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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by kubaje View Post
    Well, if you raided mythic, you did that to have a 10-15 ilvl advantage over people who are now getting their welfare items.

    According to Blizzard 30 ilvl difference are a significant increase in Power and 15 not being enough, which means people are spending around 12 hours of pure raiding time (+ the time it takes to farm gold/consumables for mythic raiding), only to have an insignificant advantage over those who barely play the game.

    That is for sure great game design.
    If you raided mythic, you would know gear is a tool and not something there just to make yourself look better than others.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    If you raided mythic, you would know gear is a tool and not something there just to make yourself look better than others.
    Dude, you're not in the position to tell me what has to be fun for me.

    Yes, I did raid pretty hardcore. When you're raiding hardcore (or your guild is good enough for you to expect to clear the content rather quickly), gear becomes less important, because you know you will get it at some point. Less important, not irrelevant. Ofc I want to have the best trinkets, best sets and weapons. Anyone claiming otherwise is just lying. There are people who care more than others but that's not for you to decide if it's wrong or not.

    When I play for world ranks, the rank is my primary motivation to raid. When I don't, the only motivation can be the loot. There is nothing satisfying killing a boss with a pug as world rank 30 million.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    In 2004 it was fun. Because it was "new". Now it's just a pure waste of time. But you know some people have endless amounts and this somehow brings them satisfaction versus actual endgame content so to each their own. But predicting the downfall of retail WoW? LOL. Your same prediction has been happening after every single major content patch, expansion or new game that is about to be released. The forum is less than 1/2 of 1% of the playerbase. The casuals who never read this website just keep playing.
    If it's a "pure waste of time", why do you suppose Blizzard is putting the money and manpower behind it? Why do you think they would commit to this?

    Because your assessment is wrong. It may not be something YOU want too play, just like I cannot stand what WoW has become... but there are players for both for sure.

    To say modern WoW isn't hurting is simply wrong. Just play the game and go out into the open world. Even with CRZ cranked to 11... you rarely see anyone.. and if you do, it's nearlly always from some other server. I occasionally watch some streamer/youtube content providers and when they re playing it... it truly is a ghost town.

    Classic, i suspect, will be bustling with people on the SAME server as you... a community.

    As far as "endgame"? BfA is in a horrible place for endgame. Yeah there are raids... 4 difficulties in fact. And dungeons... 4 difficulties of that with one being infinitely growing.

    So what? The rewards are boring, tier is gone, once you've seen LFR the rest is just repetitive nonsense made artificially "harder". And leveling? Is a joke. No danger, no challenge... pull have the map... absolute joke. And the 10 levels form 110 to 120? Just a few hours. LOL So you get to that boring endgam faster.

    Blizzard is so out of touch now... they cannot find their way home. The only reason Classic will success is that Ion can't screw it up.

    So here's what we'll do... we'll wait til Classic is released. You play live, and I'll play Classic. It really is as simple as that.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Then i don't get why you are complaining, the game is perfect for you if you just want to do nothing a get a random item per day, instead of doing raids or M+
    Because i'm having WoD flashbacks where you can just sit in your Garrison and also get geared by the Mission table, provided you can wait a bit.
    And it's not like Emissaries are that different on that front, except they deliver loot more often.

  5. #485
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Wanna know what Legion did right? They gave a balance in the armor. They boosted up M+ Armor sets by rank, separated Legion Raid armor in a balanced way thanks to Warforging and Titanforging actually finding ways to do good shit for once. Meaning, in LFR, the max gear they can hit is around Base Normal level, while with Normal, it caps to near Heroic level, hence progressing the player to reach Heroic levels of gear progression, which also sets players to prep themselves both physically and mentally for heroic raid, and then mythic raiding. You were progressing.

    Here, idek what they're doing here. At one point, you get gear that's below normal difficulty, and then the next, you get gear that's FAR above that of even Heroic.

    Okay then...

