Blizzard invalidating content once again

[Maudib]

Their full development team is working on BFA. They have a small team working on re-engineering classic to work in 2019. It's all systems design and not content which is the bulk of all design.

The game is boring because it's 15 years old. You'll never get that new feeling again, ever. Classic will wear off in less than a month as well for the majority. Once you run out of things to do you'll be saying "Why is there no content Blizzard? We've done this same stuff 15 years ago on multiple characters."

You are completely missing what made Vanilla magical. You are wrong, plain and simple. The existence of private servers for YEARS proves that people don't mind repeating GOOD content. And now that it is legit and supported by Blizzard? It's going to be wildly popular.

Again my post said "If it's a waste of time" why would Blizzard spend any reviving it? You will soon see why...

[Naramag]

Blizzard invalidated every equipment I collected in vanilla once I went through the dark portal. Everything you do is only worth something until the next big patch. That the nature of the game.

[Ange]

Casual players gear up alts since a few months with just a few M+ runs (1-2 days) to get 400+ ilvl and just restrain the playtime to the weekly-10 to get easy over 410+ ilvl with minimal playtime.

The ilvl changes dont even come close to what you could do since months without even touching raids/pvp/worldquests.

Are you guys even playing the game or just complaining about the most pointless patch note changes?

[Sansnom]

You are completely missing what made Vanilla magical. You are wrong, plain and simple.

How do you know exactly why? So the fact it was the most casual MMO at the time with a know brand behind had nothing to with the initial success?

The existence of private servers for YEARS proves that people don't mind repeating GOOD content. And now that it is legit and supported by Blizzard? It's going to be wildly popular.

Where these private servers free? If so, could that not be a contributing factor?

Again my post said "If it's a waste of time" why would Blizzard spend any reviving it? You will soon see why...

Blizzard probably see a possible financial case for its revival. After all, I suspect many of the infrastructure are in place. They have the code already. In a sense, they borrowing or sharing what is already for their other games. So the investment is relatively small.

It may be financial viable and stable for them to do so. Besides, WoW is the not first game they are reviving so it is not an entirely new thing from Blizzard.

[Druantis]

The true problem with fast and higher level equipping of gear for casuals is that casuals can't do high-level mythic pluses, raiding, arenas, or battlegrounds.

Which means... they spend their time in groups ganking wqs and mythic plus entrances, etc. And worse, are given quests that then reward them, wait for it, with more higher-level gear.

If it was one-on-one, this wouldn't matter. But as it is usually two groups of 4-5 at the same time, or a raid group of up to 40, allowing them to have gear in the 400-410 range which is then used against 410-425 geared players (only out to enter mythics or complete wqs to increase their neck level for further progression) who have invested a great deal of time and effort into the game only to be ganked by mob groups is unacceptable and out of this game's focus and scope.

Yes, Blizz needs to make these casuals happy as they pay the bills and this is an easy no effort or creativity solution, and yes sociopaths get off on ganking the outnumbered and helpless and feel powerful swarming a higher health player, but it is certainly not conducive to any supposed class fantasy or hero ideal.

If this was a sandbox game, it would be acceptable and expected.

Creative solutions would be to make the world bosses drop higher-level gear than ganking other players. Or have daily events (invasions?) that do the same. Or making the weekly world pvp quest only work if you are one-on-one pvping and get the kill (not in a party or raid group). Or just make gear scale greater when entering pvp so that a truly heroic player could take down a swarm of wannabe gankers.

But Blizz clearly has no vision for the future of WoW and is simply reacting to everything and implementing ideas and changes on whims (someone on the dev team read an article or googled something or saw a writeup of a new game and pitched it at a meeting).

Short-term tactics to make the accounting department happy with no long-term coherent evergreen (true profit model) strategy.

Blizz is piecing together a frankenstein creation made of one offs scavenged from other more creative ideas and the whole is quickly and continually becoming less than the parts.

[Trend]

You are completely missing what made Vanilla magical. You are wrong, plain and simple. The existence of private servers for YEARS proves that people don't mind repeating GOOD content. And now that it is legit and supported by Blizzard? It's going to be wildly popular.

