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  1. #1

    Sylvanas' Endgame

    Sylvanas in 8.2:
    "The threads we have woven with such care will soon be drawn together. The war is serving its purpose. Stay focused on the endgame. You know what is to come."

    Ogmot's Journal:
    Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.

    Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.

    She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!

    Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!

    Ogmot laugh too!


    My take is that we're going to Quel'thalas, to the Sunwell. Why I think we're going back there?

    First, Il'gynoth's whisper: "Its surface burns bright, masking the shadows bellow". The Sunwell is a fount of Light, but we also know it reacts to shadow. The belf heritage questline also shows the lantern glowing voidy after being dipped into the Sunwell.

    Second, void elves. I can't believe Blizzard is not going to do at least one story where they are important and get deep development, and 8.3 is the last chance for that. I also have the feeling Blizzard will set up an event that will create lots more of void elves, maybe even turn the high elves into void elves. This could be the way to turn the void elves into a true race, and a story about corrupting the Sunwell could fit that.

    Third, Sylvanas' story started in Quel'thalas, we've had several pararels of her to Arthas, it's kind of fitting that it ends in Quel'thalas, with her doing her best Arthas impression to date. Another thematic possibility behind it is that the expansion started with Sylvanas attacking one elf kingdom, and now is going to do the same to the other.

    But why would Sylvanas do this? Because she made a deal with a greater power. But I think Blizzard will throw a curveball and it won't be N'Zoth. Helya is my bet. Helya tricked Vol'jin into making Sylvanas warchief. Helya made Sylvanas learn of her existance so she, once warchief, would seek Helya for their pact. Sylvanas failing to capture Eyir made her indebted to Helya and desperate. Helya's death in Legion was a feint (from Blizzard) to make us forget her.

    But why would an entity of Death be working with the Old Gods/the Void? Who knows, maybe it isn't. Maybe her intent is to kill Azeroth and everyone in it, and that's why the Void is so afraid of Sylvanas.

    So, I'm thinking Sylvanas will go to Quel'thalas in the absence of Lor'themar, Alliance will attack because she's there and, during the fight, which will be the biggest battlefield of this war, Sylvanas will sneak to Quel'danas and do her stuff. When everyone realises what she did, it's too late.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Sylvanas in 8.2:


    Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.
    This line makes the prophecy being about sylvanas quite doubtful, there are only two ladies with void connection, who might fit that particular description, Alleria and Azshara, their followers are absolutely loyal, Sylvanas on the other hand has a rebellion on her hand.

  3. #3
    I can buy that the prophecy is about Sylvanas because the writers are hacks, but it'd fit better with Azshara. The naga trusted her to save them and she cheerily lets us go down to her land and kill them solely to achieve her goals. Even the ghosts are sure that Azshara will save them even as she sells them out to N'zoth so she can survive personally. Sylvanas is covered in dark swirlies, but she is being reelled against.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    This line makes the prophecy being about sylvanas quite doubtful, there are only two ladies with void connection, who might fit that particular description, Alleria and Azshara, their followers are absolutely loyal, Sylvanas on the other hand has a rebellion on her hand.
    The Void is not the only dark at work.

    And the Horde has pretty much done Sylvanas' bidding. By the time the rebellion picks up steam, she will be already at her endgame.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    The Void is not the only dark at work.

    And the Horde has pretty much done Sylvanas' bidding. By the time the rebellion picks up steam, she will be already at her endgame.
    Sylvanas has no unified force behind her, that is the point of the story being told so far. The horde simply did not follow her blindly, it could be Sylvanas but both Alleria and Azshara fit the description so much better, simply because those who follow these two have no doubts at all and can easily fit the other criteria of the prophecy.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Sylvanas has no unified force behind her, that is the point of the story being told so far. The horde simply did not follow her blindly, it could be Sylvanas but both Alleria and Azshara fit the description so much better, simply because those who follow these two have no doubts at all and can easily fit the other criteria of the prophecy.
    Aside from the forsaken, now that she got all the dissidents killed off in arathi.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    Aside from the forsaken, now that she got all the dissidents killed off in arathi.
    As I said it could fit Sylvanas, but it still fits Azshara and Alleria much better

