Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannibalus View Post
    I think the team that figures out the lore for the game is too focused on gameplay and then the book writers have to fix their shit. And these devs keep fucking up patch after patch. You forgot for ex that in the Illidan questline Broxigar was fighting side by side with him where in the book he hated Illidan to the core for setting him on fire cause emo and some other reasons. The devs are either mentally handicapped or dont care too much. The main problem is US the players who just ride a neverending loop between hatred and stockholm syndrome, calling shit out and then accepting their excuses or even their arrogant behaviour like it happened with many interviews.
    .
    There are so many examples I didn't include, but I knew others would remember and add.. I didn't want to make a bigger wall of text, and wanted to allow others to bring up instnaces they remembered. You are right about all that.

    Whiles I understand its a big project etc, sometimes it's a glaring hole to miss out some people against certain enemies. Can you imagine, we go to Zin'Azshari, the night elf capital, and the very night elves barelyplay a role on the alliance.. I mean wtf?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    i agree, and i also dont give a shit. its just a game. play it and have fun, or dont. you care way too much about this shit.

    Infracted
    Tell me about it.. id o, I should know this by now, I should, but all I can see is how much ipotential it hasto be great, to be serialised in movies and tv shows, how the game experience could be so much better.. and remember how blizzard use to impress me with things they came out, but now the number of disappointemnts are getting larger than the number of WoW stuff.

    It's hrd to quit, but I have done it before.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    The problem of the alliance is called humans! the human potential makes the other races of the alliance have less development !!
    Totally agreed there, and they keep doing it even though they know fans who care about racial lore are mighty teased off, the night elf player population is almost as large as the human one.

    yet we get this crap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    They are severely limited because it's a game. Need to constantly create new big bad villains that can be taken out in the middle of their castle. That's why the story is bad, it's not like they can exercise a lot of creativity.
    Oh but they can. they can give Azeroth a few years break, set the next expansion decades in the future, .

    The stuff we level through is easily marked as the past.. so it can all feel more natural even without always giving preceise details of numbers, strategies and armies. They employ world class artists, musicians, programmers, people renowned for making good games to play.. why can't they do the same for writers?

    Look how many fans they've inspired to be passionate about stuff, who would actually find it a pleasure to dig through old material to make sure the lore is consistent or write stuff to fill in gaps and do the research.. I'd be more than happy to work for them to do that stuff myself, and assist world class writers they hire with content. I'm a creative mind too, who knows I could be a gem they uncover and develop in house.. they have a huge fan base to pull from, and it's not like quality writers and directors aren't out there.

  2. #62
    It does seem like Blizzard's writing team are struggling to create original characters or weave lore into the game itself. It's all delivered through in-game cut scenes that are incredibly limited in their scope, or cinematics that are really great but also limited in what they can do and how much they can put into them. Budget, really, is probably the biggest issue here so they need to scrounge and salvage and pack a whole lotta shit into one scene, so it makes no sense and looks terrible, or let a bunch of stuff fall to the wayside to focus solely on what they deem the most important or interesting storyline.

    Take BfA for example:

    They couldn't, for whatever reason, create an original villain or a suitable build-up to have something different from MoP (Horde on the defensive, Alliance internal struggle, Forsaken not being scourge 2.0 for example), so they scrounge up that storyline, Garroshed Sylvanas for a quick-fix villain and Martey'd the ever-loving sue out of Anduin to create a hero.

    They couldn't fully realize the effect of the new war on both factions, so they picked the humans as the mainstay for the Alliance and let the Nelf storyline fall somewhat to the wayside. Then they swapped out Saurfang/Baine for the MoP Vol'jin so the Horde had something of a 'good' guy side and they tossed the Forsaken lore and story under the bus to facilitate another Kor'Kron 'thugs of the corrupt Warchief', disposable Stormtroopers for players to kill en-mass during the 'honourable actions' scenes.

    They constantly have to 180 characters to try and give players something to relate to and push a hamfisted plot forward with the very limited resources they have: Jaina hating the Horde, Jaina wanting peace with the Horde. Sylvanas hating undeath and the scourge, Sylvanas suddenly loving undeath and scourge tactics. Genn having a burning hatred for Forsaken and to a degree the Horde (for good reason) suddenly changing his tune because Anduin said a thing.