  6. #486
    Ok so the new updated gear for WQs and Emissaries is live, and I did not notice any difference. My main is iLvl 406, so obviously this isn't meant for that player, but I have a bunch of level 120's around the i350 to i365 range, and I ran WQ's last night, and got ZERO i370 gear, and still getting the same old i355 or so gear.

    I thought I was supposed to be getting i370 from World Quests now? And that Emissaries would be giving me i395 ? Not for me at least. Still the same old lower iLvl gear.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    Ok so the new updated gear for WQs and Emissaries is live, and I did not notice any difference. My main is iLvl 406, so obviously this isn't meant for that player, but I have a bunch of level 120's around the i350 to i365 range, and I ran WQ's last night, and got ZERO i370 gear, and still getting the same old i355 or so gear.

    I thought I was supposed to be getting i370 from World Quests now? And that Emissaries would be giving me i395 ? Not for me at least. Still the same old lower iLvl gear.
    The scaling still works the same way it did before, just the maximum iLvl the rewards can scale up to increased. So to see the higher iLvl gear as rewards, your character's iLvl needs to go up.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    The scaling still works the same way it did before, just the maximum iLvl the rewards can scale up to increased. So to see the higher iLvl gear as rewards, your character's iLvl needs to go up.
    this + 370 is not guaranteed in all quests - people will see a lot of 360 too and just a few 370

  9. #489
    The Lightbringer crakerjack's Avatar
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    Because it's all about the process of obtaining the gear. WQ's are absolutely boring. I'd rather sit in raid and do fun/engaging bosses than tickle my own taint because there ain't much else to do while mindlessly doing WQ's.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  10. #490
    Legendary! Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    If it's a "pure waste of time", why do you suppose Blizzard is putting the money and manpower behind it? Why do you think they would commit to this?

    Because your assessment is wrong. It may not be something YOU want too play, just like I cannot stand what WoW has become... but there are players for both for sure.

    To say modern WoW isn't hurting is simply wrong. Just play the game and go out into the open world. Even with CRZ cranked to 11... you rarely see anyone.. and if you do, it's nearlly always from some other server. I occasionally watch some streamer/youtube content providers and when they re playing it... it truly is a ghost town.

    Classic, i suspect, will be bustling with people on the SAME server as you... a community.

    As far as "endgame"? BfA is in a horrible place for endgame. Yeah there are raids... 4 difficulties in fact. And dungeons... 4 difficulties of that with one being infinitely growing.

    So what? The rewards are boring, tier is gone, once you've seen LFR the rest is just repetitive nonsense made artificially "harder". And leveling? Is a joke. No danger, no challenge... pull have the map... absolute joke. And the 10 levels form 110 to 120? Just a few hours. LOL So you get to that boring endgam faster.

    Blizzard is so out of touch now... they cannot find their way home. The only reason Classic will success is that Ion can't screw it up.

    So here's what we'll do... we'll wait til Classic is released. You play live, and I'll play Classic. It really is as simple as that.
    Their full development team is working on BFA. They have a small team working on re-engineering classic to work in 2019. It's all systems design and not content which is the bulk of all design.

    The game is boring because it's 15 years old. You'll never get that new feeling again, ever. Classic will wear off in less than a month as well for the majority. Once you run out of things to do you'll be saying "Why is there no content Blizzard? We've done this same stuff 15 years ago on multiple characters."
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  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Their full development team is working on BFA. They have a small team working on re-engineering classic to work in 2019. It's all systems design and not content which is the bulk of all design.

    The game is boring because it's 15 years old. You'll never get that new feeling again, ever. Classic will wear off in less than a month as well for the majority. Once you run out of things to do you'll be saying "Why is there no content Blizzard? We've done this same stuff 15 years ago on multiple characters."
    You are completely missing what made Vanilla magical. You are wrong, plain and simple. The existence of private servers for YEARS proves that people don't mind repeating GOOD content. And now that it is legit and supported by Blizzard? It's going to be wildly popular.

    Again my post said "If it's a waste of time" why would Blizzard spend any reviving it? You will soon see why...