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    As I said it could fit Sylvanas, but it still fits Azshara and Alleria better
    I wouldn't really say the velves following Alleria are sheep. It's mostly hero worship. Now Azshara, damn straight.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    I wouldn't really say the velves following Alleria are sheep. It's mostly hero worship. Now Azshara, damn straight.
    Following the path of the void in itself is already lunacy for a mortal and Alleria's teachings are literally all that stands between them and madness, they are already following in her footsteps and Alleria being mad would restore some semblance of the threat the void poses.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Following the path of the void in itself is already lunacy for a mortal and Alleria's teachings are literally all that stands between them and madness, they are already following in her footsteps and Alleria being mad would restore some semblance of the threat the void poses.
    Well remember, they were doing the void thing without her orders.. She stepped in because the idiots fucked up and were about to go completely nutters.

  11. #11
    I doubt is Alleria, she is too much on the sidetrack, she also did not do anything mentionable in BFA. Spotlight it on Azshara & Sylvanas. Also Sylvanas does more "guidance" then Azshara visible to the player so my bet is on her.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Sylvanas in 8.2:
    "The threads we have woven with such care will soon be drawn together. The war is serving its purpose. Stay focused on the endgame. You know what is to come."

    Ogmot's Journal:
    Ogmot sees lady wrapped in dark swirlies. She leads herd of blind sheep.

    Da sheepies follow her everplace she go. Do everthin she say. Never doubt lady.

    She guide dem over tall cliff! SPLAT SPLAT SPLAT! Stupid sheepies!

    Da crows get fat eatin da sheepflesh. Da lady laugh as crows eat!

    Ogmot laugh too!


    My take is that we're going to Quel'thalas, to the Sunwell. Why I think we're going back there?

    First, Il'gynoth's whisper: "Its surface burns bright, masking the shadows bellow". The Sunwell is a fount of Light, but we also know it reacts to shadow. The belf heritage questline also shows the lantern glowing voidy after being dipped into the Sunwell.

    Second, void elves. I can't believe Blizzard is not going to do at least one story where they are important and get deep development, and 8.3 is the last chance for that. I also have the feeling Blizzard will set up an event that will create lots more of void elves, maybe even turn the high elves into void elves. This could be the way to turn the void elves into a true race, and a story about corrupting the Sunwell could fit that.

    Third, Sylvanas' story started in Quel'thalas, we've had several pararels of her to Arthas, it's kind of fitting that it ends in Quel'thalas, with her doing her best Arthas impression to date. Another thematic possibility behind it is that the expansion started with Sylvanas attacking one elf kingdom, and now is going to do the same to the other.

    But why would Sylvanas do this? Because she made a deal with a greater power. But I think Blizzard will throw a curveball and it won't be N'Zoth. Helya is my bet. Helya tricked Vol'jin into making Sylvanas warchief. Helya made Sylvanas learn of her existance so she, once warchief, would seek Helya for their pact. Sylvanas failing to capture Eyir made her indebted to Helya and desperate. Helya's death in Legion was a feint (from Blizzard) to make us forget her.

    But why would an entity of Death be working with the Old Gods/the Void? Who knows, maybe it isn't. Maybe her intent is to kill Azeroth and everyone in it, and that's why the Void is so afraid of Sylvanas.

    So, I'm thinking Sylvanas will go to Quel'thalas in the absence of Lor'themar, Alliance will attack because she's there and, during the fight, which will be the biggest battlefield of this war, Sylvanas will sneak to Quel'danas and do her stuff. When everyone realises what she did, it's too late.
    may be talking about Azshara

  13. #13
    I think it could still be Sylvanas.

    It kinda makes sense when you pair it up with that snippet where Lor'themar says Sylvanas supposedly has the support of the people.