    Those are just a few things that, to me, felt super jarring and made no sense in BfA. Some of the driving reasons why I dislike the story enough to have quit the game until it gets better. But I'm unsure if we can just chalk it up to "The writers are bad". I think there's a possibility that it's because the writers get much less support than we think. A smaller budget, more restrictions, a framework strictly dictated to them by pre-determined game-play and in-game systems and likely having a lot of their ideas and requests axed to re-direct resources to things like in-game store items, reworking the Azerite system, game-play balance etc.

    All of this is just supposition, of course, but I do work as a writer and I've had projects I was passionate about and put my heart-and-soul into ruined by 'upper-management' people needing to have their influence on it, for whatever reason. Try and keep in mind that, at the end of the day the writers don't have the final say on what WoW will be, and if the big-paycheck-boys in Blizzard decide "sylvanas iz raid boss nao lel" the writers will be forced to try and make that work.

    Best thing to do right now, I believe, is to vote with your wallets and tell Blizzard why you don't like the story as much a possible. Going after the writers just gives the big wallets at Blizzard an excuse to fire more people, and hire a smaller team with more restrictions because "It's always the creative departments fault".
    Last edited by Mirn; 2019-04-20 at 12:19 PM.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    But, isn't that like saying they only matter because the game is loosely (apparently, upon reading a thread anytime the lore forum pops up under recent) based around the books? I mean, that *is* what you're saying ha, but yea.

    As to not picking up a game because it followed a book or not, intriguing.
    .
    yeah. There are times I returned to wow largely because of the lore.

    Sure I liked it’s gameplay, but it’s not that the game styles were super fun, I knew what to expect roughly gameplay wise and I had done most of that in earlier years. It was not gameplay that brought me back. All gameplay and gameplay reputation ensure was that I knew I would enjoy it enough or be able to play with it, byt
    You have to understand. Once you’ve played it for x years, you aren’t coming back for gameplay sake. You come back for nostalgia, new zones or new lore.

    Many a time it is new lore, blood elf advancements, happenings.

    These are what motivate coming back and subscribing. If the gameplay fails to be engaging enough and fun enough, you simply unsubscribe after playing through. Resubscribe later if something interests you.

    If I had allied races or something like new class identities Rabenmoon and Mace were harping in about I’d be interested to hang around for those.

    Lore and features get me back to the game and keep my mind on Warcraft. The lore has to be good enough, interesting enough to keep psyched about the game.

    Gameplay however is what keeps me from unsubscribing. Then they have to give me good reason to perhaps try another character as in race or class. Which is why I expect new race class combos are coming. More allied races and if they are smart, do Mace’s class identity thing and let me play a blood elf botanist version of Druid or blood elf arcane elemntalist elven version of shaman.

    Without the story I would not have come back, without the gameplay I would not have stayed subbed. Without patches bringing new content there is only so much I can replay the same stuff even with a new race or class
    Last edited by EnigmAddict; 2019-04-20 at 09:22 PM.

  4. #64
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Warsong Gulch
    Posts
    7,501
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    Well this you really boiled down this thread to "I want more Night Elves in the main story". Night Elves had enough spotlight, so I don't agree with your points (Though I also agree that shoving humans into our faces constantly makes the story boring).
    this is what i read too

    its the problem with elves, for then, a lot is always too little, they will demand more and more every time.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    this is what i read too

    its the problem with elves, for then, a lot is always too little, they will demand more and more every time.
    What do you expect when it is an elf villain and an elven capital and zones this is happening? you don't see me demanding night elves play a role in Dazar'alor, Kul'tiras or Zuldazar, because it has little to nothing to do with them.

    Nor did you see me crying about their absence of major roles in Draenor or against the Lich king or in Pandaria - however in chasing Illidan, in Legion, against Azshar - ofc I expect them to be there and playing a major role

  6. #66
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Warsong Gulch
    Posts
    7,501
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    What do you expect when it is an elf villain and an elven capital and zones this is happening? you don't see me demanding night elves play a role in Dazar'alor, Kul'tiras or Zuldazar, because it has little to nothing to do with them.
    i don't? pretty sure there was topics asking for more elf in zandalar, i was there saying it would not make sense, and yet they do show there.

    elven capital city and there is all elves there, what more you want?

