WoW should go more solo player (new try)

[Mermeoth]

No, it shouldn't because no one wants to do that as has been explained multiple times with actual data backing it up. Why do you think Blizzard stripped back those elements in the first place?

I'm sorry but you need to understand something that is perfectly obvious to sane human beings: very few people want to socialize with wow players. No one wants some retard screaming at them for twenty minutes because they stood in the fire. Sure there's a lot of nice people, doesn't make up for the assholes. People don't want to pay for that.

People like being in a world with other players and have occassional interactions, maybe making friends if they get on. They do not want to be in a situation with impractical time commitments and people they can't stand.

Funny you talk about obvious and yet your problem is you don't understand "your actual data"

Yeah people currently playing wow prefer LFR over organized raiding. However it's outcome of development of game over years.
Game became more accesible which invited more casual players who want just do quick raid and spend no time and effort. While at same time it threw away it RPG and MMO elements, which chased away more hardcore players who want to spend quality gameplay within hardcore community.

What are the results? People engage with game less and less. Most of original core target audience mostly left and the rest being super angry. Most of current playerbase care about game far less and playerbase as whole is shrinking.

[Qnubi]

Dungeons and raids with AI would be interesting in a way. The AI can't "randomly" fail a mechanic without feeling forced to do so. That means all mechanics would be tailored on the player. Every wipe mechanic would be targeted at the player, otherwise it would feel cheap. The difficulty of solo dungeons and raids would be significantly higher if they ever decide to do that for the average casual player. No longer can a group carry a bad player, that bad player will never finish a dungeon or raid if the entire success of the group lays on him. The AI can't bail him out because they will be forced to not do it, otherwise you create a "can't lose" scenario like current warfronts. I would love a mode for dungeons where every mechanic is targeted at me and I have to literally carry the group myself because the others are just AI that won't help me. In a m+ I always hope the boss targets me for mechanics because I know I will do them.

[Qnubi]

Just think of the Healer Mage Tower challenge or Proving Grounds. The NPCs could get in trouble and you had to keep them safe.

Yeah, solo content is plenty, but it's all braindead content. Enjoying to play alone doesn't mean I don't want to feel challenged. Even just a mode like war-mode for increased challenge in outdoor content would be good for me. Funny enough FF14 is addressing this issue in the next expansion (co-op dungeon with AI) and is the main reason I am currently investing time to level up some character to try that out.

[Very Tired]

Just think of the Healer Mage Tower challenge or Proving Grounds. The NPCs could get in trouble and you had to keep them safe.

I actually would love something like the healer Mage Tower as future solo content. But I wouldn't get my hopes up about them rewarding decent gear on par with mythic+ and raiding. And even if it did, Blizz would have to make it so difficult that the same small percentage of pro players would be able to do it. And I get the feeling a lot of people would be in for some complaining after that rude awakening.

[kamuimac]

No, it shouldn't because no one wants to do that as has been explained multiple times with actual data backing it up. Why do you think Blizzard stripped back those elements in the first place?

I'm sorry but you need to understand something that is perfectly obvious to sane human beings: very few people want to socialize with wow players. No one wants some retard screaming at them for twenty minutes because they stood in the fire. Sure there's a lot of nice people, doesn't make up for the assholes. People don't want to pay for that.

People like being in a world with other players and have occassional interactions, maybe making friends if they get on. They do not want to be in a situation with impractical time commitments and people they can't stand.

very true words.

very world shatterling for some no-lifers who treat wow as 2nd job and home

i would add - normal people look for friends IRL - only people who look for short term commitments which they treat as friendship in games are some people with few kind of "problems" (for example extreme anxiety etc)

yes there are few exeptions from rule but as for general population - ye ... it takes "special " people to treat wow as source for friendships.

- - - Updated - - -

Ultimately the reward structure is the biggest current problem of WoW, yes bigger than class design. There is an absolute glut of gear because they have added too many new forms of content and the only thing that incentivizes people to run content is gear. So when you need to reward people with gear to run World Quests, Dungeons, Emissaries, Warfronts, Raids and PvP and all of those are reasonably accessible, people will gear up very fast and then only depend on the rare TF proc to get an upgrade. And honestly unless you are in the WF race, I don't think that is ever worth it. Blizzard will need to complete change their reward system come 9.0. And to add something controversial, one of those changes has to be removing loot from M+ outside the chest. You cannot have repeatable content that offers so much loot in the game.

thats a simply not true. the only ones who gear up fast are those who play obscene amount of time per week. normal people take weeks/months to gear up to remotly high levels.

sure if you play 30-40hours a week you will gear up "fast" - but normal person who plays 3-5 hours a week will never be that "efficient"

its a good thing that its no longer raid or die model

although without doubt some nolifers would defend raid or die till death of game.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, solo content is plenty, but it's all braindead content. Enjoying to play alone doesn't mean I don't want to feel challenged. Even just a mode like war-mode for increased challenge in outdoor content would be good for me. Funny enough FF14 is addressing this issue in the next expansion (co-op dungeon with AI) and is the main reason I am currently investing time to level up some character to try that out.