Again my post said "If it's a waste of time" why would Blizzard spend any reviving it? You will soon see why...

If I thought you were going to shut up once Classic comes out I would be happy. But you won't. You'll talk about how Ion screwed up the launch with some absurd theory of yours to explain why there aren't millions of people playing Classic.

Vanilla was a lot like the original Star Wars. Looked at with a critical eye it was pretty shit but people didn't know any better and it was all we had .... and it did open our minds to something different. What carries it now is just nostalgia. The PvE was garbage and the PvP was hardly any better. It wasn't all bad, or worse than the modern game, but it was definitely no utopia.

[Adamas102]

Why would any sane person choose to actually raid and invest that much more time when they can get the same rewards 3 months later without any effort by doing trivial content?

Well, since it’s just a game my assumption would be that people who raid are doing it because they find it fun. WoW has been around long enough for everyone to know that gear WILL BE REPLACED (so don’t grow attached to it). If you’re putting yourself through raids that you don’t enjoy just for the gear then you’re doing it wrong.

[Maudib]

If I thought you were going to shut up once Classic comes out I would be happy. But you won't. You'll talk about how Ion screwed up the launch with some absurd theory of yours to explain why there aren't millions of people playing Classic.

Vanilla was a lot like the original Star Wars. Looked at with a critical eye it was pretty shit but people didn't know any better and it was all we had .... and it did open our minds to something different. What carries it now is just nostalgia. The PvE was garbage and the PvP was hardly any better. It wasn't all bad, or worse than the modern game, but it was definitely no utopia.

Ion doesn't have jack squat to do with Classic. He is not making ANY decisions for the game at all. You seem to want Classic to do badly... and that has to be related to jealously about how excited people are about it.

Think about it... to be truly excited and hyped to play a game. That's something people haven't felt for years with modern WoW. I really think you should give it a try... you are missing out on an amazing experience...

But this thread is about how modern WoW is having it's content invalidated. And Blizzard really is consistently doing just that.

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How do you know exactly why? So the fact it was the most casual MMO at the time with a know brand behind had nothing to with the initial success?



Where these private servers free? If so, could that not be a contributing factor?



Blizzard probably see a possible financial case for its revival. After all, I suspect many of the infrastructure are in place. They have the code already. In a sense, they borrowing or sharing what is already for their other games. So the investment is relatively small.

It may be financial viable and stable for them to do so. Besides, WoW is the not first game they are reviving so it is not an entirely new thing from Blizzard.

The fact that Vanilla grew from 300,000 at launch to about 8 million subscribers in 2 years time. Then managed to grow to almost 12 million players during the next 4 years. It's common sense really.

I'm sure some people played private because of it's "price"... but those 280,000+ petition signers? They wanted to pay for a Blizzard supported Classic.

Interesting how that's just about the same number that bought it originally at launch. Can and does history repeat itself? We shall see.


I agree 100%... the ONLY reason Blizzard would do it is to make money. And not "maybe".. but they have runt he numbers and it' a no brainer after that many people signed a petition that it will make a LOT more money than it costs to revive it.

[Elias01]

If you raided mythic, you would know gear is a tool and not something there just to make yourself look better than others.

Oh right not we are supostu play rpg game right? Do you know what rpgs are about? Core aspect of anu rpg is gear and chatacter progression. No gear isnt jusyt tool. Grtting gear in rpg is part of what makes rpg games fun.

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Well, since it’s just a game my assumption would be that people who raid are doing it because they find it fun. WoW has been around long enough for everyone to know that gear WILL BE REPLACED (so don’t grow attached to it). If you’re putting yourself through raids that you don’t enjoy just for the gear then you’re doing it wrong.

Yet 99% of people would insta quit playing game if gear would be removed from the game. Sorry to shatter your dreams but people actualy keep playing game only for gear. Progressing your character is what is fun about rpg games. Have you notice how long queue times LFR have? Just like in WoD where gear from lfr was total garbage people stop doing lfr when it had no gear rewards. You do content for story once then it is all about gear and nothing els.