    Nor did you see me crying about their absence of major roles in Draenor or against the Lich king or in Pandaria - however in chasing Illidan, in Legion, against Azshar - ofc I expect them to be there and playing a major role
    but they did show up in those place regardless.

  7. #67
    added this really well summarised post from friendly in the front page:

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The writers say that the Horde didn't learn its lesson even thought its their own fucking choice to write it that way.


    They then go so far off the deep end with Teldrasil that no one would ever forgive or forget only to have the Alliance work with a cowardly Saurfang who's suicidal/regretful and therefore his entire plan of stomping the night elves all the way to Teldrassil is brushed over by everyone but one angry sentence from Shaw and the night elves.

    The Horde goes from trying to kill Jaina to willingly work with her, Saurfang screams "We don't want any trouble" when he's caught sneaking in Orgrimmar with Jaina and Shaw. and the Horde defends Jaina from sunreavers.

    The writing has never been worse, its best that you accept that regardless of side Blizzard at this point doesn't care about consistency, and I would REALLY like to know who the fuck they think they are pleasing with this story.


    Teldrassil was Blizzard's attempt to be dark and Game of Thronsey, which turns into a laughing stock when they chicken out and try to blame it all on Sylvanas, even when originally they tried to tell us "The person who burned it isn't who you would expect." It's going to be brushed over because the writers are beyond terrible, if they have the Alliance acknowledge Teldrassil this ruins their "Narrative" they are trying to push.

    "Alliance and Horde are meant to be friends."

    If the Alliance demands and pursues revenge/justice, then the Writers have a meltdown, suddenly Horde can begin to justify Sylvanas's "They will try to break us" mantra, If Sylvanas gains justification then not everyone will want to listen to the Wisdom of Anduin. Of course Teldrassil isn't something that can be forgotten, and because the writers either regret taking it that far or simply can't handle writing about it they will try to forget it.

    Of course this means the writers will try to blame everything on Sylvanas, the thought of having the Horde that were there during the war of thorns taking blame instead of a single character sends shivers down their spine.

    It is easier (Even if it fails horribly) to try to make Saurfang the sad victim of trickery, a pathetic attempt at preserving the "Honor " of the Horde, thus creating a shitty narrative shield in which the Horde doesn't need to to be attacked by the Alliance in revenge because they are already suffering penance.

    Expect a retcon saying "not that many night elves died" or Tyrande killing the night elves who want revenge in the name of peace, but you're never going to get satisfaction because the writers are afraid of the bed they made and set it on fire.

    TLDR you'll get no Teldrassil acknowledgement or revenge because that would mean ripping apart the feeble duct-tape skeleton the writers have the audacity to say they are proud of this expansion.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyux View Post
    It's not about having more Night Elves, it's about continuing stories that make sense.

    I agree with OP. There were a lot of people that had established stories about the Legion. They should have been leading the fight, not Turalyon. Don't get me wrong, I love Turalyon and he has long been a favourite character of mine but why on Earth was he central? Why did he need to come back for that? Why did we need an undiscovered remnant Draenei tribe? We had the Exodar Draenei, Orcs, Belves and probably others who had a long history against the Legion.

    I think stories need to be followed through, like Arthas from WC3 TFT to WotlK, rather than starting heaps of new ones.
    Exactly, night elves were just the main example I used, cos I have liked this race a lot, but it goes well beyond them. Anyone into the story would find fast examples in whatever lore they gather.

  8. #68
    IMO the writers should have total control over the devs and the questlines. It's way easier to prevent a problem than to fix it. It's the proverbial stone thrown in a lake by an idiot, a stone that can't be found by a thousand wise men.

  9. #69
    The thing is they have a huge story that they have to condense into bite sized lore nuggets. Let's take Arthas for example: There was a big line of people waiting to kick him in the patootie for what he had done, yet you can only have so many characters in the story's focus before it gets cluttered. So Tirion got center stage while Sylvanas and Jaina played a role in one of the dungeons and most people got at least acknowledged in the Shadowmourne questline follow-ups. The death knights didn't really get a proper follow-up to their role in the story until years later in Legion when it was thematically appropriate for them to have their own questline.

    Imagine a HUGE line for one single spotlight. That's basically WoW lore, and has always been. They're doing it now, they did it in WotLK, Burning Crusade, Vanilla, all the way back to Warcraft III and beyond.

