hunters came after Warriors, Paladins, Enh Shaman, Feral Druids, DKs, and Rogues. There's only so many ways to skin a cat, so despite DHs and Monks having unique mechanics, them being melee was bound to give people a case of dejavu.

Necromancers and Dark Rangers would compound this issue because they're already in the class lineup. We already have a class that uses Necromancy and controls the dead, and we already have a class that fires magical arrows and is an undead and/or petless archer. Neither concept adds anything new to the class lineup.

Also don't underestimate the power of a theme. You have a Goblin riding inside a warframe using similar base mechanics to a Druid class, but giving them abilities like Buster Canon, Magnetic Armor, Self-Destruct or Turbocharged, and it will feel like an entirely new gameplay experience.

Summoning plague cauldrons that can LOS and spread AoE would be new gameplay too. As would a blood healing spec, lich form and spider swarms. Just saying.

Tinker is also very unique as a class, but honestly saying Tinker is unique doesnt mean a class like Monk and Demon Hunter are less unique even if they were criticized.

[Daikoku]

How did Demon Hunter fit in that? We needed the blind half demon?

Classes arent given to us based on what we need, otherwise we would have a bard and tech class before Demon Hunters. Would you agree?

But we didnt, so that pattern you have isnt applicable to playable classes. We will get what Blizzard gives us.

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Summoning plague cauldrons that can LOS and spread AoE would be new gameplay too. As would a blood healing spec, lich form and spider swarms. Just saying.

Tinker is also very unique as a class, but honestly saying Tinker is unique doesnt mean a class like Monk and Demon Hunter are less unique even if they were criticized.

You have to separate

> Classes that come from Classic Archetype ( the mage the warlock the thief/ninja the barbarian )

That is baseline for any RPG

And

> Classes that are already present in the game history, if there is one.

If WoW never had Warcraft 1/2/3 and was basically ex novo with WoW itself nobody would have been asked for a Demon Hunter, because he would never knew prior to WoW what a DH was.


Said that DH were planned for Vanilla or TBC according to some of the TBC devs because it was an iconic class , through Illidan.

Bard wouldn't fit BFA or to be precise the current WoW post Class Homogenization and Talent Tree Trimming.
Bard would have worked perfectly in Vanill-TBC where Hybrid Spec where something legit.

" This Class sucks ballz at dps/healing compared to X or Y but bring buffs and debuffs " it is basically a support in a MOBA.
Demon Hunter as """"class"""" were in War3 before Tinkers or Bard ( whatever is close to a Bard in War3 or WoW )


Blizzard will sure give us what they want but ATM we are already feed up with melee and the game is already a Melee of Warcraft in 99% of the aspect of the game plus there is Classic incoming so maybe Blizzard will go ham and try to give to the base both the most requested things they are begin asked for.

[Triceron]

Demon Hunter as """"class"""" were in War3 before Tinkers or Bard ( whatever is close to a Bard in War3 or WoW )

So are Necromancers, and they existed before Tinkers and Dark Rangers. Just like Priests and Shamans and Druids. Necromancer is the 4th missing caster unit.

Again, there are no dark healers so DR and Necro can fit that. Its not a reason to add a class, but it shows that there is room for it if so chosen.

I mean honestly, after Tinker is added, what class comes after? Bard? Nah. It would be Necro or Dark Ranger.

[Teriz]

Summoning plague cauldrons that can LOS and spread AoE would be new gameplay too. As would a blood healing spec, lich form and spider swarms. Just saying.

Except it wouldn't be. People would immediately say that this new Necromancer class is doing what the DK class already did, just utilizing a different delivery system. In addition, the main attraction of Necromancer is raising the dead. DKs already do that.

Tinker is also very unique as a class, but honestly saying Tinker is unique doesnt mean a class like Monk and Demon Hunter are less unique even if they were criticized.

Again, why is this Tinker unique? Because it doesn't exist in the class lineup. Necros and DRs already do.

[Daikoku]

So are Necromancers, and they existed before Tinkers and Dark Rangers. Just like Priests and Shamans and Druids.

But we never had an iconic NPC tied to that """class"""

You can try pointing out Kelthuzad but he was a sidekick and you can't really compare the players feedback to him to the one with Illidan or Arthas.

And infact we had DK due to Arthas.


As I said they picked the base core class like Mage Priest Druid Shaman Cleric Warrior Rogue and Warlocks.

DK Monks DH Tinker or whatever edgy cl as as you can think is already a step 2.0 for what we can identify as prestige class, isn't really a common class BUT is something going unique(?)

[Daikoku]

BTW for me a Tinker playstyle mix up

Rumble
Heimerdinger
Morales
Bjorntorb or whatever is the dwarf from OW

[Triceron]

But we never had an iconic NPC tied to that """class"""

You can try pointing out Kelthuzad but he was a sidekick and you can't really compare the players feedback to him to the one with Illidan or Arthas.

And infact we had DK due to Arthas.


As I said they picked the base core class like Mage Priest Druid Shaman Cleric Warrior Rogue and Warlocks.

DK Monks DH Tinker or whatever edgy cl as as you can think is already a step 2.0 for what we can identify as prestige class, isn't really a common class BUT is something going unique(?)

Chen was a sidekick to Rexxar.

Kel'thuzad is crazy popular, still. Heroes of the Storm gave him his own event to promote his arrival in the game. He was one of the most anticipated heroes to be added.

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Except it wouldn't be. People would immediately say that this new Necromancer class is doing what the DK class already did, just utilizing a different delivery system. In addition, the main attraction of Necromancer is raising the dead. DKs already do that.


Again, why is this Tinker unique? Because it doesn't exist in the class lineup. Necros and DRs already do.

