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  1. #501
    I dont play bfa but the last time i did raids and obtained gear i did so because i found it a fun thing to do.
    What happens in 12 weeks really never mattered to me because i had fun for those 12 weeks obtaining gear and progressing through raids.

    But i am not a fan of this approach where only the latest raid is relevant...
    Gearing up used to be a lot more fun for me when you actually had to do many different things to gear up including doing some older raids (within same expansion).

    edit: people saying that classic is a waste of time are a bit silly.
    Just looking at my friend list i got 0 players who are interested in playing BFA and 10 players who can't wait for classic and are reading guides and watching videos about it and discussing it on a daily basis.

    Classic isn't meant to replace modern wow - i think blizz made classic "free" with the wow subscription because they hope some might actually try the modern wow when they get a bit tired of classic, which is a rather sad state of affairs.
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2019-04-26 at 03:06 AM.
    BfA = Worst product ever made by Blizzard.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    Classic isn't meant to replace modern wow - i think blizz made classic "free" with the wow subscription because they hope some might actually try the modern wow when they get a bit tired of classic, which is a rather sad state of affairs.
    This is exactly how OSRS is, helps encourage cross-play. RS3 has 1/4th the population of OSRS at any given time. I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt Classic / past versions of WoW will ever overtake retail by themselves, at least anytime soon. In combination? Maybe. A lot of people really like Classic - WotLK.
    "Your name was stolen? I see... Well, I guess that happens from time to time..."


  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Yet 99% of people would insta quit playing game if gear would be removed from the game. Sorry to shatter your dreams but people actualy keep playing game only for gear. Progressing your character is what is fun about rpg games. Have you notice how long queue times LFR have? Just like in WoD where gear from lfr was total garbage people stop doing lfr when it had no gear rewards. You do content for story once then it is all about gear and nothing els.
    Speak for yourself. Gear matters to some extent (partially as a reward, mostly as a tool), but I guarantee you that most people who still play do enjoy at least some of the actual gameplay. Maybe not fun enough on its own if the gear were completely taken away, but I was referring specifically to the morons that spend hours and hours and hours of their free time doing something they absolutely detest just for the gear. If you play just for the gear then you're an idiot, plain and simple. If you've been playing since vanilla you've banked, vendored, or DE'ed 99% of your "fun". Congrats.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    We are not arguing about the numbers or the growth, rather than cause. So it is common sense. Meaning? It was the best MMO available? Most casual friendly MMO? There are be many reason. Infact in most likely many reason that just happen that multiplied the effect.



    So 280 000 is now considered a lot for Classic but it is a sign of doom for retail.

    .
    2 things - but for me personaly in 2004 WoW was the most graphicaly advanced mmorpg of that time - compare it to other games of that time aka MU / Ragnarok inline / Ultima / Everquest/Lineage and there was no other game like wow - this was clear winner and reason why i was hooked imidiately

    2nd - petition was open so all people had to do is signe 10 times each and suddenly 28k could make 280k votes - its meaningless statisticaly .

    i literaly cannot wait for the shitshow on forums once vanilla will be open and people who never played it will relaise how garbage it is now in 2019

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    I dont play bfa but the last time i did raids and obtained gear i did so because i found it a fun thing to do.
    What happens in 12 weeks really never mattered to me because i had fun for those 12 weeks obtaining gear and progressing through raids.

    But i am not a fan of this approach where only the latest raid is relevant...
    Gearing up used to be a lot more fun for me when you actually had to do many different things to gear up including doing some older raids (within same expansion).

    edit: people saying that classic is a waste of time are a bit silly.
    Just looking at my friend list i got 0 players who are interested in playing BFA and 10 players who can't wait for classic and are reading guides and watching videos about it and discussing it on a daily basis.

    Classic isn't meant to replace modern wow - i think blizz made classic "free" with the wow subscription because they hope some might actually try the modern wow when they get a bit tired of classic, which is a rather sad state of affairs.
    im sure you will then love vanilal when each week for the end of time you will have to run old shit like MC and BWL just to attune new raiders for naxx.

    im sure it will be glorius experience and so satysfying for you

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    sure. 250k might be break even point to run the game. What applies to Classic could also apply to current WoW although I suspect they will have to scale back some operations.
    250k was number for returning the investment into couple years of creating wow.

    with legacy they can keep skeleton screw , they already confirmed there will be next to no GMs to help with disputes etc so it will be just basic costs since its retail which payed for recreation of classic.

    they will break even easily with 5-10k subs a month because after initial rush they will only need 4-5 servers to keep up those 10-20k people playing.