    I don't think it's inherently bad, because an over-cluttered spotlight where characters are just kind of "there because we felt obliged to include them" isn't an improvement. (See: Ji Firepaw being present in BFA and doing nothing)

  10. #70
    WarCraft story has lost most of its integrity because Blizzard does not take it seriously as their fans do. They do not make the effort check all of their sources in details.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Not trying to be rude but for the lore nerds, I am curious, do you have problems with something like GOT, The Walking Dead, etc? Is it somehow specifically related to video games that have lore and the game doesn't follow the lore specifically?

    Is there actually very few things that have lore behind them that the show/movie/game doesn't actually follow specifically? Perhaps if I cared more for lore I would... care, but I just never understood people who have a problem with lore and then a show/movie/game not following it. Perhaps it's a matter of me always thinking the show/movie/game took inspiration from previous history but it's still a new medium for telling the story.
    The GoT producers said they plan to go off the books tracks awhile ago. This is a little different to what is happening in WoW.

    Like, sometimes shit in the WoW books don't matter, but its supposed to be canon? Then things that happened in previous expansions is retroactively changed, which makes those stories inconsequential. Part of the issue is that writers/producers change hands and fight things out so much.

    While annoying in many rights, its especially dubious in the case of character development. People aren't blobs you can drastically change as you see fit. It makes them less immersive and harder to care about.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    WarCraft story has lost most of its integrity because Blizzard does not take it seriously as their fans do. They do not make the effort check all of their sources in details.
    Rule of cool is poison to good story telling and world building.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Rule of cool is poison to good story telling and world building.
    ์Not necessarily true. One Piece is a great story. Luffy drank milk and his teeth immedietly grew out. If the world created supports the rule of cool then it can work.

  14. #74
    It's like taking a really good movie that was made to be a standalone, see it be a big hit and turn it into a trilogy. Then after seeing that not so many fans enjoyed the trilogy as much as they did the standalone first one, make more! And turn the main character into a parody of themselves.

    Warcraft had a pretty decent lore for a video game, not on par with LotR but good for lore that came after the game. Warcraft 3 and Frozen Throne helped expand that lore really well and then the MMO came and started to treat the Lore differently. Where the RTS built up the world, the mmo sat their and devoured it all as content. It got to a point where they were starting to run out of a villains and then they came up with WoW: Civil War. Now the 2 factions would become each other's content(more like we both fight bad Horde npcs) and then raid a faction city together! They liked using the Horde Orcs as the content so much that they basically "Merely a setback" an entire world full of people and made them content.

    Then they retconned the demons into not actually dying which then gave us a second expansion that is full of "merely a setback" characters. Now we're back to the Horde will be the content with some mild Old God stuff going on.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The thing is they have a huge story that they have to condense into bite sized lore nuggets. Let's take Arthas for example: There was a big line of people waiting to kick him in the patootie for what he had done, yet you can only have so many characters in the story's focus before it gets cluttered. So Tirion got center stage while Sylvanas and Jaina played a role in one of the dungeons and most people got at least acknowledged in the Shadowmourne questline follow-ups. The death knights didn't really get a proper follow-up to their role in the story until years later in Legion when it was thematically appropriate for them to have their own questline.

    Imagine a HUGE line for one single spotlight. That's basically WoW lore, and has always been. They're doing it now, they did it in WotLK, Burning Crusade, Vanilla, all the way back to Warcraft III and beyond.

    I don't think it's inherently bad, because an over-cluttered spotlight where characters are just kind of "there because we felt obliged to include them" isn't an improvement. (See: Ji Firepaw being present in BFA and doing nothing)
    That's because there is too much clutter though. E.g. the majority of expansion questing in BfA is FILLER. It doesn't involve any character of interest, it does not build the world by providing details on how it works and it does not advance the story. At best it might be 6-8 quests and 15-30 mins of your time to introduce one character you'll never see again.
    The problem is entirely lack of direction. Different people create different parts of the story and they rarely get a chance to advance their characters.

    At the same time some times people have been waiting for an encounter to happen forever. I think the LK is a poor example; Jaina and Sylvanas DO get to interact with him, as does Muradin if indirectly. The more interesting point imo is Illidan. You have him and Tyrande standing next to each other after the Nightwell, a moment lore fans have waited for YEARS and yet they do not interact at all. There is also all the wasted characters in the class campaigns. E.g. why does the Demon Hunter class campaign in 7.2 NOT involve Illidan addressing the Demon Hunters? Why not have the characters from the novel be used as champions instead of new characters?