People already say Tinkers are already what Engineering does. Its both a generalization, and I dont think we let those get i. The way of having new, fun, playable classes.

Honestly, any class can be playable so long as there is demand, and the gameplay design is fun.

I see Necromancer doing what Balance Druid had before Legion changed the way the spec worked. You lay down aoe traps, you make use of guardian summons, and you nuke down the enemy. That gameplay is fun and still works today. we

[Khaza-R]

I'm not claiming that racial limitations ALWAYS limit class population. As I stated, it works for DH. It fits the class lore. DH is the 5th most-played 120 class, which is great for the newest class. That wasn't much of a risk though. Belf is by far the most played Horde race and Nelf is #2 for Alliance. Gnomes and Goblins and Dwarves are a tiny fraction of that.

Tinkers are going to be a niche appeal to begin with. Steampunk design and using technology is not a popular class fantasy. Same goes for Monks and the Asian motiffs. Thats why that they the least popular class.

And if anything, Monks being so generic by being playable on almost every race probably did more harm than good.

[Directionalk9]

Monks had a HUGE disadvantage by starting at level 1 as well.

They might be least played, but I rarely run into someone who hates playing Monk, if they have it maxed, yes Imknow that’s anecdotal.

[Teriz]

Monks had a HUGE disadvantage by starting at level 1 as well.

They might be least played, but I rarely run into someone who hates playing Monk, if they have it maxed, yes Imknow that’s anecdotal.

I think Monks also suffered from a lack of familiarity with the WoW userbase. They kind of came out of nowhere, and a lot of people didn't know what to make of them. Keep in mind, we encountered DKs and DHs in the game before they became classes, but we didn't encounter Pandaren monks until MoP.

This could explain why there's so much Tinker stuff in BFA.

[Kellorion]

Panda could have been done like Allied races, encounter them now, interact with them, then play as them.
Go through a patch or 2 cycles, let them react to each side, then have the turtle show up and say well lets see how they handle this, let them decide to join either side or stay on the turtle or come to pandaria.

[Triceron]

Monks had a terrible introduction and the theme of their class really hurts them in the long run. Their animations are another huge problem. When people think of monks in games they think of a serious martial artist. That's not really what WoW's monk looks like. WoW monks just look like you took the pandaren stereotypes and made a class out of it. The attacks and lore of the class are both silly.

I remember leveling a monk in Legion and I gave up on it when I got to the class hall and realized that monks were just being treated as a joke. I wanted a serious story and instead I got beer jokes. Blizzard doesn't treat monks seriously and it shows so they have a stigma of being the joke class.

This is a big part of it. Monks dont feel impactful. They need a visual revamp or something.

I saw a monk class from some random korean mmo, and it made me WANT to play as a martial artist class, and i kept thinking WoW could use a martial artist class. I totally forgot monks existed, thats how bad it i.

[Teriz]

Tinkers shouldn't have the same issues as the Monk class did. For starters, people have gotten used to the idea of Goblin or Gnome piloting a mech in WoW, and the user-base appears to like the idea. Blackfuse was a well-received villain in SoO, and Mekkatorque on Broken Shore appeared to be well-received by the community at large.

In addition, a class that is capable of fighting inside a vehicle is quite unique and potentially a very strong visual. I could imagine people rolling the class despite disliking Gnomes and Goblins simply because you get to pilot a machine of death into combat.

[Triceron]

The monk didnt suffer from appeal or demand. There was significant amount of both. It was recognizeable as a rpg staple and as a Warcraft class. It suffered from Blizzards own himogenization. Monks didnt have the creative freedom that DKs benefitted from in wrath with the old talent system. Monks got introduced with the new talents and I think that hurt more than helped the leveling experience overall.

I think any new class today needs a long and hard consideration whether to start at lvl 1 or not to be popular.

[Teriz]

The monk didnt suffer from appeal or demand. There was significant amount of both. It was recognizeable as a rpg staple and as a Warcraft class. It suffered from Blizzards own himogenization. Monks didnt have the creative freedom that DKs benefitted from in wrath with the old talent system. Monks got introduced with the new talents and I think that hurt more than helped the leveling experience overall.

I think any new class today needs a long and hard consideration whether to start at lvl 1 or not to be popular.

Really? I don't remember seeing many threads asking for a Brewmaster or Monk class leading up to MoP.

I agree about the talents, but another big issue is that you couldn't level boost in MoP, so anyone who wanted to play a Monk alt and Raid had to slog through 90 levels.

[AngerFork]

Really? I don't remember seeing many threads asking for a Brewmaster or Monk class leading up to MoP.

I agree about the talents, but another big issue is that you couldn't level boost in MoP, so anyone who wanted to play a Monk alt and Raid had to slog through 90 levels.

Not Monk persay, but I remember quite a few threads asking for a Brewmaster and Pandaren largely in memory of what Chen Stormstout was in WC3.

Monks might have had some homogenization, but it definitely wasn't for lack of trying. Remember when they were proclaiming Fistweaving would be a valid healing style right out of the gate? Or when Blizz was planning to completely remove Auto Attack from Monks in favor of having them have more of an active feel?

For the record though, I do think starting at Tinker right at level 1 would be a big ask of players, particularly when you just encouraged them to get 8+ alts leveled up to unlock collectible Heritage Armor throughout the last expansion.

[Triceron]

Really? I don't remember seeing many threads asking for a Brewmaster or Monk class leading up to MoP.

I agree about the talents, but another big issue is that you couldn't level boost in MoP, so anyone who wanted to play a Monk alt and Raid had to slog through 90 levels.

Pandaren and brewmaster was asked for since vanilla. They had legitimately considered Pandaren playable at TBC even. Back then people asked for necromancers and runemasters too, mind you.