which is evidence once again blizzard falling behind the competition just because they listen to raiders only

just like they are behind them at least 3-4 years with "fate" system and what they implemented into game doesnt allow dynamic grouping (and when players design addon which does exackly this what WQ should be from beggining they ban its automatic function). - again because they focused on content for hardcores not for casual majority

[Charge me Doctor]

And people definitely do LFR and LFG because they enjoy the social aspect /s

Being social and playing co-operative game with other human beings are different things.

I, for once, do not wish to socialize with people from random matchmaking, but i enjoy playing with other humans for sick plays and/or hilarious mistakes they make. AI can be substituted with a x400% health and damage buff for your character for purpose of soloing content, or you have to code a "failing" AI that will require babysitting or they'll fail every time, without it you'll simply be able to afk through it.

[Qnubi]

I actually would love something like the healer Mage Tower as future solo content. But I wouldn't get my hopes up about them rewarding decent gear on par with mythic+ and raiding. And even if it did, Blizz would have to make it so difficult that the same small percentage of pro players would be able to do it. And I get the feeling a lot of people would be in for some complaining after that rude awakening.

Blizzard needs to separate the gear more distinctively so raiders, dungeoneers and solo players all have their own gear sets. Basically add a form of "content power" to the gear you get from that content. Let's say you do a lot of mythic raiding and have high-end gear there. That gear is insanely powerful in a raid, but just decent in outdoor content. Some other dude is doing 40 WQ a day, his gear is insanely powerful for WQ content but just decent if he was to go raiding with it. You get more powerful in the content you enjoy doing and everyone will feel stronger. The casual can focus on one activity, the hardcore get powerful in all 3 (or 4 with PvP) activities: Outdoor, Dungeon and Raid gear would make your gear feel more meaningful. You want to have the best dungeon gear? Go do dungeons. Currently gearing comes from all places and is even enhanced by WF/TF system. This means most raiders wear more Dungeon and WQ gear than they should.

At least that's how I feel about it.

[Qnubi]

It’s already a solo player game. We can do questing, raids, dungeons and PvP content by ourselves.

No, you are wrong. You can only do leveling/questing alone. For anything else you need real players. PvP literally means Player vs. Player, lol.

[Qnubi]

Yes, but we don’t need others to go with us to do the content - we can queue by ourselves. That’s what I was referring to.

So the tank/healer/dps are no "others"? Go ahead and tell them they are assholes in chat and see how long you can do the content "alone". Fact is, you NEED other players to do anything besides (world)questing in WoW. You queue to play with others, not with AI or bots. The system just does the group searching for you, you still play with players and without them you can't do the current content.

[Qnubi]

Okay, maybe we’re having a miscommunication here, in terms of what we consider soloable content. I’m not thinking the OP means only having NPCs and AI to play against.

So I suppose I am on topic and you are not because the OP literally said this on the first page:

I would like AI battlegrounds, dungeons and raids.

[Qnubi]

I only read the original post and answered based on that. This comment was made later on, I assume to further explain what they meant.

My mistake.

I understand, I would advise you to quickly skip through a topic that is 15+ pages long and at least read OP posts (they are marked) I also did that when I jumped in on page 15 to make sure what OP wants to discuss about. So in the future you can avoid misunderstandings based on what the topic is about.

[diarx]

Blizzard needs to separate the gear more distinctively so raiders, dungeoneers and solo players all have their own gear sets. Basically add a form of "content power" to the gear you get from that content. Let's say you do a lot of mythic raiding and have high-end gear there. That gear is insanely powerful in a raid, but just decent in outdoor content. Some other dude is doing 40 WQ a day, his gear is insanely powerful for WQ content but just decent if he was to go raiding with it. You get more powerful in the content you enjoy doing and everyone will feel stronger. The casual can focus on one activity, the hardcore get powerful in all 3 (or 4 with PvP) activities: Outdoor, Dungeon and Raid gear would make your gear feel more meaningful. You want to have the best dungeon gear? Go do dungeons. Currently gearing comes from all places and is even enhanced by WF/TF system. This means most raiders wear more Dungeon and WQ gear than they should.

At least that's how I feel about it.

So much this, it's definitely time for a new world order.

In the outside world Raiders/dungeoners and instanced PvPers should be at a disadvantage in their gear compared to peeps in top tier war mode/WQ earned gear. You should have to master outdoor content to perform at your best in outdoor content. Instanced raiding/rated arena/bgs doesn't prove you've mastered outdoor content.