  12. #492
    The Patient
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    Blizzard invalidated every equipment I collected in vanilla once I went through the dark portal. Everything you do is only worth something until the next big patch. That the nature of the game.

  13. #493
    Casual players gear up alts since a few months with just a few M+ runs (1-2 days) to get 400+ ilvl and just restrain the playtime to the weekly-10 to get easy over 410+ ilvl with minimal playtime.

    The ilvl changes dont even come close to what you could do since months without even touching raids/pvp/worldquests.

    Are you guys even playing the game or just complaining about the most pointless patch note changes?
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  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    You are completely missing what made Vanilla magical. You are wrong, plain and simple.
    How do you know exactly why? So the fact it was the most casual MMO at the time with a know brand behind had nothing to with the initial success?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    The existence of private servers for YEARS proves that people don't mind repeating GOOD content. And now that it is legit and supported by Blizzard? It's going to be wildly popular.
    Where these private servers free? If so, could that not be a contributing factor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    Again my post said "If it's a waste of time" why would Blizzard spend any reviving it? You will soon see why...
    Blizzard probably see a possible financial case for its revival. After all, I suspect many of the infrastructure are in place. They have the code already. In a sense, they borrowing or sharing what is already for their other games. So the investment is relatively small.

    It may be financial viable and stable for them to do so. Besides, WoW is the not first game they are reviving so it is not an entirely new thing from Blizzard.

  15. #495
    The true problem with fast and higher level equipping of gear for casuals is that casuals can't do high-level mythic pluses, raiding, arenas, or battlegrounds.

    Which means... they spend their time in groups ganking wqs and mythic plus entrances, etc. And worse, are given quests that then reward them, wait for it, with more higher-level gear.

    If it was one-on-one, this wouldn't matter. But as it is usually two groups of 4-5 at the same time, or a raid group of up to 40, allowing them to have gear in the 400-410 range which is then used against 410-425 geared players (only out to enter mythics or complete wqs to increase their neck level for further progression) who have invested a great deal of time and effort into the game only to be ganked by mob groups is unacceptable and out of this game's focus and scope.

    Yes, Blizz needs to make these casuals happy as they pay the bills and this is an easy no effort or creativity solution, and yes sociopaths get off on ganking the outnumbered and helpless and feel powerful swarming a higher health player, but it is certainly not conducive to any supposed class fantasy or hero ideal.

    If this was a sandbox game, it would be acceptable and expected.

    Creative solutions would be to make the world bosses drop higher-level gear than ganking other players. Or have daily events (invasions?) that do the same. Or making the weekly world pvp quest only work if you are one-on-one pvping and get the kill (not in a party or raid group). Or just make gear scale greater when entering pvp so that a truly heroic player could take down a swarm of wannabe gankers.

    But Blizz clearly has no vision for the future of WoW and is simply reacting to everything and implementing ideas and changes on whims (someone on the dev team read an article or googled something or saw a writeup of a new game and pitched it at a meeting).

    Short-term tactics to make the accounting department happy with no long-term coherent evergreen (true profit model) strategy.

    Blizz is piecing together a frankenstein creation made of one offs scavenged from other more creative ideas and the whole is quickly and continually becoming less than the parts.
    Last edited by Druantis; 2019-04-25 at 07:43 PM.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    You are completely missing what made Vanilla magical. You are wrong, plain and simple. The existence of private servers for YEARS proves that people don't mind repeating GOOD content. And now that it is legit and supported by Blizzard? It's going to be wildly popular.

    Again my post said "If it's a waste of time" why would Blizzard spend any reviving it? You will soon see why...
    If I thought you were going to shut up once Classic comes out I would be happy. But you won't. You'll talk about how Ion screwed up the launch with some absurd theory of yours to explain why there aren't millions of people playing Classic.