    And for the time it has been around WoW absolutely doesn't have that much lore. WC 1-2 are very shallow when it comes to advancing lore. WoW itself as well as the novels have not done a good job either.

    And I think the worst part is the Chronicle. The Chronicle makes sense as a concept only if you have a world were canon is treated as sacrosanct. If not, like the reality of WoW is, there are just better ways to handle things. ESO does this perfectly. Every source of lore is written in character and all of them are suspect with contrasting stories of the same event being common and even an ingame mechanism for retcons.

  16. #76
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    The Seat of the Pantheon.
    Posts
    7,699
    "Come Legion, notice how the Darnassian Kaldorei who have this major beef with the legion, do nothing against them directly. Tyrande is off chsing malfurion in Val'sharh who is concerned about the nightmare, and that's it. She leaves him at the end to uphold her oath to her goddess defending her temple and lands, but is completely absent along with her order when the attack on the Tomb of Sargeras their most holy temple begins - instead the class orders kick in, but somehow blizzard finds it difficult to have the Order of Elune working with or directing the class orders or the adventurer.

    Neither are they present in the final assault against the legion alongside the Draenei on the vindicaar - you'd think with Illidan returned, they'd be massive interaction.
    ABsent most ofthem arein Suramar too, where most of them come from. initially they had Vereessa doing the alliance stuff which was fine, but could easily have had the Order of leune leading the other kaldorei on their own separate thing."

    A lot of this is talked about in the Val'sharah questline, as well as the post Antorus questline.

    Basically: Malfurion was still focused on trying to cleanse the Dream while also defending Azeroth against the legion in 7.3, while Tyrande was leading most of the Night Elf defense across Azeroth in 7.3, while also aiding Malfuriong during everything post Val'sharah.

    Now, why didn't they also find ways to help out at the Tomb, as well as Argus? Because they didn't trust Illidan and were acting like spoiled snobs during 7.2, and it's 100% likely that they just missed out on the invitation to Argus, again due to Illidan as well as defending Azeroth.

    Now, with Azshara, it's completely fucking different, since you don't have an Infinite fucking army full of Demons, Spaceships and other shit bombarding your World every minute of the hour. You're also not defending Darkshore anymore, and all that. So, what the fuck is wrong with you? Illidan isn't even there.

    This is my answer: They're forgotten, and/or are bittersweet dicks (Which is the far more believable answer)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthiasVonTzeskagrad View Post
    You forgot quite some more, like the whole "orcs has ever big businesses against the Legion yet we see none" or suddenly lightforging demons and undead, or having Before the Storm crapping on every piece of Forsaken lore, or having blood Elves do nothing about Legion as well, or having plenty of characters promising to appear just to do nothing (remember the Undercity monster, or the supposed reeducation Koltira was about to receive, or Tyrus Blackhorn?)

    The problem is, Blizzard does not seem to have anybody employed to look up the lore, memorize it, and tell the debe "you can/should do this, instead of that".
    And when you have such a big lore, such a person is badly needed.
    Let me help ya out here, and say this:

    1. The Blood Elves were fighting, and the same thing with the Orcs. However, the focus was them fighting together as classes, and you see this with Liadrin, the Shaman of the Earthen Ring, and co. Not to mention most of them were trying to defend Azeroth anyway against the unstoppable enemy.

    2. "Lightforging demons and undead" This isn't really a retcon, more than it is something that was never done before. All of this could've been possible from the get-go.

    3. "having plenty of characters promising to appear just to do nothing (remember the Undercity monster, or the supposed reeducation Koltira was about to receive, or Tyrus Blackhorn?)" This is one of my only complaints, but that's more due to differing character focus, as well as time issues, sadly.

  17. #77
    I think a reasonably assumption is that during Legion, all the faction areas were constantly attacked so that anyone we don't see was essentially busy defending their homelands. They just did a very poor job of showing this.