[kamuimac]

How the literal hell has such a bait post managed to get to 15 pages?

because its not bait only legit concerns - clearly shared by wow dev team because of advancmenet of AI in island expeditions and battleground brawls .

[Jowany]

WoW si MMO RPG.. so you shouldn't play it solo in main sides of game (like raids, dungeons, BGs). Different thing is old content (farming mounts, mog, etc).
So you should play with others to complete main challanges/goals of expansion. If you want soloable content, play single player offline games. Single playing WoW is ruining this game for me. I like playing with others and working together to reach our goals.

[Alydael]

I think WOW should have a solo mode.

It would be easy to implement, just think of the role requiremenst for a fight and the solo player must meet those reqs to beat the boss. For example: can't stand in fire, must pass the debuff it you get it and must stack for a certain ability. You must do all this throughout the fight without dying and do at least 15k dps. If you fail at that-you wipe.

It would actually be more challenging than the raid because you would be forced to do your job. Any raider with experience knows there are at least 2-3 carries on any team and a whole bunch more that barely do their job. In my experience- most teams down bosses because they actually out gear them- not because they have mastered mechanics. My solo mode would only allow those that mastered mechanics to pass- no carries.

You could even apply a point/ranking system to how well the solo player executed the mechanics and have a leaderboard (can you get 100%?).

I think this is necessary because as WOW ages- it will be harder and harder to find a consistant raid team. The solo mode will make raids still viable and will not really require that much extra work by devs. Even now, about 10% of players complete these raids on heroic (I'm not sure of the normal clear numbers)- raids take a lot of dev time, solo mode would give more bang for the buck.

For all those saying different armor sets- Blizzard is not going to do that. They already tried it with pvp and non pvp sets and they basically scrubbed the idea and considered it a failure (plus it take more work).

Also blizzard needs to move away from the ideas that group content is the most challenging and should get the greatest reward. It's just not true. grouping is actually more about randomness and luck. You have to be lucky enough to find a group of people that run at times you can make consistantly. You could be the best player in the world- but have strange work/ family hours and not be able to find a good consistant group. Should you be penalized for that? Locked out of the best rewards? Seems like a bad strat really.

Then pugging is totally random. You could pug into a great group and clear a raid on the first shot or get a bad group and struggle on the first boss. Once again- it will have very little to do with your skill.

That is why I don't understand the whole: group content= best rewards. It would seem to me that, logically, solo content would offer the best rewards- since the player has to beat it alone.

Grouping means people can be carried, etc. In fact, carries are sold in chat constantly. BFA heroic carries were out within a week. How challenging is that group content that people have mastered it and are selling carries within a week? Really? A solo challenge puts it all on the player- there is no carry.

[MrHorner]

Why would I play wow as solo? there are so many other games that deliver a much better singleplayer experience

[LightBR]

SWTOR tried this and saw what a big mistake it was. It killed the rest of their player base and the majority of what was left before they reverted that idiot decision was unable to do easy group content cause all of the game was basically turned into a SP god mode fest where there was zero challenge on anything. So no, WoW has sooo many single player features it is already enough to cater to that need.

MMO still stands for Massive Multiplayer Online so yeah....

[Qnubi]

I think WOW should have a solo mode.

It would be easy to implement, just think of the role requiremenst for a fight and the solo player must meet those reqs to beat the boss. For example: can't stand in fire, must pass the debuff it you get it and must stack for a certain ability. You must do all this throughout the fight without dying and do at least 15k dps. If you fail at that-you wipe.

It would actually be more challenging than the raid because you would be forced to do your job. Any raider with experience knows there are at least 2-3 carries on any team and a whole bunch more that barely do their job. In my experience- most teams down bosses because they actually out gear them- not because they have mastered mechanics. My solo mode would only allow those that mastered mechanics to pass- no carries.

You could even apply a point/ranking system to how well the solo player executed the mechanics and have a leaderboard (can you get 100%?).

I think this is necessary because as WOW ages- it will be harder and harder to find a consistant raid team. The solo mode will make raids still viable and will not really require that much extra work by devs. Even now, about 10% of players complete these raids on heroic (I'm not sure of the normal clear numbers)- raids take a lot of dev time, solo mode would give more bang for the buck.

For all those saying different armor sets- Blizzard is not going to do that. They already tried it with pvp and non pvp sets and they basically scrubbed the idea and considered it a failure (plus it take more work).

Also blizzard needs to move away from the ideas that group content is the most challenging and should get the greatest reward. It's just not true. grouping is actually more about randomness and luck. You have to be lucky enough to find a group of people that run at times you can make consistantly. You could be the best player in the world- but have strange work/ family hours and not be able to find a good consistant group. Should you be penalized for that? Locked out of the best rewards? Seems like a bad strat really.

Then pugging is totally random. You could pug into a great group and clear a raid on the first shot or get a bad group and struggle on the first boss. Once again- it will have very little to do with your skill.