    Also it's true she leads us into a trap in Nazjatar, which corresponds with the bit about sheepies falling down a cliff bit.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Fahrad Wagner's Avatar
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    I'm definitely with OP about all of this. I believe the prophecy is about Sylvanas and that we're heading to a 8.3 patch focusing on Quel'Thalas and maybe another zone, such as the Dragon Isles... which were very close to Quel'Thalas in the original plans from WoW Vanilla.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Sylvanas has no unified force behind her, that is the point of the story being told so far. The horde simply did not follow her blindly, it could be Sylvanas but both Alleria and Azshara fit the description so much better, simply because those who follow these two have no doubts at all and can easily fit the other criteria of the prophecy.
    You say that but the Horde soldiers (and even Lor'themar who already betrayed her by that point to save Baine) literally load themselves on ships and go where Sylvanas tells them to. Then they are subjected to parting of the sea and I assume fall from almost a literal cliff (of water) on the rocks below.

    Alleria didn't do much "leading" or giving even the most basic of commands to her followers, leaving most of the Void Elf business to Umbric. I don't think she's ever even appeared since Lordaeron.

    And Azshara isn't referred to as "lady" and isn't surrounded by dark swirlies.

    Sylvanas, meanwhile, is authoriative and has hold not just over her Forsaken (who are fanatically loyal) but also the Blood Elves and other races of the Horde, to the point that Lor'themar hopes that his own people follow him to save the world from a greater evil instead of continuing the war and notes that the war still burns in the hearts of many in the Horde; among those followers might even be the player character. The prophecy is about the lady having a herd of sheep, there is nothing about there not being sheepherders disagreeing with her choice of direction for the sheep to go. Not to mention that she never discloses what her "endgame" is, making it a tall cliff over which her followers can't see their doom, and are thus blind to what awaits them. Also, her banshee form has literal dark swirlies around her.

  16. #16
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    Well remember, they were doing the void thing without her orders.. She stepped in because the idiots fucked up and were about to go completely nutters.
    In all fairness, she stepped in because the Alliance needed allies, and Umbric's early research had promising results. Things were on track for his outcasts, too, until a Void entity took the opportunity and corrupted the outcasts into void elves.

    Also, @Combatbulter, it's Locus-Walker's teachings, not Alleria's. Locus-Walker is definitely an X factor in all this, because even they tell us repeatedly we shouldn't trust them blindly; they're very open and honest about having ulterior motives from the get-go and they're only helping us because our goals and theirs currently coincide.

    On-topic: I'd say Ogmot's journal refers to Azshara, who has repeatedly sold out her people for personal gain, even as they fawningly march themselves off the metaphorical cliff for her. Her almost-supernatural charm over the Highborne is well-documented and one of the main reasons the War of the Ancients was so bloody, and part of why it took ten thousand years (and the Shattering of the world) for the night elves to accept mages among their number again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladier View Post
    Alleria didn't do much "leading" or giving even the most basic of commands to her followers, leaving most of the Void Elf business to Umbric. I don't think she's ever even appeared since Lordaeron.
    Alleria's been fairly active in the Alliance command structure during the War campaign, and also serves a gameplay purpose by being the one you talk to for war campaign upgrades.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I'm definitely with OP about all of this. I believe the prophecy is about Sylvanas and that we're heading to a 8.3 patch focusing on Quel'Thalas and maybe another zone, such as the Dragon Isles... which were very close to Quel'Thalas in the original plans from WoW Vanilla.
    That's an interesting insight. Dragon Isles in their original placement would make a final act in Quel'thalas even more interesting.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Alleria's been fairly active in the Alliance command structure during the War campaign, and also serves a gameplay purpose by being the one you talk to for war campaign upgrades.
    Oh right! I completely forgot about her the moment all the upgrades were finished, so forgettable was her involvement. I still don't remember her doing anything else, except for maybe technically participating in the hunt for the Blood Prince, offscreen. I remember what Falstad did during those quests more.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Alleria's been fairly active in the Alliance command structure during the War campaign, and also serves a gameplay purpose by being the one you talk to for war campaign upgrades.
    But she just leads some Alliance guys and is not very special in that regard. I would be really surprised if this referrers to her.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    Well remember, they were doing the void thing without her orders.. She stepped in because the idiots fucked up and were about to go completely nutters.
    And are now hanging on her every word about the void, believing it to be a power they can truly use.

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