Blizzard invalidating content once again

[ZazuuPriest]

This is why raider.io needs to go, because a healthy and thriving game needs to encourage people to help new players. The game doesn't need selfish efficiency whores who play purely to improve their own character, stand on the backs of others' work, and put others down.

yeah thats fine in regular content but if im trying to time keys and you have a 500 or under score, which is like half mine by the way, then my group isnt for you. The same as groups with 3k io score are not going to take me.

[Craaazyyy]

If you want to gear as quick as wrath yes. But you had originally only mentioned WQ, incursions, and warfronts ... and warfronts and incursions are not seeing any ilvl bump anyway.

well warfonts dont need ilvl buff, they already give 400 ilvl.. also there is a world boss that can give you 400 ilvl item as well

there is also titanforging and warforging.. so with moderate luck you can be 400 ilvl(heroic raid lvl) in less than a month after this bump..

[Onikaroshi]

yeah thats fine in regular content but if im trying to time keys and you have a 500 or under score, which is like half mine by the way, then my group isnt for you. The same as groups with 3k io score are not going to take me.

The problem with raider.io is it values quantity too much. If you only do 3 dungeons because you only need gear from those 3 dungeons you're screwed. It should only have dungeon based scores.

[Craaazyyy]

This is why raider.io needs to go, because a healthy and thriving game needs to encourage people to help new players. The game doesn't need selfish efficiency whores who play purely to improve their own character, stand on the backs of others' work, and put others down.

yeah, have you tried helping people? they dont want to listen and call you angry for just pointing out that they're doing something wrong

i leveled from 20 to 120, did like 40 dungeons along the way and out of 40 dungeons in like 20 of them people were doing something wrong and maybe 2 out of 20 times people listened to what i had to say

[Dakara]

My guild only raids Heroic.
I haven't had a single WF/TF drop this Tier.
I hate Mythic +
My raiding mains ilvl is 400
This means I can gear my Alts to the same ilvl as my Main.
Love it.

[Kralljin]

but if these changes undermine their progression, wouldn't this change HELP them through normal/heroic?

Ever killed a boss and realized that you (or your raid) doesn't actually need any items from it?
Yeah, killing bosses feels cool and all, but you still want some tangible reward.

There's a difference between helping players to accomplish something and just giving them what they get for accomplishing that.

Raiding is about killing bosses.

Yeah, let's remove any gear from raids and see what happens, by your logic, this wouldn't affect people's motivation to raid at all.

The point is, progression is an important element of this type of RPG, it's what drives this game.

The entire problem is just, this type of change undermines this progression, efficient catch up is fine and all, the issues come from the fact that you're feeling like an idiot by putting additional effort into if you could just wait until Blizzard kicks in the catch up and you can get the same reward at a fraction of the time.

Previously, this happened only rarely, like new expansion releases, even just a new raid didn't mean some Daily quest would give loot close to heroic items.

If you're one of those scrubs that only cares about gear you wouldn't raid at all.

This change doesn't affect my main character in any shape or form.
And to be honest, if i'm the playing the game solely for gear, i would've left after the introduction of War / Titanforging.
Let alone the introduction of personal loot.

The people that have hit their skill cap are the ones this hurts.

I think it hurts those that care about their progression.
I mean the point is, why invest a modicum of time into the game if Blizzard just offers equivalent in like three months from a way easier source with less time investment?

Expansion releases were rare enough to not trigger this feeling, but if this happens within a single year multiple times, you just nuke any sort of feeling of making progress - because that progress feels meaningless within months due the rewards being offered from a far easier source.

These bumps might briefly help them, but they fall right back in the same trap/cycle again.

Presumably one of the reason why Blizzard released progressive nerfs for raids originally, which didn't affect gearing progression but allowed people to overcome walls.

[Benedictu]

This is why raider.io needs to go, because a healthy and thriving game needs to encourage people to help new players. The game doesn't need selfish efficiency whores who play purely to improve their own character, stand on the backs of others' work, and put others down.

The dumpster fire that was Guild Perks completely demolished what a guild was and thought of to be permanently. I think people forget that, especially as a new player, you need a guild that will run things with you. You need to make actual friends with people in game to expect to consistently run high-level things as a new, undergeared, or inexperienced player. Raider.io is nothing new. Before that it was Gearscore. Remove it and someone will just make something else.

People who have Mythic+ on farm have absolutely no incentive to take someone who is unprepared on a PUG.

[kamuimac]

well warfonts dont need ilvl buff, they already give 400 ilvl.. also there is a world boss that can give you 400 ilvl item as well

there is also titanforging and warforging.. so with moderate luck you can be 400 ilvl(heroic raid lvl) in less than a month after this bump..

only if you are already 390. then sure .

but if you are like 370 it will take you months to get to overall 400 itlv .

[Tweedzz]

yeah, have you tried helping people? they dont want to listen and call you angry for just pointing out that they're doing something wrong

i leveled from 20 to 120, did like 40 dungeons along the way and out of 40 dungeons in like 20 of them people were doing something wrong and maybe 2 out of 20 times people listened to what i had to say

Oh man ain’t that the truth. It is rare to find someone that actually listens to advice these days. I figure leveling dungeons are there to help you learn but so many people would rather yell at each other than learn to play better.

Heck, I have been kicked from a dungeon after offering someone a tip lol. Guess they felt threatened?

[Craaazyyy]

only if you are already 390. then sure .

but if you are like 370 it will take you months to get to overall 400 itlv .

what months? i have 3 characters that have like 2 days played combined and all are 390+(warrior is almost 400) without doing any dungeons or raids.. if you get lucky with drops early on then its a cakewalk towards 390+

i leveled to 120 in january and stopped playing like maybe 1.5 months(March 10th is when my sub ran out iirc) ago and i wasnt even doing warfront/world boss every week.. same with incursions and daily wq chests etc.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

So much content just trivialized.

[Linkedblade]

Crucible of Storms releasing, time to increase emissary rewards to 395/400.




So Blizzard is saying that the majority of players doesn't raid mythic, which means they are either entirely or mostly invalidating everything the majority did for the past 3 months.

This pretty much means: 1 week 3 months after raid release = 3 months of progressing multiple hours a week

Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?

Happens Every tier regardless

[TheRevenantHero]

Honestly, the reason that this is being implemented is so people can actually get gear instead of stagnating. There are so many groups in the LFG listings that expect you to have insane ilvls for things like normal and heroic that it's hard as fuck to actually experience the content or get gear. So I think this change is fine in light of all the people in LFG expecting pugs to carry them and their friends.

[varren]

Hasn't this been the system since at least wrath? (a decade+). Not saying it's good, but there is no surprise to be had here.

[Craaazyyy]

Hasn't been the system since at least wrath? (a decade+). Not saying it's good, but there is no surprise to be had here.

yeah its been similar since ToC.. its just that you at least needed to raid to get decent gear, now you can just be afk

[Benedictu]

it's hard as fuck to actually experience the content or get gear..

Is it though? If your goal is non-LFG raiding, are you in a guild that raids? There's a variety of casual guilds on any server that accommodates most any ilvls and don't have a strict schedule.

[chrisnumbers]

Imagine queueing for a random dungeon and everyone still has ilvl 300 gear or whatever you got at the start of the expansion. I'd rather they were a little more geared.

[Zyky]

Something like this should never happen. Never. They should just release raids bump mythic+ and thats it. Hope you understand that this gear isnt cathup for 8.2 raid. This increase is here for non raiders for sake of their progression even when those people doesnt need such gear anyway. This is not catch up for 8.2 raid. 8.2 will have its own itemlvl spike when new patch will be released.

Way to repeat a mute point 3 times in 3 sentences. This is a SMALL jump that happened for the 8.1.5 raid, it's really not that big of a deal and you're literally whining about something that's not even comparable to M+ or raiding, it's quite petty.

[Puri]

They did when 8.1 hit, they will most likely do it again when 8.2 hits. M+0 will then drop 400 gear, and M+10 will drop whatever item level Heroic raid gear is for 8.2 with weekly chest gear piece of Mythic quality.

When that happens we will also see the jump of WQ to 400 gear and emissary gear will be 425.

After all, you don't want people to have to actually play the content to gear up when you can just hand it out to literally everyone so gear no longer feels like a reward or an accomplishment.

Well, yes, that's to be expected. But the whole itemlevel increases all over the game, and you get the same reward for completing a m+10 dungeon as you get for completing four world quests, then obviously something is not right. So simply put, the raid gets a 5 (or rather 5 to 10) level increase, so I expect m+ getting a 5+ level increase (accordingly with adjusting the difficulty), too.

[Alvito]

Ever killed a boss and realized that you (or your raid) doesn't actually need any items from it?
Yeah, killing bosses feels cool and all, but you still want some tangible reward.

There's a difference between helping players to accomplish something and just giving them what they get for accomplishing that.



Yeah, let's remove any gear from raids and see what happens, by your logic, this wouldn't affect people's motivation to raid at all.

The point is, progression is an important element of this type of RPG, it's what drives this game.

The entire problem is just, this type of change undermines this progression, efficient catch up is fine and all, the issues come from the fact that you're feeling like an idiot by putting additional effort into if you could just wait until Blizzard kicks in the catch up and you can get the same reward at a fraction of the time.

Previously, this happened only rarely, like new expansion releases, even just a new raid didn't mean some Daily quest would give loot close to heroic items.



This change doesn't affect my main character in any shape or form.
And to be honest, if i'm the playing the game solely for gear, i would've left after the introduction of War / Titanforging.
Let alone the introduction of personal loot.



I think it hurts those that care about their progression.
I mean the point is, why invest a modicum of time into the game if Blizzard just offers equivalent in like three months from a way easier source with less time investment?

Expansion releases were rare enough to not trigger this feeling, but if this happens within a single year multiple times, you just nuke any sort of feeling of making progress - because that progress feels meaningless within months due the rewards being offered from a far easier source.



Presumably one of the reason why Blizzard released progressive nerfs for raids originally, which didn't affect gearing progression but allowed people to overcome walls.

There is certainly an issue with how rapidly people might replace gear, we say this when they added the new ring on Azerite gear. Once they did that lower item level gear with the extra ring was better than the high level gear without it in many cases. So instead of us slowly going from gear from patch to patch it was in the length or a week or 2. This is also hits people harder that are used to farming for their tier gear for 2 or 4 sets for a few weeks to swap 2 or 4 items on at the same time and holding on to their older gear until they can do that. Luckily this tiny item level jump isn't very big and in most cases wont be noticed by people at all. The only big jump is the azerite gear going to 400 for some folks, but that will be few and far between and 400 azerite isn't exactly all that high now much less down the line.