  18. #78
    Bloodsail Admiral TheVaryag's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Blackrock Foundry
    Posts
    1,195
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I'm sure most of you have seen this a while now, but please tell me how on the one hand, blizzard can write some really good stories as individual pieces, and at the next moment, just savage their entire work by either poor or unnecessary retcons or completely ignoring elements from their previous story that athey had built up and focused on. Set up an interesting vast and diverse world, with really cool stuff, but not bother to make it hold up in integrity across multiple platforms adneven in time as they progress their story with expansions.. ALL the former info is there and the people who wrote it still alive. what is going on?

    Remember how tiny a role Sylvanas played in WotLK against Arthas who was supposed to be the reason or her revenge, yet Garrosh and Thrall were all over it.. iw as like wtf are they doing there, does blizzard even remember how much this means to her.

    The also minute role the blood elves played too, - as if they didn't care that this was important.

    They did it in TBC ofc, remember how in TFT, the night elves, Malfurion/Tyrnade were all involved with stopping Arthas and Illidan etc, yet come TBC that continues the story - poof - vanished (okay Malfurion had an excuse), but Tyrande? Night elves only showed up when the Cenarion circle was doing business, so they obviously remembered to include druids, but no night elf relevance.

    Do you remember how Thrall was awol in the siege of the city he founded, with his horde threatened, but had some lame excuse of being shattered by killing Garrosh - at least they gave him the excuse.

    Do you remember how humans played a larger role the alliance efforts in WoD than the freaking Draenei themselves, how your Garrison was human instead of Draenei.. but that wasn't that bad.

    Come Legion, notice how the Darnassian Kaldorei who have this major beef with the legion, do nothing against them directly. Tyrande is off chsing malfurion in Val'sharh who is concerned about the nightmare, and that's it. She leaves him at the end to uphold her oath to her goddess defending her temple and lands, but is completely absent along with her order when the attack on the Tomb of Sargeras their most holy temple begins - instead the class orders kick in, but somehow blizzard finds it difficult to have the Order of Elune working with or directing the class orders or the adventurer.

    Neither are they present in the final assault against the legion alongside the Draenei on the vindicaar - you'd think with Illidan returned, they'd be massive interaction.
    ABsent most ofthem arein Suramar too, where most of them come from. initially they had Vereessa doing the alliance stuff which was fine, but could easily have had the Order of leune leading the other kaldorei on their own separate thing.

    Now get to BFA, and we finally go to Naz'jatar, to fight Azshara, the night elf queen who started it off, none of the night elves are there save Shandris in any major way.. as if they forgotten all their previous work, like what we read in WotA, that had Tyrande so set up as the opposite and nemsis of Azshara, Malfurion who foils her plans, and was all about stopping her evil plans for both their people and the world. Or even Farondis who is set up in 7.0 against Azshara major time.

    How am I suppose to enjoy the lore, if I read all these things, buy all those stupid books, get immersed in the story they tell, and their is FUCK ALL continuity when it matters. They'd rather throw completely unrelated people like JAINA having a starring role rather than Tyrande or Malfurion or Farondis, that the darnassian kaldorei are once again completely missing in their own former capital, cradle of creation from the arcane, and the place they first discerned their goddess..

    I mean wtf - it's like none of the previous stuff matters. I don't mind Thrall and garrosh in WotLK, but why do they have more limelight and roles than Sylvannas, the forsaken and the blood elves? I don't begrudge Jaina or Lor'themar being in Naz'jatar, cool, but why do they have more going than the kaldorei and others like Tyrande, Malfurion, Farondis or Evenshade, the Shadowsongs etc aren't there at all - like we haven't had enough of Jaina… it's like leaving Jaina out of Thermaore or out of Kul'tiras.. I mean come on blizz. Great to see stuff and role for Thalyssra - but what about Farondis?

    If we are to care about the story , stop retconning un-necessarily, and properly weight current events in a way that is consistent with what you have already released. You start stories and plots, and you just abandon them left right and center. Classic is filled with unfinsiehd stuff 17 years later, no one even knows.. it's RUBBISh -- how do you expect people to care about the whole project when you don't even seem to remember what you write?

    It's not just about checking facts of the things you release, I know you have fact checkers, you should have people who point out to you "hey … you're focusing on the wrong people here because you have already set up these other people with the main connection, it looks really bad and disjointed if they're not there"

    I'm sorry, but even though the individual stories can sometimes be really good, the overall thing is disjointed and a mess, with little continuity, terrible consistency, and lots of plot holes. not to mention some of the decisions you have made are like..wtf.. does anyone understand conflict or politics here? Or care about consistency?

