Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I don't know what you are reading either. Maybe read the actual comments before you write empty posts. My reference (and what the other guy was talking about) was in regards to the dps of the DK, and not its importance to the comp. If they play in top comps they are indeed in top tier, but they are not in any way top dps tier.
    You don't know what I'm reading because you're all over the place and using mental gymnastics. He said "top dps pvp spec" and you've twisted that context to somehow mean "top burster" or something, I dunno, too much mental gymnastics, no need to be rude about it, maybe explain and be more specific what it is you're posting about and I won't need to question it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    This exactly!!! BoS is the worst type of playstyle ever created....
    In its prime, as a BLOOD-TANK COOLDOWN it had its uses and it could be exploited by good player a little bit. It was not that insane to be honest, there were times where other tanks did much more raid-DPS in the tanking role with broken tank scaling.

    It should have never been left as a soak extendable DPS cooldown, since all it brought were steady and continuous soaking nerfs to anything usable with BoS.

    Just look at some of the 8.2 nerfs/changes:
    Multitarget runicpower gains are nerfed again because of the BoS ussage, while every other class got major synergys with multitarget fights (eye-beam etc.)

    The whole first talent tier is broken, because multitarget scaling with BoS would be to high.

    It is just insane how many gating to talents/mechanics are in place to keep BoS in place while gutting everything else. Even if you really like the BoS playstyle or the animation or whatever, everyone should see the major problems this one talents brings to the whole spec.

    It doesnt matter if they overbuff the BoS competing talents, we allready had that in LEGION. It just means that in a future tier or latest in the next expansion BoS will be at some point the only choice again and we repeat every correction steps from BfA and LEGION AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.

    I just wish some DEV at Blizzard with a brain and good will take his time, kill BoS off for good and give killing machine the full Warlock/ShadowBolt treatment and allow the spec a bit more scaling headroom without relying on aura-buffs to even function in the game.
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    In its prime, as a BLOOD-TANK COOLDOWN it had its uses and it could be exploited by good player a little bit. It was not that insane to be honest, there were times where other tanks did much more raid-DPS in the tanking role with broken tank scaling.
    Blood Breath was only overpowered in WoD during Blackrock Foundry when there was the Glyph of Chains of Ice which gave Chains +20 Runic Power which was insane for keeping Breath going. Nothing else gives 20 Runic for 1 Rune.
    Major Glyphs have been gone for like 3 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    It should have never been left as a soak extendable DPS cooldown, since all it brought were steady and continuous soaking nerfs to anything usable with BoS.
    Real full Runic Power bar soaking for Runic Power has been gone since Legion it isn't really a big deal. It was broken at the end of WoD with Rocket Fuel and Slime in Hellfire but thats like 3 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Just look at some of the 8.2 nerfs/changes:
    Multitarget runicpower gains are nerfed again because of the BoS ussage, while every other class got major synergys with multitarget fights (eye-beam etc.)
    There has never really been any "multitarget runicpower gains" in the game.
    Its always been spend 1 Rune = 10 Runic Power. Irreverent of number of targets.
    Frost Fever's Runic Power was only added in Legion and the gain is so little and it has a internal cooldown to prevent multiple procs.
    8.2 boosting the Frost Fever proc rate is only a positive thing. Not a Nerf.
    "eye-beam etc" is about as descriptive as saying our Howling Blast hitting mobs other than the single target is a "major synergy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    The whole first talent tier is broken, because multitarget scaling with BoS would be to high.
    Huh? How does the first talent row have anything to do with multiple targets?
    Cold Heart hits one mob, Icy Talons auto attacks hit one mob, Inexorable Assault hits one mob even with Frostscythe?
    Its not a single target dps row.
    I don't even...
    _____________________________________________
    Also known as Kalrell ingame and @Kalrell on Twitters.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    You don't know what I'm reading because you're all over the place and using mental gymnastics. He said "top dps pvp spec" and you've twisted that context to somehow mean "top burster" or something, I dunno, too much mental gymnastics, no need to be rude about it, maybe explain and be more specific what it is you're posting about and I won't need to question it.
    I don't see a reason to feel mentally manipulated. And in all honesty, I still believe you did not read the posts, since I haven't been twisting anything at all. In fact, I only explained why being top DPS in pvp does not matter as the comp's strength and playstyle circles aronund burst windows, inside which the DK does not shine, and is only supporting classes with broken dmg (DH, WW) with its utilities. Then you kick in, start questioning the DK's imporatnce in the comp (which was totally outside the topic), and finish with "wtf am I reading" if I remember correctly... What kind of answer did you expect?