  5. #505
    @kamuimac

    Classic raiding will actually be a better and more satisfying experience than what BfA offers - log in once a week for a raid... or don't at all because the classes are boring shite.

    Classic is definitely archaic and grindy but it sure as hell aint boring and shallow (the worst a game can be).
    BfA = Worst product ever made by Blizzard.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    [/URL]Classic raiding will actually be a better and more satisfying experience than what BfA offers - log in once a week for a raid... or don't at all because the classes are boring shite.
    Classic raiding = spamming shadow bolt. 1 spell. Super interesting.

  7. #507
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
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    The mega super boss this expansion is the Keep Our Raid Together boss.

    Nothing they've done is making our raid team log in and keeping them logged in. Also if you actually try to progress Mythic raid with pugs, let me know how it works out for you then get back to me. Let me know if your raid leader stays sane or if you even have one.

    They have to release 10 man mythic or flex Mythic or this game is going to die, period. On to Classic I 'spose. (them giving up on retail with the announcement of Classic is turning to be true)

    What happens in 12 weeks really never mattered to me because i had fun for those 12 weeks obtaining gear and progressing through raids.
    You can tell by the spoiler era we live in that people don't actually care about the journey anymore. They want a contrived build up and then they want something epic afterwards. If you spoil the epic for them, they no longer care about the journey. I'm not sure what you call these people, adrenaline junkies? I dunno.
    Last edited by msdos; 2019-04-26 at 09:35 AM.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    Classic raiding = spamming shadow bolt. 1 spell. Super interesting.
    That's more often than not all you do in Path of Exile. You have one main damage ability, yet it is still the best aRPG on the market right now. Why do so many people always associate 1 button spam to be boring?

  9. #509
    Warchief msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    That's more often than not all you do in Path of Exile. You have one main damage ability, yet it is still the best aRPG on the market right now. Why do so many people always associate 1 button spam to be boring?
    I was thinking about this yesterday because of a vanilla PVP discussion I was having. Did anyone back then actually care that we were only pressing one button? A lot of the encounters back then were constant. I'll use Razorgore as an example: you have to be running the entire time on that fight, you cannot stop whatsoever until phase 1 is over. So as a shaman on that fight, I'm dropping earth bind, frost shocking, off heals, etc.

    See back then, your toolkit was enormous, so you had moments where you didn't need to be mashing your rotation. Healers had moments where they could use downranked heals.
    If you look at today, you straight up spam your rotation non-stop the entire encounter or you're a failure lol, basically.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by kubaje View Post
    Crucible of Storms releasing, time to increase emissary rewards to 395/400.




    So Blizzard is saying that the majority of players doesn't raid mythic, which means they are either entirely or mostly invalidating everything the majority did for the past 3 months.

    This pretty much means: 1 week 3 months after raid release = 3 months of progressing multiple hours a week

    Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?
    Emmm this practice has been around for a long time in WoW. This is no suprise. Game need to flow wht do not ppl understand that ? They have to boost content. If you jump in late state of expansion its pretty undoable to reach endgame content without gear. So basic gear is little bit closer to player. If max ilvl grows why do not grow basic ilvl?

    PPL didnt remember when they gave almost free warlord/marshal sets at the end of vanilla ? :P
    Last edited by czarek; 2019-04-26 at 11:31 AM.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by kubaje View Post
    Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?
    Because raiding is the only thing that is still fun for me this expansion.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    It is crazy how some people beliave that its elites what doesnt like this when in fact it is actual casual majority what hate this change. This people got their progression rip apart not mythic raiders. Some people live in such delusinal state they think casuals enyojs getting free gear for doing nothing and it keeps them playing rofl. No casual players will not keep playing your game just becouse you will rain welfare gear on them it actualy makes them quit.
    Lies im still here a casual more loot please!

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    Classic raiding = spamming shadow bolt. 1 spell. Super interesting.
    and bosses with 1 raid mechanic .

    so deep and satysfying

  14. #514
    Bloodsail Admiral Chemii's Avatar
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    I've come to realise that some people will still be garbage at the game regardless if they have equal item level to me, so you shouldn't stress about welfare epics. Titanforging and gem slots have seen to the decimation of real item level prestige anyway. This is why people are not re-clearing end game bosses, even in the best guilds.

    I mean why bother trying so hard to get nothing in return.

  15. #515
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=291392/...s-and-speculat

    look like in 8.2 raids wont be relevant from the beggiing

    and you fools thought its a mistake what blizzard did 3 days ago ^^

    like i said before those are deliberate changes with deep deep consequences for game in future

  16. #516
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=291392/...s-and-speculat

    Fuck sake lol it's like they don't learn......

    The upgrade bit? Fine. But the armor tokens yet again random. So basically if you spend time getting the base token and it rolls crap stats then you have to keep at it....

    This doesn't solve the main issue. RNG on top of RNG.

    And it says a lot if we can get endgame level gears this early on to be honest. Because even in 7.2 we only got 850 ilvl stuff or w/e from Broken Shore and hell even 910 from Argus. It's never been this close to the cap so I'm guessing they need to try more carrots on the stick to keep people subbed or to come back.

    Which yet again creates the original problem of why the majority left. Because of this crappy "carrot on stick" design intent they seem to have.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=291392/...s-and-speculat

    Fuck sake lol it's like they don't learn......

    The upgrade bit? Fine. But the armor tokens yet again random. So basically if you spend time getting the base token and it rolls crap stats then you have to keep at it....

    This doesn't solve the main issue. RNG on top of RNG.

    And it says a lot if we can get endgame level gears this early on to be honest. Because even in 7.2 we only got 850 ilvl stuff or w/e from Broken Shore and hell even 910 from Argus. It's never been this close to the cap so I'm guessing they need to try more carrots on the stick to keep people subbed or to come back.

    Which yet again creates the original problem of why the majority left. Because of this crappy "carrot on stick" design intent they seem to have.
    or they see its working perfeckly and thats why they put this system into game even earlier

    why you are so dissapointed - didnt people fight for badge system for so long - well here you have effectively badges .

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=291392/...s-and-speculat

    Fuck sake lol it's like they don't learn......

    The upgrade bit? Fine. But the armor tokens yet again random. So basically if you spend time getting the base token and it rolls crap stats then you have to keep at it....

    This doesn't solve the main issue. RNG on top of RNG.

    And it says a lot if we can get endgame level gears this early on to be honest. Because even in 7.2 we only got 850 ilvl stuff or w/e from Broken Shore and hell even 910 from Argus. It's never been this close to the cap so I'm guessing they need to try more carrots on the stick to keep people subbed or to come back.

    Which yet again creates the original problem of why the majority left. Because of this crappy "carrot on stick" design intent they seem to have.
    "Speculation"
    "Yet to be determined"
    "We don't know"

    These are what your basing your whining on...

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    That's more often than not all you do in Path of Exile. You have one main damage ability, yet it is still the best aRPG on the market right now. Why do so many people always associate 1 button spam to be boring?
    Probably because it is. Poe and diablo and arpgs have the advantage of building your character for the 1 btn spam. Vanilla wow or even retail wow don't have that.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    We are not arguing about the numbers or the growth, rather than cause. So it is common sense. Meaning? It was the best MMO available? Most casual friendly MMO? There are be many reason. Infact in most likely many reason that just happen that multiplied the effect.

    So 280 000 is now considered a lot for Classic but it is a sign of doom for retail.

    I doubt it since some of the factors that contributed to that explosive no longer applies.

    Sure. 250k might be break even point to run the game. What applies to Classic could also apply to current WoW although I suspect they will have to scale back some operations.
    "We" aren't arguing. You are. Of course there are multiple reasons why Classic jumped from 300,000 to almost 8 million players in 2 years. Just there are multiple reasons why WoDmanaged to lose HALF their subs in the first 3 months. (And let's be honest it's very likely Legiona dn BfA performed similarly) For whatever reason... people keep coming back each expansion.. but leaving a few short months later. Could that be because they are wanting a more authentic experience to the one they once loved? Has game design philosophy changed much since Vanilla? Of course. For the better? Well again... Vanilla thru WotLK saw a constant rise ni subscribers.. and it's been down hill ever since.

    280,000 signatures on a petition MOST didn't even know about? Yes... it's significant. Retail losing HALF it's sub in the first 3-6 months? I don;t know if it spells "doom"... but it sure doesn't spell "growth". The game is in it's worst shape ever. With even those playing it lambasting it. The devout Blizzard supporters are even turning tail because they are vastly outnumbered by disgruntled players.

    You can doubt al you want... and yes some of the aspects that made it successful then are no longer in play... but there are new things in play... mostly the fact that people can;t stand BfA overall. These are the people that will rush to play Classic just like they rushed to play each expansion pack. But this time... it will be an enirely different experience than that of WoD, Legion and BfA.

    Like laying off 800 people? Like doing away with the employee bonus system? Sounds like scaling back to me.

    It's only a few more months before we see just how popular Classic is. Maybe it will flop... maybe it will do OK... maybe , just maybe, it will be a sleep success... just like it was in 2004. You should hope the latter... because it is the ONLY thing that can save WoW longterm.

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