    Disappointed, most of your audience have grown up with wow, and remember the early stuff, we are no longer kids or teens, many of us are in our 20s, 30s and 40s - and you are still selling and declaring as canon your old stuff.

    It's just rubbish. you're ruining what could have been a really cool thing, for quick thrills, and most people see through it.

    i'm sorry, but Creative writing is SERIOUSLY letting down the project by failing in this aspect. Half of your retcons aren't necessary, evne things yo u have to do for gameplay, could be handled better and made to fit better in a way that enhances and adds to your story rather than hacks it to shreds. I'm no acclaimed writer, I enjoy entertainment, reading, watching etc, but this is really low.. I keep expecting more and more and more, and keep being disappointed.

    EDIT ADD:
    to quote another player who said something I think is spot on in another topic:
    As a giant lore buff and player since vanilla wow 14 years now. It hurts me to see the story go this way, ever since Cataclysm I felt It's gone the way of the do-do. I'm also a Roleplayer, I make stories, plotlines and develop characters of my own and with friends so to me It might be easier to look at paths that characters like Jaina, Thrall, Khadgar, Yrel, Garrosh and others could've taken alongside 100 other characters at the same time. It's not that hard to make multiple character plots work together and In the same expansion and use multitudes of them. Blizzard just never really thought WoW would work out In the longterm so they never seemed to plan for that.

    And that's their biggest weakness here I feel, now they're so far into WoW and It's lore and they keep changing so many UNNEEDED things It's so bizzare. The one that keeps striking me since Legion's end Is the retcon from the set-in-stone chronicles that state Titan Souls or what was left of them went Into their respective Keepers on Azeroth. But Instead, to suit their narrative they put them Into Sargeras' hands somehow, and no matter the questions we ask them they won't answer as to why that's happened.

    It wouldn't be SOOO bad If retcons happened, but If they presented a reasonable explenation as to why that happens we might be okay with It. But they never do, they just avoid talking about retcons like that, that they know they're doing and that hurts the most. They won't communicate, and that's another problem entirely.

    Another retcon coming to mind Is of course demons, you know, the Burning Legion now has Chaos Ships-..Imean Dimensional Ships that they've had even in the First and Second Invasions, oh and they also have literally rocket launchers, grenades, land mines and giant fel cannons, showing us that It's not the Fel that gives them so much power but their stolen technology they've reverse-engineered from the Naaru and the Draenei and made Into their own.

    And yes, we have flying ships, giant mechanical constructs, even limbs and mechanical beings, grenades and rocket launchers already... but the fact the demons have them In such quantaty Implies that's their strenght, rather then, you know, The Fel. Their dark forbidden magic, their ability to create portals and send countless demons through them, no It's giant spaceships with hangerbays full of fighter pilots (They literally have those, look up In the skies when you do a run of Antorus) there's dogfights of Lightforged Warframes and Legion Fighters, making you feel like in World of Warhammer.

    And that's just touching on one expansion, every expansion since has had so many retcons, so much lore inadaquacies that It boggles the mind. It's like they don't have writers and story makers that just sit down and make the story. Like you said, they NEED some guy(s) to keep track of the entire lore, a Loremaster who will sort what's canon and what's not. How do you think Elder Scrolls and games like that keep their lore -mostly- Intact and non-retcony?

    It's a shame, because the gameplay systems that are really bad are not complimenting the story at all, the story Is as bad as the systems they're trying to Implement. BfA alone Is a giant mess of lore. There's no reason Thrall, who seemingly is returning In 8.2 can't just walk up to Sylvanas, with the support of the ENTIRE HORDE behind him, say "Mak'gora" and kick her ass, and even If he doesn't they would all rebel agaisnt her for killing Thrall. It's a win-win situation and it'd stop more bloodshead, a true Warchief would do -that- for their people right there and then, but why doesn't Thrall? Heck why didnt he do that AFTER/BEFORE TELDRASSIL BURNED DOWN AND SYLVANAS DECLARED WAR THAT WAY.