[Trustworthy]

To be fair they have already toned it down since season 1, invasions were a daily piece of heroic loot back then.
Reading over these threads in MMO and Bnet forum it always looks like Heroic/Mythic raiders are complaining even though they are least affected.
In a few weeks time we will again have:

Mythic raiders > Heroic raiders/M+'ers > everybody else

Having 90%+ of the WoW population within 5 ilvls of eachother doesn't look like a healthy mmorpg to me. Normal raids and low mythic+ keys are completely worthless when looking at time investment + difficulty versus reward. Indirectly this affects the higher difficulties as people are just getting the gear and no experience, just look at how many raiderio complain threads have arisen since BFA.

[Sansnom]

The fact that Vanilla grew from 300,000 at launch to about 8 million subscribers in 2 years time. Then managed to grow to almost 12 million players during the next 4 years. It's common sense really.

We are not arguing about the numbers or the growth, rather than cause. So it is common sense. Meaning? It was the best MMO available? Most casual friendly MMO? There are be many reason. Infact in most likely many reason that just happen that multiplied the effect.

I'm sure some people played private because of it's "price"... but those 280,000+ petition signers? They wanted to pay for a Blizzard supported Classic.

So 280 000 is now considered a lot for Classic but it is a sign of doom for retail.

Interesting how that's just about the same number that bought it originally at launch. Can and does history repeat itself? We shall see.

I doubt it since some of the factors that contributed to that explosive no longer applies.

I agree 100%... the ONLY reason Blizzard would do it is to make money. And not "maybe".. but they have runt he numbers and it' a no brainer after that many people signed a petition that it will make a LOT more money than it costs to revive it.

Sure. 250k might be break even point to run the game. What applies to Classic could also apply to current WoW although I suspect they will have to scale back some operations.

[Aleksej89]

I dont play bfa but the last time i did raids and obtained gear i did so because i found it a fun thing to do.
What happens in 12 weeks really never mattered to me because i had fun for those 12 weeks obtaining gear and progressing through raids.

But i am not a fan of this approach where only the latest raid is relevant...
Gearing up used to be a lot more fun for me when you actually had to do many different things to gear up including doing some older raids (within same expansion).

edit: people saying that classic is a waste of time are a bit silly.
Just looking at my friend list i got 0 players who are interested in playing BFA and 10 players who can't wait for classic and are reading guides and watching videos about it and discussing it on a daily basis.

Classic isn't meant to replace modern wow - i think blizz made classic "free" with the wow subscription because they hope some might actually try the modern wow when they get a bit tired of classic, which is a rather sad state of affairs.

[PenguinChan]

Classic isn't meant to replace modern wow - i think blizz made classic "free" with the wow subscription because they hope some might actually try the modern wow when they get a bit tired of classic, which is a rather sad state of affairs.

This is exactly how OSRS is, helps encourage cross-play. RS3 has 1/4th the population of OSRS at any given time. I highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt Classic / past versions of WoW will ever overtake retail by themselves, at least anytime soon. In combination? Maybe. A lot of people really like Classic - WotLK.

[Adamas102]

Yet 99% of people would insta quit playing game if gear would be removed from the game. Sorry to shatter your dreams but people actualy keep playing game only for gear. Progressing your character is what is fun about rpg games. Have you notice how long queue times LFR have? Just like in WoD where gear from lfr was total garbage people stop doing lfr when it had no gear rewards. You do content for story once then it is all about gear and nothing els.

Speak for yourself. Gear matters to some extent (partially as a reward, mostly as a tool), but I guarantee you that most people who still play do enjoy at least some of the actual gameplay. Maybe not fun enough on its own if the gear were completely taken away, but I was referring specifically to the morons that spend hours and hours and hours of their free time doing something they absolutely detest just for the gear. If you play just for the gear then you're an idiot, plain and simple. If you've been playing since vanilla you've banked, vendored, or DE'ed 99% of your "fun". Congrats.

[kamuimac]

We are not arguing about the numbers or the growth, rather than cause. So it is common sense. Meaning? It was the best MMO available? Most casual friendly MMO? There are be many reason. Infact in most likely many reason that just happen that multiplied the effect.



So 280 000 is now considered a lot for Classic but it is a sign of doom for retail.

.

2 things - but for me personaly in 2004 WoW was the most graphicaly advanced mmorpg of that time - compare it to other games of that time aka MU / Ragnarok inline / Ultima / Everquest/Lineage and there was no other game like wow - this was clear winner and reason why i was hooked imidiately

2nd - petition was open so all people had to do is signe 10 times each and suddenly 28k could make 280k votes - its meaningless statisticaly .

i literaly cannot wait for the shitshow on forums once vanilla will be open and people who never played it will relaise how garbage it is now in 2019

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I dont play bfa but the last time i did raids and obtained gear i did so because i found it a fun thing to do.
What happens in 12 weeks really never mattered to me because i had fun for those 12 weeks obtaining gear and progressing through raids.

But i am not a fan of this approach where only the latest raid is relevant...
Gearing up used to be a lot more fun for me when you actually had to do many different things to gear up including doing some older raids (within same expansion).

edit: people saying that classic is a waste of time are a bit silly.
Just looking at my friend list i got 0 players who are interested in playing BFA and 10 players who can't wait for classic and are reading guides and watching videos about it and discussing it on a daily basis.

Classic isn't meant to replace modern wow - i think blizz made classic "free" with the wow subscription because they hope some might actually try the modern wow when they get a bit tired of classic, which is a rather sad state of affairs.

im sure you will then love vanilal when each week for the end of time you will have to run old shit like MC and BWL just to attune new raiders for naxx.

im sure it will be glorius experience and so satysfying for you

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sure. 250k might be break even point to run the game. What applies to Classic could also apply to current WoW although I suspect they will have to scale back some operations.

250k was number for returning the investment into couple years of creating wow.

with legacy they can keep skeleton screw , they already confirmed there will be next to no GMs to help with disputes etc so it will be just basic costs since its retail which payed for recreation of classic.

they will break even easily with 5-10k subs a month because after initial rush they will only need 4-5 servers to keep up those 10-20k people playing.

[Aleksej89]

@kamuimac

Classic raiding will actually be a better and more satisfying experience than what BfA offers - log in once a week for a raid... or don't at all because the classes are boring shite.

Classic is definitely archaic and grindy but it sure as hell aint boring and shallow (the worst a game can be).

[burek]

[/URL]Classic raiding will actually be a better and more satisfying experience than what BfA offers - log in once a week for a raid... or don't at all because the classes are boring shite.

Classic raiding = spamming shadow bolt. 1 spell. Super interesting.

[msdos]

The mega super boss this expansion is the Keep Our Raid Together boss.

Nothing they've done is making our raid team log in and keeping them logged in. Also if you actually try to progress Mythic raid with pugs, let me know how it works out for you then get back to me. Let me know if your raid leader stays sane or if you even have one.

They have to release 10 man mythic or flex Mythic or this game is going to die, period. On to Classic I 'spose. (them giving up on retail with the announcement of Classic is turning to be true)

What happens in 12 weeks really never mattered to me because i had fun for those 12 weeks obtaining gear and progressing through raids.

You can tell by the spoiler era we live in that people don't actually care about the journey anymore. They want a contrived build up and then they want something epic afterwards. If you spoil the epic for them, they no longer care about the journey. I'm not sure what you call these people, adrenaline junkies? I dunno.

[Qnubi]

Classic raiding = spamming shadow bolt. 1 spell. Super interesting.

That's more often than not all you do in Path of Exile. You have one main damage ability, yet it is still the best aRPG on the market right now. Why do so many people always associate 1 button spam to be boring?

[msdos]

That's more often than not all you do in Path of Exile. You have one main damage ability, yet it is still the best aRPG on the market right now. Why do so many people always associate 1 button spam to be boring?

I was thinking about this yesterday because of a vanilla PVP discussion I was having. Did anyone back then actually care that we were only pressing one button? A lot of the encounters back then were constant. I'll use Razorgore as an example: you have to be running the entire time on that fight, you cannot stop whatsoever until phase 1 is over. So as a shaman on that fight, I'm dropping earth bind, frost shocking, off heals, etc.

See back then, your toolkit was enormous, so you had moments where you didn't need to be mashing your rotation. Healers had moments where they could use downranked heals.
If you look at today, you straight up spam your rotation non-stop the entire encounter or you're a failure lol, basically.