That is why I don't understand the whole: group content= best rewards. It would seem to me that, logically, solo content would offer the best rewards- since the player has to beat it alone.

Grouping means people can be carried, etc. In fact, carries are sold in chat constantly. BFA heroic carries were out within a week. How challenging is that group content that people have mastered it and are selling carries within a week? Really? A solo challenge puts it all on the player- there is no carry.

You are correct my dude. I agree with everything you said.

- - - Updated - - -

I think WOW should have a solo mode.

It would be easy to implement, just think of the role requiremenst for a fight and the solo player must meet those reqs to beat the boss. For example: can't stand in fire, must pass the debuff it you get it and must stack for a certain ability. You must do all this throughout the fight without dying and do at least 15k dps. If you fail at that-you wipe.

It would actually be more challenging than the raid because you would be forced to do your job. Any raider with experience knows there are at least 2-3 carries on any team and a whole bunch more that barely do their job. In my experience- most teams down bosses because they actually out gear them- not because they have mastered mechanics. My solo mode would only allow those that mastered mechanics to pass- no carries.

You could even apply a point/ranking system to how well the solo player executed the mechanics and have a leaderboard (can you get 100%?).

I think this is necessary because as WOW ages- it will be harder and harder to find a consistant raid team. The solo mode will make raids still viable and will not really require that much extra work by devs. Even now, about 10% of players complete these raids on heroic (I'm not sure of the normal clear numbers)- raids take a lot of dev time, solo mode would give more bang for the buck.

For all those saying different armor sets- Blizzard is not going to do that. They already tried it with pvp and non pvp sets and they basically scrubbed the idea and considered it a failure (plus it take more work).

Also blizzard needs to move away from the ideas that group content is the most challenging and should get the greatest reward. It's just not true. grouping is actually more about randomness and luck. You have to be lucky enough to find a group of people that run at times you can make consistantly. You could be the best player in the world- but have strange work/ family hours and not be able to find a good consistant group. Should you be penalized for that? Locked out of the best rewards? Seems like a bad strat really.

Then pugging is totally random. You could pug into a great group and clear a raid on the first shot or get a bad group and struggle on the first boss. Once again- it will have very little to do with your skill.

That is why I don't understand the whole: group content= best rewards. It would seem to me that, logically, solo content would offer the best rewards- since the player has to beat it alone.

Grouping means people can be carried, etc. In fact, carries are sold in chat constantly. BFA heroic carries were out within a week. How challenging is that group content that people have mastered it and are selling carries within a week? Really? A solo challenge puts it all on the player- there is no carry.

You are correct my dude. I agree with everything you said.

[Loveliest]

WoW could be way more successfull probably if it would focus on the solo player part more than it does now.

What do you think?

Successful? Hmmm... Hard to tell.

Having an online game means it has to be repetitive, because you can't dish out a fresh AAA game every few months. Some online games are pvp-types where you get tot do the same thing / map with different teammates, different characters, different decks, different opponents etc.
Some are RPGs like WoW - the repetitiveness comes from quests, dungeons, raids and whatever else you can make repeatable. Like doing the same quests but with different characters and skills.

In the end, to the average person, repetitive gets boring. I said to the average person - I know there are people who are capable of doing the same thing over and over, but most hate routine and need enough difference to make it worthwhile.
So... what makes an online game be less boring? Or even a game? If you play cards - the fun comes from: playing it with someone else and adapting to randomness (you don't get the same cards every time). How about solitaire then? Ehm... it's short, you play a few games, but you can't really play like 20 of it every day, I guess?
So short, random, different opponent works.
But what about this online RPG game? You do the quests once, you're done. How many times can you repeat it to make it not boring? How much content that we could only consume a few times without getting bored could we realistically have? In the end, what makes it hold isn't the quality of a single player game. Even a pure single player game has limited replayablity and doesn't hold your interest for years on end. So... what makes it work is playing with others. Without the others, this online game can't work. And just seeing them isn't enough, you either have to cooperate (pve) or work against (pvp).

So overall, I don't think this kind of genre (solo MMORPG) can exist. At least not for long and not in a way that would be different from just plain playing a solo game with a chat / lobby attached. But who knows.

[Loveliest]

You could be the best player in the world- but have strange work/ family hours and not be able to find a good consistant group. Should you be penalized for that? Locked out of the best rewards?

I think you're looking at this wrong. You're looking at a game that says "these are the rules you have to play by" and you say "this is unfair".
Example: this is basketball and it requires a team of 5 + 5 reserves or whatever the number is. You have to come to every game this team has and come to practice. And you cry that you can't accommodate it, that you're a good player and that it's not fair your team gets money when they win. That they should make a special basketball game for you where you're on the field alone have to do some special tricks. You probably wouldn't do it for any real life game - why does this make sense to you in WoW?