    Vanilla was a lot like the original Star Wars. Looked at with a critical eye it was pretty shit but people didn't know any better and it was all we had .... and it did open our minds to something different. What carries it now is just nostalgia. The PvE was garbage and the PvP was hardly any better. It wasn't all bad, or worse than the modern game, but it was definitely no utopia.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by kubaje View Post
    Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?
    Well, since it’s just a game my assumption would be that people who raid are doing it because they find it fun. WoW has been around long enough for everyone to know that gear WILL BE REPLACED (so don’t grow attached to it). If you’re putting yourself through raids that you don’t enjoy just for the gear then you’re doing it wrong.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    If I thought you were going to shut up once Classic comes out I would be happy. But you won't. You'll talk about how Ion screwed up the launch with some absurd theory of yours to explain why there aren't millions of people playing Classic.

    Vanilla was a lot like the original Star Wars. Looked at with a critical eye it was pretty shit but people didn't know any better and it was all we had .... and it did open our minds to something different. What carries it now is just nostalgia. The PvE was garbage and the PvP was hardly any better. It wasn't all bad, or worse than the modern game, but it was definitely no utopia.
    Ion doesn't have jack squat to do with Classic. He is not making ANY decisions for the game at all. You seem to want Classic to do badly... and that has to be related to jealously about how excited people are about it.

    Think about it... to be truly excited and hyped to play a game. That's something people haven't felt for years with modern WoW. I really think you should give it a try... you are missing out on an amazing experience...

    But this thread is about how modern WoW is having it's content invalidated. And Blizzard really is consistently doing just that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    How do you know exactly why? So the fact it was the most casual MMO at the time with a know brand behind had nothing to with the initial success?



    Where these private servers free? If so, could that not be a contributing factor?



    Blizzard probably see a possible financial case for its revival. After all, I suspect many of the infrastructure are in place. They have the code already. In a sense, they borrowing or sharing what is already for their other games. So the investment is relatively small.

    It may be financial viable and stable for them to do so. Besides, WoW is the not first game they are reviving so it is not an entirely new thing from Blizzard.
    The fact that Vanilla grew from 300,000 at launch to about 8 million subscribers in 2 years time. Then managed to grow to almost 12 million players during the next 4 years. It's common sense really.

    I'm sure some people played private because of it's "price"... but those 280,000+ petition signers? They wanted to pay for a Blizzard supported Classic.

    Interesting how that's just about the same number that bought it originally at launch. Can and does history repeat itself? We shall see.


    I agree 100%... the ONLY reason Blizzard would do it is to make money. And not "maybe".. but they have runt he numbers and it' a no brainer after that many people signed a petition that it will make a LOT more money than it costs to revive it.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    If you raided mythic, you would know gear is a tool and not something there just to make yourself look better than others.
    Oh right not we are supostu play rpg game right? Do you know what rpgs are about? Core aspect of anu rpg is gear and chatacter progression. No gear isnt jusyt tool. Grtting gear in rpg is part of what makes rpg games fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Well, since it’s just a game my assumption would be that people who raid are doing it because they find it fun. WoW has been around long enough for everyone to know that gear WILL BE REPLACED (so don’t grow attached to it). If you’re putting yourself through raids that you don’t enjoy just for the gear then you’re doing it wrong.
    Yet 99% of people would insta quit playing game if gear would be removed from the game. Sorry to shatter your dreams but people actualy keep playing game only for gear. Progressing your character is what is fun about rpg games. Have you notice how long queue times LFR have? Just like in WoD where gear from lfr was total garbage people stop doing lfr when it had no gear rewards. You do content for story once then it is all about gear and nothing els.

  20. #500
    To be fair they have already toned it down since season 1, invasions were a daily piece of heroic loot back then.
    Reading over these threads in MMO and Bnet forum it always looks like Heroic/Mythic raiders are complaining even though they are least affected.
    In a few weeks time we will again have:

    Mythic raiders > Heroic raiders/M+'ers > everybody else

    Having 90%+ of the WoW population within 5 ilvls of eachother doesn't look like a healthy mmorpg to me. Normal raids and low mythic+ keys are completely worthless when looking at time investment + difficulty versus reward. Indirectly this affects the higher difficulties as people are just getting the gear and no experience, just look at how many raiderio complain threads have arisen since BFA.

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