  5. #45
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    2,047
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I don't see a reason to feel mentally manipulated. And in all honesty, I still believe you did not read the posts, since I haven't been twisting anything at all. In fact, I only explained why being top DPS in pvp does not matter as the comp's strength and playstyle circles aronund burst windows, inside which the DK does not shine, and is only supporting classes with broken dmg (DH, WW) with its utilities. Then you kick in, start questioning the DK's imporatnce in the comp (which was totally outside the topic), and finish with "wtf am I reading" if I remember correctly... What kind of answer did you expect?
    You're literally "blah blah blahing" me with useless information with both already know.

    Thanks though.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    You're literally "blah blah blahing" me with useless information with both already know.

    Thanks though.
    First of all, my discussion was with somebody else before you butted in. Secondly, you did not even understand what we were talking about. Third, it took a few posts before you actually did. So yeah, it's normal to "blah blah blah" you a bit. You'll live with it, stop jumping around like a baby rooster.

  7. #47
    Keep it civil please guys
    - Death Knight/Demon Hunter/Monk Moderator -

  8. #48
    You guys are forgetting one thing that makes BoS ridiculously overpowered compare to the other talent in the same row.

    BoS breaks one very important rule that Frost DK never manage to get around; the ability to deal damage without consuming any GCD (aside from the initial casting GCD)

    Think about it. If you are able to hold BoS for 45 seconds, you then have effectively dealt 30 free GCD worth of damage. The only way for other talent to compete is basically by implementing a huge draw-back when BoS ends (rune starved) or buff up baseline skill damage.

    From a balance perspective, forcing Frost DK to go resource starved at the end of BoS IS intentional or "working as intended". But from gameplay perspective, it is a very poor decision making the spec clunky to play.

    I believed the intention for BoS built is to be similar to S.Priest Surrender to Madness. If you are skillful enough to time your BOS to maximum duration the encounter allows, you should be topping DPS meters. Should you screw up and let the BOS falls off, then standing around waiting for your resource to regen is your "punishment"

    However, Blizzard seems undecided on what they want BOS to be. Instead of an "all or nothing" talent, Blizzard decide to change BoS to ensure it is a more normalized "rotation" talent where the rest period of BoS is more smoothed out.

    This indecisiveness makes other talent unable to compete. Icecap change is somewhat in the right direction. It makes each GCD hits harder which can counteract BoS cheesing the GCD limitation. In order for Obliteration to compete, what it should do is to provide a skill with a short cooldown that does not use up a GCD. An ability like Blood Letter from FF14 will suffice. And allow it reset its cooldown by a common occuring trigger (consuming KM or when PoF is active). This allow more interactivity.

    Thus your final row of talent is not only balance but also cater to different players
    1) Icecap: Those who want minimal change to the existing playstyle. All they have to do is press PoF more often for bigger damage

    2) Obliteration: Those who like to press buttons alot. An additional skill that is off GCD and a trigger that reset its cooldown will always keep them occupied.

    3) BoS: Those who like the "combo" built. Set up the fight for one big moment with BOS. Perform the BOS perfectly they will top DPS, failing so means their dps is punished.
    Last edited by FrostyK; 2019-07-13 at 02:55 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyK View Post
    You guys are forgetting one thing that makes BoS ridiculously overpowered compare to the other talent in the same row.

    BoS breaks one very important rule that Frost DK never manage to get around; the ability to deal damage without consuming any GCD (aside from the initial casting GCD)
    A talent doesnt have to be "ridiculously overpowered" when the alternatives are barelly 1-2% DPS contributors to the spec. Icecap with 100% target uptime should beat BoS but it does not.

    It doesnt really matter, the heroic week numbers are showing frost even lower as the tier before. Good luck with your 45second BoS durations in this or any other tier. Frost is down to worst 3 specs in game (heroic numbers) while unholy gets you into the low 1/3 bracket but still far away behind the utility/raidbuff melee specs, so it doesnt even matter.

    At least there are no more patchwerk fights in this game. Imagine beeing 20-25% behind in DPS to nearly all top performers at the start of the tier, with worse statscaling. Oh wait, we have simcraft, no need to imagine anything.
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  10. #50
    We faced similar problem in Legion where BOS built is the only viable built. Blizzard tweak the talent tree to nerf BOS.

    When comes to BFA, I have no idea why they went back to making BOS the only viable built again pre 8.2.

    Seems like no one in Blizzard played DKs

  11. #51
    I really dislike Syndragosa's fury. I wish they'd make obliteration a viable alternative. I am currently using it but I know it's inferior, I just enjoy the gameplay much more.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •