Is Preach And The Community Becoming Overly Cynical About The Game?

[Flaks]

Streamers put all the weird biased ideas into the heads of the stupid, who come to forums to parrot them.

This is what it comes down to. Some specs play better than in Legion, others even better than in WoD or Cataclysm, a lot of them worse than before. It's the same kind of roller coaster we've seen for over a decade now. The streamers just like to push their own opinions as fact and the people who want an excuse find it on those channels. The fact of the matter is if you're enjoying the game, you're playing it, not sitting on the forums bitching about it.

[Shefu]

What do you guys think of preach and the community in general recently? Has anyone else noticed a shift in attitude towards WoW? Do you miss Preaches more chilled out critiques and videos? Maybe all of this has to do with him losing ghost? Not having two opinions bouncing off eachother? I'm not sure. Does the negativity turn you off of the game?

I enjoy watching Preach but he is way over the top in his criticism, sometimes I feel like he's about to pop an artery or something....

[zaino]

Far too generous.

3 minutes at most.

He ment 5 minutes for every class

[xpose]

The essence system is garbage. every BM hunter one is either a passive or some aoe that makes zero sense.

[oathy]

The essence system is garbage. every BM hunter one is either a passive or some aoe that makes zero sense.

That was my biggest concern. It really needed to be bold and right now doesnt feel like it.
things might change hence them wanting feedback.

[Aleksej89]

WoW has been out since about 2004 - that is around 15 years to 2019.
Many players have played this game since vanilla or early expansions all the way to modern WoW.

All the way up to and including MOPandaria you could see the classes and game systems grow and expand and advance and improve.
It wasnt all perfect and not all changes were good but it was always a fun game with entertaining classes and good content - actually a decent RPG overall.

Then comes WoD and starts pruning and deleting and removing significant parts of classes and whatever else.
Then Legion comes and continues that process of removing parts of classes - but they cover it up with Artifact/Legendary stuff (and good max-lvl questing content).

Then comes BfA - they remove everything that was good in Legion and then remove even more from classes and max-lvl content.
They further take a dump on BfA with the worst character development system ever (azerite) and the worst gear obtaining RNG bullshite.
There is no significant max level questing content - just boring brainless world quests that you must grind for azerite and reputation.
On top they release several expansion features such as Island Expeditions and Warfronts that are severely underdeveloped and boring and end up being largely unused.

People are naturally using drama to get views - this is what every media does and frankly it sucks.
But BfA deserves every bit of critique and hate it receives.

It is not only the worst WoW expansion but also the worst Blizzard game ever made.
Even when comparing it to non-blizzard games it is extremely badly designed, badly implemented, underdeveloped, shallow and boring.

[smityx]

Whatever drama will draw in the most clicks works for them.

[Casualboy]

I watch T&E, Bellular and Preach, not all videos but the ones that sounds interesting to me since they have more knowledge about certain stuff than I do, then I play my chars (yes, I´m an altoholic) to make my own opinion. To me, none of them are overly cynical.

Why do not you, that are cynical about the streamers do your own videos to prove them wrong or show the community how it should be presented?
I would watch them to see if there is anything useful I could pick up.

[quite an expert in wow]

it's a snowball effect

influencial people say they dont like the game, others follow them (and of course some actually dont like the game too), mmo-champion doesnt help either - almost every single thread contains posts of people who 'have quit the game but still post and read about wow daily'

and yeah wow has gotten older again so obviously people will get bored some time - i think it's already quite unique wow had been around for so long and still has so many people playing it AND talking about it

[Eleccybubb]

That was my biggest concern. It really needed to be bold and right now doesnt feel like it.
things might change hence them wanting feedback.

Oh they might listen to feedback this time?

Rather than deleting threads like they did during Beta when there was loads of feedback on what's wrong with the Azerite/Heart system in general?

[Raelbo]

Anyone with a brain would realise what you've put is dumb, thinking really is hard, especially thinking like you do

People who have to rely on ad hominem when trying to have a discussion about "thinking" are simply demonstrating their own ineptitude. What makes it even more ironic is how you pretty much proved exactly what I was saying....

In all seriousness, your point amounts to

"wah people think different to me"

In all seriousness, no. My point amounts to: "the community" which keeps getting referred to is only a (very small) subset of the wow player base and isn't representative of the playerbase at large - because "the community" actively works at excluding anyone who holds a different viewpoint.

People are annoyed because their hobby that they love is becoming evermore tarnished.

*some* people. Not everyone. And certainly a lot less than those people would like to have everyone else believe.

It's important for you to remember that this is a WoW forum - where else can I and people like me bitch about WoW?

How about, if you're only here to bitch, why not just move on?

Honestly, what value is there in a bunch of miserable cynics turning the WoW forums into an echo chamber for their own negativity. Yeah, sure, misery likes company, but it's important for you to remember that you're contributing towards turing this WoW forum into a cesspit of toxicity.

The point I was making is that when people like you behave the way you do, you push other people away from these forums. You are very quick to point out that this is a place where you want to share your opinions, but where do you show others the respect to share theirs? You don't. You call people idiots, tell them they don't know how think. Essentially you're nothing more than a forum bully chasing away everyone who doesn't agree with you.

Where else can people who actually still like the game go to talk about WoW when people like you actively push us away?

You don't need to like my opinion, you don't even need to read it.

My gripe is not with your opinion. My gripe is with your attitude and your conduct.

Just don't pretend you have any greater grasp of the consensus of the community than I do, because everything you're saying no different to mine - an opinion.

I haven't even expressed my opinion about the consensus of the community (except to say that it isn't what you say it is). I have simply explained why your grasp of that consensus is fundamentally flawed by the bias you and those like you have created in this space.

[nyc81991]

Not overly. It's justified.

It's important to note that it's not just WoW though, Blizzard in general is no longer the Blizzard most of us became fans of.

[SirCowdog]

How about, if you're only here to bitch, why not just move on? .

No opinion on the rest of your post, but for some people bitching is part of moving on.

Also, venting their displeasure is often something that has to be done before a more reasonable conversation can be had. The problem with forums is that tone of voice and legitimate complaints are all too often met with scorn and dismissive attitudes, which doesn't help anything.

[Whitedragon]

Abilities that were given to every spec were removed and made talents, replacing other talents which had to replace something else. Traits that made gameplay more interesting (instant blizzard for example) were removed and again, made into talents replacing other talents. So yes, EVERY spec that didn't get a complete rework is OBJECTIVELY lesser than it was in Legion.

Okay I'll bite, Lesser yes worse no (which is what you have been eluding to with your past posts). Only in the sense of total number of abilities did we actually drop in numbers. A good chunk of the abilities where uninspired and many where unwanted/unneeded, the ones that did actually add something of value game play wise actually made it back via talent trees usually replacing something no one ever picked. As for perks, of the classes I played in legion i can only think of 2-3 golden traits that really changed anything about the way I played the game, and guess what BfA actually has a few Az perks that do the same. Also come 8.2 your lesser argument will be fixed, considering they are giving all classes many different buttons to pick from, far surpassing the legion button because in no world can you say everyone was happy with the ability they got back then, and that choice is bad.

[Malix Farwin]

Whats the difference between yours, mine or youtubers opinion? If he/she is well known, it is somehow more worthwhile?
Cmon, use your own brain...

Okay not using the opinions of youtubers but instead my own personal opinion, Class design is ass in BfA.

[zaino]

Okay not using the opinions of youtubers but instead my own personal opinion, Class design is ass in BfA.

a lot of these people refuse to accept the fact that streamers and other influencers do, simply have a lot of influence. A lot of people like them because they are able to formulate criticisms or praises that make sense to viewers.

it just makes me laugh when people attempt to discredit them

[Dormie]

Okay not using the opinions of youtubers but instead my own personal opinion, Class design is ass in BfA.

And I'm sure you reached that opinion completely uninfluenced
And before "Yes I did", you wouldn't know if you didn't.

[WinningOne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=767StGhEO-E

Preach recently made a video getting in-depth with the new Heartforge system. After watching it, it got me thinking. How can someone be so nitpicky and cynical about literally everything regarding the mechanics of the game? I try very hard to understand the intricacies of my characters, but I just can't match preach or other mythic raiders feelings on how classes play in BFA. I can't look this deeply into them or care this much. I do agree they're worse than legion, but they dont feel as terrible as the forums make them out to be. I love Preaches content, but his attitude recently regarding new content turns me off. It's a real shame. The community in general has gotten so cynical as well. You can't go 5 seconds without people ranting about the smallest thing.

What do you guys think of preach and the community in general recently? Has anyone else noticed a shift in attitude towards WoW? Do you miss Preaches more chilled out critiques and videos? Maybe all of this has to do with him losing ghost? Not having two opinions bouncing off eachother? I'm not sure. Does the negativity turn you off of the game?

When was the last time you ever saw a Mythic content streamer say they thought the overall state of the game was amazing? Frankly, my enjoyment of games in general went way up when I stopped bothering with other peoples reviews. Most of these gaming nerds are just grinding an axe with Blizzard. Even if WoW became everything they wanted they'd still hate it.

[Raysz]

Note that he used the word lesser.
That's not a subjective opinion, every class and spec in the game lost their artifact weapon and everything that came with them. Some of them got the artifact abilities put into the talent trees, at the cost of a talent we used to have.

We literally had a net loss in how much a spec has going for it coming from Legion into BfA.


You could argue that Demo/Surv/Havoc got a net neutral as demo and survival got some much needed revamps and Havoc gained Immolation Aura instead of their artifact AoE ability, but regardless we did lose A LOT.
This also isn't counting all of the legendaries.




Maybe you should actually watch the video before being ignorant.

Someone pointing out some potentially horrendous balancing issues with the new Essences will HELP the casual playerbase more than the hardcore one.
He doesn't give a shit about the hardcore or the 1% even if he's part of it, he just wants the game to be fun and rewarding to dedicate your time to and not have your experience in PvP or PvE get ruined by one guy having the epic variant of a certain Essence and just destroys everything in sight.

It's not hard to understand if you just took of those biased glasses of yours.


EDIT- Also, elitist point of view?
It's just the point of view of someone who's been playing the game for 14 years and know that the classes and content can be so much more than they are. Wanting to have nuances brought back to the game isn't something I'd call "being elitist".

I don't need to watch any video in particular by Preach, I prefer not to actually, I watched more than enough of his horse poop, and I realized that 4 video's in.
And yes he is biased, his perspective is mostly a raider's perspective, he doesn't understand the LFR crowd or casual gamers in general. I'm sure you are subbed to his salty channel, we all make mistakes I guess.

[GreenJesus]

I don't need to watch any video in particular by Preach, I prefer not to actually, I watched more than enough of his horse poop, and I realized that 4 video's in.
And yes he is biased, his perspective is mostly a raider's perspective, he doesn't understand the LFR crowd or casual gamers in general. I'm sure you are subbed to his salty channel, we all make mistakes I guess.

From a casual LFR perspective you would be fine with 1 button that does a flat amount of damage, no stats on gear, everything given for free. Because who cares? Casual/LFR perspectives don't matter in design because they don't care. "I didn't notice because I don't know what I am doing" means you aren't qualified to talk about what is good/bad about the game. It's like asking a 7th grader about calculus when he just learned y=mx+b. Let the big boys figure out what is wrong with the game and you can just enjoy whatever blizzard plops on your plate.