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  1. #421
    I watch T&E, Bellular and Preach, not all videos but the ones that sounds interesting to me since they have more knowledge about certain stuff than I do, then I play my chars (yes, I´m an altoholic) to make my own opinion. To me, none of them are overly cynical.

    Why do not you, that are cynical about the streamers do your own videos to prove them wrong or show the community how it should be presented?
    I would watch them to see if there is anything useful I could pick up.

  2. #422
    it's a snowball effect

    influencial people say they dont like the game, others follow them (and of course some actually dont like the game too), mmo-champion doesnt help either - almost every single thread contains posts of people who 'have quit the game but still post and read about wow daily'

    and yeah wow has gotten older again so obviously people will get bored some time - i think it's already quite unique wow had been around for so long and still has so many people playing it AND talking about it
    top guild member
    multi gladiator

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by oathy View Post
    That was my biggest concern. It really needed to be bold and right now doesnt feel like it.
    things might change hence them wanting feedback.
    Oh they might listen to feedback this time?

    Rather than deleting threads like they did during Beta when there was loads of feedback on what's wrong with the Azerite/Heart system in general?

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Anyone with a brain would realise what you've put is dumb, thinking really is hard, especially thinking like you do
    People who have to rely on ad hominem when trying to have a discussion about "thinking" are simply demonstrating their own ineptitude. What makes it even more ironic is how you pretty much proved exactly what I was saying....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    In all seriousness, your point amounts to

    "wah people think different to me"
    In all seriousness, no. My point amounts to: "the community" which keeps getting referred to is only a (very small) subset of the wow player base and isn't representative of the playerbase at large - because "the community" actively works at excluding anyone who holds a different viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    People are annoyed because their hobby that they love is becoming evermore tarnished.
    *some* people. Not everyone. And certainly a lot less than those people would like to have everyone else believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    It's important for you to remember that this is a WoW forum - where else can I and people like me bitch about WoW?
    How about, if you're only here to bitch, why not just move on?

    Honestly, what value is there in a bunch of miserable cynics turning the WoW forums into an echo chamber for their own negativity. Yeah, sure, misery likes company, but it's important for you to remember that you're contributing towards turing this WoW forum into a cesspit of toxicity.

    The point I was making is that when people like you behave the way you do, you push other people away from these forums. You are very quick to point out that this is a place where you want to share your opinions, but where do you show others the respect to share theirs? You don't. You call people idiots, tell them they don't know how think. Essentially you're nothing more than a forum bully chasing away everyone who doesn't agree with you.

    Where else can people who actually still like the game go to talk about WoW when people like you actively push us away?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    You don't need to like my opinion, you don't even need to read it.
    My gripe is not with your opinion. My gripe is with your attitude and your conduct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Just don't pretend you have any greater grasp of the consensus of the community than I do, because everything you're saying no different to mine - an opinion.
    I haven't even expressed my opinion about the consensus of the community (except to say that it isn't what you say it is). I have simply explained why your grasp of that consensus is fundamentally flawed by the bias you and those like you have created in this space.

  5. #425
    Not overly. It's justified.

    It's important to note that it's not just WoW though, Blizzard in general is no longer the Blizzard most of us became fans of.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    How about, if you're only here to bitch, why not just move on? .
    No opinion on the rest of your post, but for some people bitching is part of moving on.

    Also, venting their displeasure is often something that has to be done before a more reasonable conversation can be had. The problem with forums is that tone of voice and legitimate complaints are all too often met with scorn and dismissive attitudes, which doesn't help anything.
    In case it wasn't clear, I'm a fan of what Blizzard COULD be, not the ruins of what it is now.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    People who have to rely on ad hominem when trying to have a discussion about "thinking" are simply demonstrating their own ineptitude. What makes it even more ironic is how you pretty much proved exactly what I was saying....



    In all seriousness, no. My point amounts to: "the community" which keeps getting referred to is only a (very small) subset of the wow player base and isn't representative of the playerbase at large - because "the community" actively works at excluding anyone who holds a different viewpoint.



    *some* people. Not everyone. And certainly a lot less than those people would like to have everyone else believe.



    How about, if you're only here to bitch, why not just move on?

    Honestly, what value is there in a bunch of miserable cynics turning the WoW forums into an echo chamber for their own negativity. Yeah, sure, misery likes company, but it's important for you to remember that you're contributing towards turing this WoW forum into a cesspit of toxicity.

    The point I was making is that when people like you behave the way you do, you push other people away from these forums. You are very quick to point out that this is a place where you want to share your opinions, but where do you show others the respect to share theirs? You don't. You call people idiots, tell them they don't know how think. Essentially you're nothing more than a forum bully chasing away everyone who doesn't agree with you.

    Where else can people who actually still like the game go to talk about WoW when people like you actively push us away?



    My gripe is not with your opinion. My gripe is with your attitude and your conduct.



    I haven't even expressed my opinion about the consensus of the community (except to say that it isn't what you say it is). I have simply explained why your grasp of that consensus is fundamentally flawed by the bias you and those like you have created in this space.
    I'm truly sorry, but I can't be bothered to read any of that.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Abilities that were given to every spec were removed and made talents, replacing other talents which had to replace something else. Traits that made gameplay more interesting (instant blizzard for example) were removed and again, made into talents replacing other talents. So yes, EVERY spec that didn't get a complete rework is OBJECTIVELY lesser than it was in Legion.
    Okay I'll bite, Lesser yes worse no (which is what you have been eluding to with your past posts). Only in the sense of total number of abilities did we actually drop in numbers. A good chunk of the abilities where uninspired and many where unwanted/unneeded, the ones that did actually add something of value game play wise actually made it back via talent trees usually replacing something no one ever picked. As for perks, of the classes I played in legion i can only think of 2-3 golden traits that really changed anything about the way I played the game, and guess what BfA actually has a few Az perks that do the same. Also come 8.2 your lesser argument will be fixed, considering they are giving all classes many different buttons to pick from, far surpassing the legion button because in no world can you say everyone was happy with the ability they got back then, and that choice is bad.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolithi View Post
    Whats the difference between yours, mine or youtubers opinion? If he/she is well known, it is somehow more worthwhile?
    Cmon, use your own brain...
    Okay not using the opinions of youtubers but instead my own personal opinion, Class design is ass in BfA.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Malix Farwin View Post
    Okay not using the opinions of youtubers but instead my own personal opinion, Class design is ass in BfA.
    a lot of these people refuse to accept the fact that streamers and other influencers do, simply have a lot of influence. A lot of people like them because they are able to formulate criticisms or praises that make sense to viewers.

    it just makes me laugh when people attempt to discredit them
    Insert cringe politically charged signature here

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Malix Farwin View Post
    Okay not using the opinions of youtubers but instead my own personal opinion, Class design is ass in BfA.
    And I'm sure you reached that opinion completely uninfluenced
    And before "Yes I did", you wouldn't know if you didn't.
    Last edited by Dormie; 2019-04-27 at 08:04 AM.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEaterofSouls View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=767StGhEO-E

    Preach recently made a video getting in-depth with the new Heartforge system. After watching it, it got me thinking. How can someone be so nitpicky and cynical about literally everything regarding the mechanics of the game? I try very hard to understand the intricacies of my characters, but I just can't match preach or other mythic raiders feelings on how classes play in BFA. I can't look this deeply into them or care this much. I do agree they're worse than legion, but they dont feel as terrible as the forums make them out to be. I love Preaches content, but his attitude recently regarding new content turns me off. It's a real shame. The community in general has gotten so cynical as well. You can't go 5 seconds without people ranting about the smallest thing.

    What do you guys think of preach and the community in general recently? Has anyone else noticed a shift in attitude towards WoW? Do you miss Preaches more chilled out critiques and videos? Maybe all of this has to do with him losing ghost? Not having two opinions bouncing off eachother? I'm not sure. Does the negativity turn you off of the game?
    When was the last time you ever saw a Mythic content streamer say they thought the overall state of the game was amazing? Frankly, my enjoyment of games in general went way up when I stopped bothering with other peoples reviews. Most of these gaming nerds are just grinding an axe with Blizzard. Even if WoW became everything they wanted they'd still hate it.

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