    Nothing makes sense to me anymore, and the more I see of the lore the more I am pushed to games like Final Fantasy 14 and It's upcoming expansion. And the few things that made sense, are bonkers. Illidan, why is Ilildan back? Why Is his dialogue consistent of half-references to himself in Warcraft 3 and all of what he did is forgotten? They created this ludecreous story of him being the good guy and actually not a baddie In TBC.

    It's like, the NAARU themselves told us to go to the Black Temple and kill Illidan. And then another Naaru says "He's the choooosen one" at least that turned out to be legitimately interesting and not true, just showing how the Light means well and wants to do good but the means by which It achieves this is questionable. Kind of makes you understand why the Scarlet Crusade had such support from the light. Although, the basics of the light is that If you believe in It, you have true faith It will heed your call. That's why even one of the original Four Horsemen was still able to call upon the Light even after his death, his faith was pure and true.

    Xe'ra showed this interesting dynamic of how the Light isn't so different from the Void, an all consuming force nonetheless just like the Void and It must be kept balanced -with- the Void or else one swallows the other.

    That's the only Interesting lore bit I've found In the last three expansions, that's It. And I'm not very hopeful for the future of WoW anymore, In 6 months at Blizzcon 2019 I hope for something amazing to be shown to us when It comes to the next WoW Expansion. And even then, I'll be skeptical and wait for that expansion's beta to test things out.
    Banned on WoW since April 2015 because Blizzard doesn't wanna help me when my account got hacked, Is being hacked not a good reason to return my account to me, Blizzard? I'm looking to speak to representatives and members of Blizzard's CS and other departments to help me fix this situation, since CS has failed me I want to seek other official channels. Feel free to message about this

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirn View Post

    Those are just a few things that, to me, felt super jarring and made no sense in BfA. Some of the driving reasons why I dislike the story enough to have quit the game until it gets better. But I'm unsure if we can just chalk it up to "The writers are bad". I think there's a possibility that it's because the writers get much less support than we think. A smaller budget, more restrictions, a framework strictly dictated to them by pre-determined game-play and in-game systems and likely having a lot of their ideas and requests axed to re-direct resources to things like in-game store items, reworking the Azerite system, game-play balance etc.

    All of this is just supposition, of course, but I do work as a writer and I've had projects I was passionate about and put my heart-and-soul into ruined by 'upper-management' people needing to have their influence on it, for whatever reason. Try and keep in mind that, at the end of the day the writers don't have the final say on what WoW will be, and if the big-paycheck-boys in Blizzard decide "sylvanas iz raid boss nao lel" the writers will be forced to try and make that work.

    Best thing to do right now, I believe, is to vote with your wallets and tell Blizzard why you don't like the story as much a possible. Going after the writers just gives the big wallets at Blizzard an excuse to fire more people, and hire a smaller team with more restrictions because "It's always the creative departments fault".
    I know for certain that I have seen an interview or two where they basically say that the game design team writes the story; the writing team at Blizzard only fills in the details of how they get from Design's point A to Design's point B. It's completely backwards, in my opinion.

    It was this one that I'm thinking of:
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=286290/...d-toxic-fandom

    Big decisions like Teldrassil are made way in advance by the game team, only later brought to members of the story team to dramatize the plot, not to actually create the plot.
    Last edited by Nurasu; 2019-04-26 at 05:00 PM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    I know for certain that I have seen an interview or two where they basically say that the game design team writes the story; the writing team at Blizzard only fills in the details of how they get from Design's point A to Design's point B. It's completely backwards, in my opinion.

    It was this one that I'm thinking of:
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=286290/...d-toxic-fandom
    That would explain a hell of lot...

    Firstly, why we get such shit consistency and jarring/impossible jumps..but at the same time why we get some actually nicely done storylines that have emotion and depth enough to be okay.

    So jarring plot twists and forgetting important past lore, inl ine with constantly using a handful of lore characters to do everything, especially when really, they have literally nothing to do with said zone or area - must be them. Afrisiabi probably can't challenge the or repeal some of the bad turns becuase he doens't know the lore off head, and needs to check his notes, by which time the meeting is over and they've decided.

    I guess we have things like that to thank for how useless Lor'themar has been for nearly all his existence in wow, save now, probably same with Tyrande.. and why anything of importnat has been Jaina/Khadgar/Thrall/Varian/Garrosh/Sylvanas/Anduin.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •